David Norris (Independent)

I am glad to have the opportunity to take part in this debate. I had lunch yesterday with the former Commissioner, Mr. Pat Byrne. He reminded me that I had been invited some years ago to talk at an international convention on policing in Dublin Castle. I was invited in order to stir things up and he told me that I most certainly did. I woke them during the siesta slot because I spoke about the type of problems endemic not just in the Garda.

Part of what I said four or five years ago was fairly prophetic when I look at the report of the Morris tribunal. However, as Senator White said, we should not excoriate ourselves and think that our police force is particularly bad. Senator McHugh said that it was dangerous to suggest this is a Donegal phenomenon. However, the situation can arise if one is not always watchful which is why I support the Labour proposal rather than the Government amendment. I do not know why they could not be run together, because I also agree with most of the Government amendment although perhaps it could do something regarding committees and we would not have this divisive vote.

We all want to support the institution of the Garda while looking at the neglect of duty and the review of Garda procedures following the crimes and the tragedy that occurred to the McBrearty family. Many people do not understand why they could not have been given some comfort with regard to their fees. Everybody else seems to have had money thrown at them, including the legal profession. These people were forced into a situation where they had to defend themselves against accusations when they were framed by the forces of the State. After €1 million was spent, they could not get the comfort of being told they would be paid. There is something radically wrong in such a situation.

People did know. They must have known. Reports were made. There is ministerial and political responsibility and all parties should share this and look into their own hearts. The McBreartys were framed and ruined and there was no proper investigation of what turned out to be an accident. This man was unfortunately killed in a hit and run. However, no proper procedures were followed. Then came the idiotic and ludicrous planting of explosives which were manufactured in coffee grinders. Vincent Browne made a laugh out of the situation and in one way he was right. However, underneath that is something deeply tragic.

I agree with what Ms White said about Senator Higgins and Deputy Howlin. They should be protected because they were whistleblowers in a real and genuine sense and should not suffer any kind of punishment as a result. The Dean Lyons case was another dreadful situation, but his sister's rights have never been vindicated because there was no prosecution of the person who actually committed the crime. Here is an unresolved situation with no finality.

I am very grateful to be allowed to speak on this matter. People behaved badly and did wrong, but we should not be vicious in going after them. Some say their pensions should be taken away but what will they live on and what will their families do? I do not think this is right. We are always blowing about Christian values, but is it Christian to reduce them and throw them in the gutter?