Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to say a few words on this report and congratulate all those who had an input, the authors and those who made submissions. While it is an interesting debate, the question of reforming the Seanad is almost as old as the Seanad. We should not delude ourselves into believing there would be rejoicing on the streets and wild parties and celebration if, suddenly, the Government announced a changed system of election to the Seanad where there would be a universal franchise and where in the near future all citizens would have a vote to elect the Members of the Seanad. We must recognise there is a new reality in regard to the lack of connection between people and politics. We recognise that from the most recent general elections where we were lucky to get a little over 50% of the people to vote to elect the Government. I admit there was an improvement in the turnout at the recent local elections.

The country is not very concerned about how Senators are elected. What concerns those interested in politics, sadly the diminishing number of people interested in politics, is how the Seanad and Senators do their work. It is not a question of a larger Seanad or a smaller Seanad but a better Seanad. That is the question we must pose, whether elected through the vocational system, the university system or direct nominations. The issue is how can we make the Seanad a more effective debating chamber and a forum where the daily concerns of the people are debated and deliberated upon. From the point of view of debate and considered analysis of legislation, the Seanad has always been most effective.

Having served in both Houses, I make the point I have made previously in another place that there is much better debate and dialogue in the Seanad. It does not have the same political bite that, perhaps, the other House, believes it must have. The debates here are much calmer and, therefore, more effective. The question, therefore, is how the Seanad can be more effective.

The vast majority of queries from constituents and friends about the Seanad are not about how one is elected to the Seanad but rather what the Seanad does. We must ensure our work is more strongly profiled and that our engagement with the people is stronger. If we were to proceed with a number of measures contained in the recommendations, our role would be strengthened in the eyes of the public.

I do not wish to get into the issue of election to the Seanad as I do not think it will happen. In ten years time, if some future Government is debating Seanad reform, it will still debate how Senators are elected. Progress in that area will be slow. In the short term there is much we can do and we can go forward in a positive fashion.

I am happy to note the comments on EU affairs and the proposal that the Seanad should play a major role in debating European Union policy. Some Members, including Senator Ormonde, are members of the Joint Committee on European Affairs. Others of us are unfortunate enough to be members of the EU scrutiny committee where, once a fortnight, we go through in a reasonably detailed way the huge number of proposals before the Commission in Brussels. We are charged with the responsibility of suggesting what documents should go for scrutiny to the various committees. It is not a high profile committee but it does much effective work. That type of work could be done here in the Seanad.

As an aside, an issue we did not debate but observed at our EU scrutiny committee meeting this morning was a proposal, before the Commission in Brussels, on introducing and controlling licences for the felling of timber. One might ask what is the significance of that. It was pointed out to members of the committee by officials and through the documentation that it could result in a major increase in the price of timber here which would have a major knock-on effect on house building given that up to 30% of houses are built by timber frame construction methods. Relevant issues such as this often remain hidden. If the Seanad were to tackle those EU policy issues it would give the Seanad a meaningful role as far as the public is concerned.

I was very impressed last year when we had dialogue with the then MEPs. Every MEP who addressed the Seanad and took questions learned from us and we from them. It may be too early to invite the new batch of MEPs to address the House but it should be done on a regular basis. This is an ideal forum for listening to our MEPs and debating the issues of the day with them. There is the possibility of extending such dialogue beyond MEPs to other distinguished persons who, from a policy perspective, would have something to add to Irish life.

The proposal from the all-party group makes the observation that the Seanad should assume the role of principal policy reviewer in the Houses of the Oireachtas and mentions the possibility of debating medium-term economic and social planning, the performance of Departments, etc. I agree with that view. It is fair to observe, however, that as every Department has a committee of its own, there may not be the same scope for re-debating public policy, economic planning, performance of Departments as could have been the case five or ten years ago. I would expect that, say, the Joint Committee on Agriculture and Food, would have a greater role in debating the work of that Department than would the Seanad. The Joint Committee on European Affairs probably has a more major role to play in examining the work of the Department of Foreign Affairs than would the Seanad. Nevertheless, it is a matter that should be kept in mind because these issues are important. If we want to be viewed as relevant by the people, the question is not how we are elected but what we do once we are elected and the impact of our work on people's daily quality of life.

The system of election to the Seanad is very different from that for the Dáil. It has existed for a long time and may not be perfect, but it is difficult to improve it because we are not competing with another House. There is no point setting up 20 constituencies around the country to elect Senators. The Seanad is designed as a different Chamber from the Dáil, to be elected in a different fashion and to do a different job. It might not be broken as badly as some might argue. We should not rush to fix something that might not be completely broken. For us to concentrate more closely on our role and exercise it better might not be a bad starting point. Taking on issues such as more detailed consideration of legislation, a stronger emphasis on EU policy and public policy would be effective.

We have enough work to do here. Over the past five or six years the Seanad has met more often per year than the other House. The individual contribution of the average Senator is probably more substantive than that of the average backbench Deputy. I do not use the word average as a judgment of the quality of the speakers. We complain that we do not receive sufficient public profile and media attention, but we do not live in a perfect world and we must expect and accept that the other House will always be the focus of greater political attention.

I would like to see some simple measures introduced such as allowing Ministers to come here to answer questions, be they oral or written. We are all Members of the Oireachtas, whether elected to the Dáil or the Seanad, and should all be entitled to the same level of response from Ministers. This report provides the bones of proposals which can in some cases be introduced gradually to make the work of the House more effective. The document is a substantive response to the submissions from members of all parties in the House. However, I have been around long enough, and was fortunate to be a Member of the Seanad in the late 1980s, to expect no miracles in regard to the electoral system, but we can make genuine progress in the way we do our daily work.

The Seanad has made a significant contribution to political life. Sometimes when we review our role as politicians, whether as Senators, Deputies or Ministers, we can be too critical. We should reflect on the development of the country in the past 50 or 60 years. It has matured politically, grown economically and loosened itself up socially. Many people have got it right including many Oireachtas Members and many of our institutions have not been too wrong. We could do with a little less self-flagellation. Everybody elected here under whatever system does his or her best and contributes to parliamentary democracy and to the life of the people. We would all like to have a designated cine-channel that our constituents were forced to watch 24 hours a day, but that is not going to happen. We should try to get on with the job we are elected to do and expand our policy role a little more in so far as possible. The idea of changing the electoral system totally on the basis that the people would become highly excited at directly electing a portion of the Seanad might be a little unrealistic.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for listening to my meandering thoughts. My current tenure in the House reinforces what struck me during my first term here, namely, that the House and its Members do a good job on behalf of the people. In politics one can never expect the sort of recognition that one believes one deserves whether as an individual Member or as a member of a group. Since its inception this House has served the people well in a calm, considered fashion. We should approach change cautiously because the Seanad does not need too dramatic an overhaul.