Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

I was not going to speak on this matter until I read the Minister's script. Unlike Senator O'Toole, I admire it very much and find it comprehensive in its scope. I was involved with DIT for over five years and later in the Department of Public Enterprise when this idea was set up. It started as a visionary idea and I recall the it being mooted during the five years while I was Minister for Education although I cannot remember who was the spark behind it. The Minister does not say whose idea it was but perhaps she can enlighten us. I know the Taoiseach was very involved in it. There must be someone who decided one day that this was what would happen and that DIT would no longer have to exist on 11 acres, in 39 buildings on 30 sites.

Can one imagine trying to have an authoritative air about such a university? Can one imagine trying to keep track of professors, students, cleaners and administrators? We are all familiar with the various outposts including Kevin Street, Bolton Street and the college of marketing but the administrative burden of keeping track of them never struck me before.

Everybody likes to talk about the old universities. They like to talk about Queen Elizabeth and what she did for Trinity College. I am referring to the first Queen Elizabeth, not the present one. There is the influence of Cardinal Newman on UCD, now referred to as NUI, Dublin. DIT is an institution that has educated people for well over 100 years, a fine tradition of education.

I liked what Senator O'Toole said about apprenticeships. There was a time people looked down on apprenticeships because they were incorrectly deemed not to be proper third-level education courses. This college will have an eclectic mix of studies, disciplines, students, professors, degrees and diplomas. It will be on one site and there will be a spirit of collegiality, which is difficult to develop if one is miles from one's college. One's horizons are bounded by one's campus. Although the campus at Bolton Street or Kevin Street has wonderful facilities, students, professors and tutors, one is bounded by the physical environment in which one is based. In the new environment I can imagine spirits will soar into the skies with ideas, creativity, knowledge gained and knowledge sought.

DIT is an old college with a great background, serving as it did the whole artisan idea in Dublin. That was a noble start to the DIT concept. I was involved in legislation in that regard in my time in the Department of Education.

When I read the Minister's script I had a vision of the completed campus even though my knowledge of the area is so poor that I know America better than I know Grangegorman. I had a vision of the completed site, and how it would be thronged with students from everywhere, academic staff and creative staff. I like the idea of music, art and creativity that is already present in DIT. It is great that the institution had time to develop these disciplines. It would have been easy for people to say that these were not needed, given that DIT was involved in science and technology. The artistic side of life remained central to the college ethos and this was impressive at a time when utilitarian concerns, leading to immediate jobs, were the impetus in education.

It is a worthy idea that there will be community involvement, as there has been in Dublin docklands and the college in that area, the National College of Ireland. For too long universities had big glass walls, if not real walls, around them. The community and the college were separated and there was not as much interaction as there should have been. Community involvement is appropriate as Kevin Street and Aungier Street were the centre of the old part of Dublin. Both sides will benefit from this involvement.

The conservative estimate of this project is €900 million, a considerable amount of money. The project will move forward in a strategic, planned, gradual way. There will be much heartache, many headaches and fights between all kinds of people before the project is completed but the struggle will be well worth it. I note that very valuable properties are to be transferred to the agency, which will then sell them whenever good value can be realised. As valuable properties in an attractive area they can realise a considerable sum of money towards the final project.

I wish the Grangegorman development agency well in its future composition, and wish DIT well also. The university Senators spoke, as is to be expected as they get their votes from university graduates. I am sure this will be a fertile ground for them. I have kept in touch with DIT and many staff members have been kind enough to keep me informed through correspondence and invitations to various functions. I have always been glad to go as the various colleges are responsive to the needs of people. There is no point in setting up something that is a monolith and in which no one is interested.

Of the areas of education with which I was involved, DIT and the primary sector are the two with whom I have kept the closest links. These are the two most important elements within education. I wish the Minister well in her takeover of the Grangegorman development agency and I wish DIT well in its new manifestation. I look forward to an invitation to its unveiling.