Maurice Hayes (Independent)

I could shorten my contribution by saying I agree with almost everything Senator Moylan has said. His suggestions all seem to be eminently practical and sensible and would help the working of the Seanad. It has been an honour and a pleasure for me to be a Member of the Seanad and to have been the Taoiseach's nominee on two occasions. That could be taken as an argument for continuing the practice but could equally be taken as an argument against it.

What added value does the Seanad give? We should be prepared to face the awful prospect of asking what it would be like if there was no Seanad. Would matters be any worse? I happen to believe they would but it is a case to be made. The case is that we are a revising Chamber, that we can have more thematic and reasoned debates than the other House, that the atmosphere is not as adversarial and that business can be done. However, I often wonder if that is enough for the general public. We must show that we are in some way different from the other House and not just a pale replica thereof.

It might be cruel to say it but sometimes the Seanad reminds me of the old county junior football teams. They were full of last year's minors trying to get back up and last year's seniors on their way down. We should not be afraid to open the doors and bring in a new culture and a new part of the body politic. Part of being different from the other House is that we operate from a different constituency. Members of the Seanad should be elected from a different constituency. There would be little point in electing Senators from the same electorate and by the same method as Members of the Dáil.

The vocational base is important. It has been diluted to an extent by being politicised at that level. Whether it is possible to avoid that or whether it is desirable to do so is another issue. The link with the local authorities is important and I support Senator Moylan in that regard. In fact, I would go further. There is a tendency towards centralisation in local authorities also, with the units becoming bigger. The essence of the process is to try to press political participation down to the lowest units possible. I would include town commissioners, town committees and many other groups if a way could be found to define them and add them to the electoral college from which the Seanad is elected.

In this day and age it would generally be regarded as anti-democratic to have university seats. We had this argument in Northern Ireland when four seats were allocated to Queen's University. In the great rush to democratic change we got rid of them. The sad aspect of it was that we extinguished some of the only independent and interesting voices. The university centres over the years, without going into details or personalities, have produced a range of interesting, quirky and sparky people who have not only enlivened debate but have also given expression to views that might not have been voiced if they had not been there. I would retain that element but I would go further and extend it to all third level institutions.

Furthermore, I would extend it, as Senator Moylan suggested, to universities and third level institutions in Northern Ireland. That might be a way of providing for a wider representation of views from the North in this Chamber. The House could withstand a modest extension in numbers. The Senate should not get much bigger because there is an intimacy in the Chamber and in the nature of the debates which it is important to preserve. However, it could accommodate these other interests in some way.

Then there are the Taoiseach's nominees, which I should be the last to decry. I am not doing so. However, the question is how to include people who are representative of the North. I am conscious of the fact that I do not represent anybody. I represent myself. I am not authorised to speak for anybody else. I have been around the North for a long time, I have listened to people and I live there so I can sometimes say things in the Seanad that might not be said if I had not been here. I am glad of the opportunity to do so.

The only way I can envisage increasing Northern Ireland representation in the present form is by giving the Taoiseach two or three other slots to fill and by trying to fill them not just from one party or group, but from across the political spectrum in Northern Ireland. The idea that one could have an election for the Seanad in Northern Ireland is farfetched for ideological, practical and constitutional reasons. Equally, it is a little fanciful to talk about representation for the wider diaspora. It is proper that there should be people, and there are such people, in the Seanad who are aware of the problems of the diaspora and can reflect them. However, in giving constituencies to people how far does one go? Does one go to find people in Patagonia or the descendants of people from the midlands who went to Argentina and Australia? It is far too difficult and we should not go down that route.

There is a group of people who are under represented in politics in this country and whose involvement is vital to the continuation of democracy. That group comprises young people. It is not just in Ireland that young people are turning away from politics. It is happening everywhere. Some are getting involved in street politics, some are involved in protests. By and large, politics and politicians are sliding down the scale of respect as far as they are concerned. It is important that we get them to engage again in politics. My radical suggestion is that a third or a quarter of the seats should be reserved for people under 25 years of age. They should be elected. There is no reason the general electorate should not elect them. We have to find some means of engaging young people and that is perhaps one.

Having discussed the composition of the Seanad, I will now discuss what the Seanad might do to make itself different. There is a revising role. There is also a role which I would describe as the pre-Green Paper stage of legislation. It is difficult to make substantial changes to legislation when one is confronted with a draft Bill. It is almost cast in concrete. One can tweak it here and there and make suggestions but the principles of it have already been embedded. It would be helpful if, when a Minister gets a gleam in his or her eye about some matter, that he or she says: "We are going to have to legislate on this; here is the problem and here are the ways we are thinking of dealing with it." There could be a broad debate at that stage about the principles involved and the things that might be done. It would be extremely helpful to Ministers and to the people who will draft the subsequent Bill. The Seanad would be ideal in that regard.

The other issue the Seanad could deal with is Europe. It was extremely interesting and useful to have not only speakers from other European member states come to the House, but also MEPs to discuss their experience in the European Parliament. This House could be a focus for debate, although not for scrutiny of European measures. An Oireachtas committee will carry out the scrutiny and it is a technical matter anyway. However, there could be debate of the broad issues of principle that arise in Europe. It would give us the opportunity to examine them before they become problems.

We could also examine other big and broad problems that are not dealt with by separate Departments and seem to slip between the interstices of Government. An example is what the impact of global warming will be. What crops will be grown in 2050? What land will be habitable or uninhabitable? What lifestyle changes will we have to make? These are great thematic debates that are ready made for the Seanad. We could serve a purpose in that regard.

The Seanad could be a point of contact for the North-South bodies. I was attracted to Senator Moylan's suggestion of Northern political leaders and representatives coming before the Seanad from time to time to lay out their wares and to be open to discussion. The Seanad could also be a focus for consideration of the reports of the Ombudsman. They seem to run into the sand at present even though they are full of case studies and information which could be used to improve administration and the responsiveness to the citizens.

I have great belief in the Seanad. I have enjoyed the fellowship, warmth and contributions of all my colleagues. I believe we could make the Seanad a beacon of participatory Government and I hope we do so. I hope also, like Senator Moylan, that we do so in time for these things to come into force at the next election, which may be in two years time. This allows sufficient time for consideration and to get these things moved on.