Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire go dtí an Teach inniu chun an Bille seo a phlé. This simple Bill has generated much discussion and debate in the House, which is indicative of the important role land has played in the history of our country. Listening to Senator Norris I was reminded of my younger days and my grandparents complaining about their family being dispossessed during the Famine to make way for a Protestant family. The angst was as strong 120 years after it happened.

I can see how such situations can give rise to many complaints. People were very poor then and, to a great extent, land determined their social status. It is understandable that this attachment to land and property is inherent in all of us. I welcome the Bill and am aware that the Minister has introduced this legislation so that we can move away from some of the archaic provisions currently in place and move into the electronic age. As the leading exporter of software in the world, it behoves us to be at the cutting edge of the implementation of technological developments. This is certainly such an area.

The registration of deeds and registration of title systems are interesting. The Land Registry is the simpler way to register land and also implies ownership whereas registration of deeds does not do so in the same fashion. The process requires simplification but in so doing — I echo Senator Mansergh's comments, endorsed by Senator Quinn — it is important to preserve the heritage information contained in these systems. I have examined deeds from time to time and the amount of local history that can be gleaned from the records of ownership, going back several hundred years, is amazing . While this is not the primary function of the thrust towards electronic mapping and conveyancing, it is a strong secondary priority that people could access, perhaps through the Internet, the historical evidence that resides in the deeds. This could usefully be examined.

I am also impressed that the Minister has outlined the results of a survey carried out by the World Bank to the House, which shows Ireland to be in 15th place using its criteria. Registration takes 38 days here as against the best practice in Europe, which I believe to be in the Netherlands, where it takes five days. It is important that in all aspects of public services, we perform benchmarks against best international practice. We should aim to achieve that. Over recent days, the merits and demerits of benchmarking have been debated. Benchmarking exercises should be carried out on performance, but unfortunately, we perform benchmarks on positions and levels of responsibility. If we carried out benchmarks based on performance, it could be an appropriate method to reward people. If one reaches a certain level on a league table or some other indicator, bonuses and benefits would accrue. This is how the private sector operates. I welcome the Minister's proposal to bring forward amendments to restructure the Registry of Deeds and the Land Registry into a statutory body which will operate along the lines of the Courts Service. This is a move in the right direction.

I hope the property registration authority mentioned in the Minister's speech will in fact be referred to as an t-údarás cláracháin mhaoine, the Irish version. Terms such as An Bord Pleanála and Údarás na Gaeltachta are commonly used in everyday language. This encourages a familiarity with the Irish language and hopefully encourages people to use whatever Irish they have in everyday speech. Interestingly, one of the commitments in the Good Friday Agreement is to the Irish language as well as to Ulster Scots. There is a real need to keep the Irish language alive.

The Minister's speech referred to a review of the conveyancing laws, which is long overdue. The statutes that underpin them date back to approximately 1925. The existing conveyancing procedures definitely require modernisation and simplification. We have a pyramid system of ownership in operation. Senator Norris referred to personal occupation, after which one progresses to the tenant, the lessee, the owner of the leasehold and the freeholder. There are myriad forms of ownership. In New Ross and other towns, historic estates exist which go back to the 15th, 16th or 17th centuries and consequently, land registration is problematic. New Ross is a prime example where we have the Tottenham estate which, because of the different forms of ownership, is an inhibition on development. The estate itself has title and is entitled to recompense for it. However, one has situations where people who pay ground rent and sometimes leasehold rent invest enormous amounts in improving the properties. Subsequently they find that if they seek to buy the freehold, if that option is available, it is at a valuation reflecting the major investment they made in the property. This issue should be examined as it is a blight on urban renewal in many of our provincial towns because of the difficulties it imposes. It applies to both the residential and commercial sectors but in particular to the commercial sector which might have invested large amounts of money over the years.

The registry of deeds does not imply ownership. Perhaps that system should be examined. I hope the new property registration authority will attempt to establish how there could be some form of title certification within that procedure. Interestingly, I understand that in counties Carlow, Laois and Meath, there has been compulsory registration since 1969, whereby one is obliged to go to the Land Registry within six months. Why does that not apply to the rest of the country? I understand that similar obligations exist for the State and local authorities. This measure would be beneficial because it would tidy up the question of titles for people dealing with properties. Once a title is tidied, the process becomes very simple thereafter.

As the Minister noted, the process requires simplification for economic reasons and to improve its fairness. I welcome this Bill which is a good first step in the right direction. I look forward to the Minister introducing further legislation in the House which will deal with the more substantive issue of conveyancing reform.