Joe O'Toole (Independent)

The point is that no convincing argument is being put to answer Senator McDowell's points. If one reflects on what Senator Mansergh said about the need for certainty, accuracy and lack of ambivalence, this provision is full of shades and there is no way one can see it operating to help those who will be seeking information. It pulls another cloak over this operation and is another regressive step. Senator McDowell and I accept the Minister of State's point about commercial interests and one can see the reasonableness of dealing with these issues, but it can also be dealt with another way. The way we are going into this creates a puzzle within a puzzle and one gets lost in the middle.

The "neither confirm nor deny" provision is an easy way out and will not only be used, it will be overused. It is like saying that certain sections of the Offences Against the State Act would not be used; it would be worthwhile looking at that again, as such provisions may have a different intention than they had when put together. It would be easier to use this option than to make someone get information together for two weeks if that were necessary and that is understandable. It is not acceptable but it is understandable. This provision makes it possible for that to happen. It will be the easiest option.