Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and compliment him on surviving the axe yesterday, although it turned out to be a fairly blunt instrument as nobody was sacked — we had a couple of resignations. I wish the Minister of State well with his portfolio.

I welcome the report on Seanad reform. I compliment the sub-committee and the secretariat on their work and all the individuals and bodies who made submissions on the subject, which I read with interest. While they differed in many areas, what came through forcibly was the need for reform in terms of the functions of the Seanad and the electoral system. Senator O'Toole stated, and it should be emphasised, that nobody suggested the Seanad should be abolished. It was also agreed by everybody that the Seanad should not be in conflict with the Dáil and should not be a second Dáil per se.

The vocational panel system has served this House well in the past. Scrapping it would be a retrograde step. Some of the nominating bodies are outdated. There are probably too many of them. Some of them show very little interest in the process. However, other nominating bodies take their responsibilities very seriously and view their function as an important part of the electoral process and as an important part of the their duties under the Constitution. My nominating body, the Irish Conference of Professional and Service Associations made a very good submission on Seanad reform. I would have grave reservations about depriving nominating bodies who are active and informative of a say in the electoral process as they have carried out their duties in an exemplary and fitting manner as envisaged under the Constitution. I certainly agree that the system should be reformed, but scrapping the input of such bodies would not be fair or equitable.

I have no objection to the direct election of a number of Senators to a national constituency by the people, whether under a PR list system or otherwise. I agree with Senator MacSharry that a list system may not be as democratic as people would wish. It is suggested that we should move away from the political system and towards a system of people representing various bodies. However, under a list system it will be down to the political parties, probably not even local representatives in many instances, but people in headquarters in political parties to put people on lists. I do not view that as being very democratic, but I would agree that some Senators should be elected by the people to a national constituency. It would make the Seanad a more meaningful and relevant body in the eyes of the people and it is also very important that the people should see the Seanad as a very democratic body.

That the role of county councillors in elections has been recognised is welcome as they also view their role very seriously. The proposal that the Seanad be renewed on a rolling basis over a five year term in the interests of continuity is a sensible one. I have not heard anybody speak against a rolling system with elections every two and a half years.

The Seanad should at all times avail of the experience and expertise of former officeholders in Government and the suggestion that former taoisigh and tánaistí should have the right to attend and speak in the House is a good one. Providing Irish MEPs with a domestic forum in which to discuss EU issues and give an account of the work they do is another sensible suggestion that would add to the effectiveness of the Seanad. In the past year or so several MEPs have come here to speak on European issues and have been very effective, and they welcomed the opportunity to do so. That practice should be encouraged and expanded on and I agree with the sub-committee's remarks in that regard.

The recommendation that a formal system of consultation should be put in place in the Seanad to allow for consultation with interested groups and individuals early in the legislative process is one of the most important recommendations in the report. This has been alluded to already by Senator O'Toole. It is imperative for the House to know, well in advance, even in terms of its current operation, what Bills will come before it. I accept that this must be within reason as emergency Bills must be introduced from time to time. Knowing what Bills are to come before the House would afford Members a better opportunity to prepare and make more informed and considered contributions on proposed legislation. This is why one of the report's key recommendations is for more public consultation at an early stage in the legislative process.

Having the Seanad assume the function of principal policy reviewer in the Oireachtas is an interesting recommendation. However, it may put this House in conflict with the Lower House. I may be incorrect in my interpretation of this recommendation but I would not wish it to happen. Another interesting recommendation is for the Seanad to be assigned responsibility for the scrutiny of senior public appointments, similar to the system used in the US. I welcome the clarification given by Senator O'Toole on the sub-committee's interpretation of this issue.

The report is a challenging one with recommendations that will, in some instances, require constitutional change. This should not prevent setting the wheels in motion for change. One recommendation is that the Taoiseach's nominations to the Seanad should include various interest groups such as emigrant groups. However, there is already a proposal with the Taoiseach from Senator Higgins on this issue. He has stated that he is prepared to step down if someone from the emigrant community takes his Seanad seat. If the Taoiseach is serious about Seanad reform, he should respond quickly to this matter by stating there will be no opposition to Senator Higgins's proposal and that the Government parties will not take his Seanad seat if he decides to resign. A representative from the emigrant community should be co-opted in his place.

I welcome this exciting and challenging report. Whether the changes will proceed at this stage is in the lap of the gods. Nothing has happened despite several previous reports on Seanad reform. I hope that some of the challenging proposals of the sub-committee will be acted upon and make this House more meaningful and relevant to Irish life.