Tony Kett (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon. I thank the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform for bringing forward this legislation, which, unfortunately, is appropriate because of the times in which we live. The Bill provides for the establishment of commissions of investigation, which will investigate and report on matters referred to it which, in the words of the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, are "of significant public concern". Their job thereafter will be to establish the factual detail.

A question arises as to when and in what circumstances such a commission would be established. The Bill provides that a commission will be established on foot of a Government order approved by the Oireachtas. The subject matter must, in the words of the Bill, be of significant public concern and not simply of public interest. In the past, situations have perhaps arisen whereby an issue driven by the media in the first instance gathered legs and ended up in a tribunal when it may have been no more than a storm in a teacup. Relevant issues of significant public concern could include the safety of society or the safe operation of a significant public service.

We live in an era in which tribunals are an everyday occurrence. This has brought shame on the body politic and exasperated and disgusted the general public in a manner that could and should have been avoided. Moreover, some of the cheap political point-scoring in recent years has focused attention on politicians when we would perhaps have been better served by avoiding this. Anyone scoring a political point on this issue focuses on him or herself as well as on the person targeted, which serves no-one in public life.

The tribunals were set up to examine unsavoury elements of Irish life and issues of concern to the public, as is right and proper. We have been shocked and ashamed by some of the outcomes and revelations from the tribunals. In that regard, I welcome public inquiries and hope they eliminate all that was bad in public life and life in general, whether in regard to the nod and wink merchants, the greedy or those who would seek to abuse the young and vulnerable.

However, it is unfortunate, as we all agree, that the tribunals have become ponderous and lean heavily on the public purse. Recent statements that the tribunals may continue for years are at the least alarming. Have the terms of reference of the tribunals been examined? A lay person considering them would think they had moved away from their initial terms of reference. It would appear that any given evidence can send the tribunals off in many directions. The recent tribunal appearance by the Taoiseach is a good example. Two objective friends told me that, on that occasion, the tribunal was basically a sub-committee and that what took a full day could have been dealt with in half an hour. I am sure there are many other examples of this.

Given this slow progress coupled with rising costs, it is not surprising there is an increasing level of frustration and anger among the public, who pay the costs at the end of the day. For that reason alone, I welcome the Bill. It contains several new features which will ensure more timely, cost effective investigations without compromising the outcome of those investigations. It enhances the ability of a commission of investigation to meet its objectives by establishing the facts about matters referred to it. Justice will be better served, leading to a speedy conclusion and cost savings, all of which will assist in allaying public anger concerning the small number of lawyers receiving a disproportionate amount of the funds associated with the workings of tribunals. A newspaper report today suggested lawyers are receiving in excess of €2,000 per day. When one hears of such costs, it is unsurprising the tribunals have cost approximately €120 million to date and could cost as much as €1 billion. This is outrageous when one considers what could be done with that money in times of need, and it must be stopped.

When the tribunals were initially set up, we all thought they would last one or two years at worst and that verdicts would result. While I accepted the original need for tribunals, they have lost their focus in many respects and, in many instances, have become bogged down in legal argument. This Bill introduces many positive features to eliminate much of that. For instance, under the establishment order there must be statements referring to timescales and costs before the commission is set up. That is a commendable way forward. If these provisions had applied five or six years ago, as Senator Terry said, we would not be in the quagmire we are in currently in terms of costs and so on. Now details will be provided prior to any deliberations and the public will clearly see where their money is going, how long the process will take and what the final outcome will be in terms of cost. That will serve to create confidence in the process where it is required. Obviously, if it were not required at all we would all be much better off.

It must also be recognised that this in no way interferes with the workings of tribunals now or in the future. Neither does it establish a single or permanent investigations body. We are told many investigations can take place at different times. That is to be welcomed. I also welcome the fact that the commission will focus in the first instance on seeking its information on a voluntary basis. To this end, the evidence will be received mostly in private, which is also a good thing. However, it has the teeth, if necessary, to force a witness to attend if he or she is not prepared to do so in a voluntary capacity. It is easy to envisage circumstances in which witnesses might not want to come forward. They may not be willing to co-operate or may try to hinder the effectiveness of the process. I am glad to see there is provision for penalties because this will focus the mind of a person who may want to hinder the process.

The protection of the good name of persons who are maliciously maligned is also included in the Bill. People will have the option of telling their side of the story if they so wish. The Bill will be of major benefit in investigating serious matters of public concern. I wish it well. Like all legislation that has come out of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, it is well thought out and will be of major benefit.