Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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73. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the progress that has been made to secure a bilateral agreement with Britain to ensure those international protection applicants who should be processed in Britain can be returned there in a timely manner; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [68314/25]

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has stated publicly on a number of occasions that a significant proportion - in fact, the vast majority - of those seeking international protection in this State are coming from Britain via the common travel area. It seems logical to most people that we need a bilateral agreement with Britain to ensure those international protection applicants who should be processed in Britain are returned there in a timely manner. What progress is being achieved in securing such an agreement?

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Carthy for his question. He is correct in identifying that there clearly is a lot of fluidity between asylum applications in the United Kingdom and Ireland because individuals can travel freely from Britain to Northern Ireland and, because of the common travel area, there is no barrier to individuals travelling south from Northern Ireland into this jurisdiction. Similarly, it operates in the other way. Many people can fly into Dublin Airport, freely travel up to Northern Ireland and then readily transfer over to Britain. It is an issue in the context of assessing applications for international protection.

It is important to set out the situation that pertained previously. Prior to Britain leaving the European Union, Britain was part of the Dublin III regulation and, therefore, returns could operate in respect of people who had come from Britain and applied for asylum here. After Brexit that changed. Promptly after Brexit, we designated the United Kingdom as a safe third country but that was fairly rapidly challenged and the court ruled it could not be categorised thus for a period. Then, earlier this year, on 11 March, I designated the UK as a safe third country. However, because the UK is outside of the EU, we do not have an operationalised system of returns between the UK and Ireland at present. My officials are in discussion with officials from the Home Office and I will be talking to the Home Secretary again in the week after next. I had very good engagement with the previous Home Secretary and I assume I will have the same good engagement with the current one. That said, I have to point out that the political reality is such that the UK is not going to enter into an agreement with Ireland whereby it simply takes back individuals who have applied for asylum in Ireland because they emanated from the UK. We can see what is happening in France. I agree with Deputy Carthy that there has to be greater engagement with the UK and I am in the process of doing that.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister will be aware that this week, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Home Affairs and Migration in its pre-legislative scrutiny report on the international protection Bill asked that consideration be again given to opting out of the EU migration and asylum pact because that pact does not take cognisance of the fact we operate within a common travel area. Ireland is in the unique position of being an EU member state that also has a common travel area with a state outside of the EU. It is becoming increasingly clear that the pact fails to take account of Ireland's unique challenges. I am concerned at the lack of priority that the Minister is giving to what is a programme for Government commitment to prioritise working with the British Government to introduce further measures in respect of the common travel area. No progress has been made.

Is the Minister going to take account of the pre-legislative scrutiny report from the committee and prioritise this issue? It needs to be prioritised.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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Progress has been made with the British Government. There is very good engagement between my Department and the Home Office. The only way we will be able to resolve the issues of concern to the Deputy and me is through collaboration and co-operation with the British Government. He keeps mentioning that we should not have opted in to the pact, but he must then present to the public the consequence of that. The consequence of not opting in is that the 2015 International Protection Act would still apply, as would the 2004 directives giving effect to that. It is not as simple as saying that we should not have opted in to the pact. If we had not opted in to the pact, we would still have the same issue under the 2015 legislation and that does not resolve the issue we are facing. There needs to be an awareness that opting in to the pact has not precluded us from doing what we want to do. The reason we have had a significant change is that the British have left the European Union. It is as a result of the British leaving the EU that we have this issue in our common travel area. I would appreciate if Deputy Carthy and Sinn Féin would say that the common travel area is for the benefit of citizens of Ireland and the UK and not for anyone else. That would be a considerable contribution.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I will say that if it makes the Minister happier.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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Well done. That is one in a row and the first time he has said it.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister should also say, as all of us in this House should say, that managing migration would be much easier if we were doing it on an all-Ireland basis within a unitary state framework and that, therefore, we should try to advance the reunification of our country for that and many other reasons.

In 2020, Ireland and Britain agreed informal, non-legally binding operational arrangements to return asylum seekers to each other. How many have been returned to Britain from Ireland? I ask the Minister to provide real figures. Different percentages have been cited in terms of the numbers that are coming through the common travel area. We do not know the numbers for sure because we are not compiling data on people who might, for example, have come for tourism or on student or work visas and subsequently applied for international protection, or on those who applied in any other way. If the figures are anywhere close to those that have been cited, then it is negligence that ensuring we have an arrangement in place is not at the top of the Minister's list to . As he rightly says, the British Government has a potential benefit from this as well if what it is stating is the case.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In response to the Deputy's specific questions, in 2019, of 35 people transferred, 33 were sent to the United Kingdom. In 2020, of eight people transferred, seven were sent to the UK. This is at the top of my list. In fact, I am criticised for trying to deal with issues in respect of international protection and for giving too much priority to it but it is an absolutely essential issue. In terms of what the Deputy said about the figures, what we have is an assessment that the figures are very high because huge percentages of people are applying for international protection at the International Protection Office, IPO. They are not applying at the airport and while it is not conclusive, we believe it is strongly persuasive evidence that those individuals who apply for asylum at the IPO are coming south over the Border. That is supported anecdotally as well. The percentage of people applying for asylum at the IPO is 87%.

As I have said previously, there are many people going in the other direction. When I speak to the Home Secretary, she will be saying to me that she has great concern about people flying into Dublin Airport and coming into Britain through Northern Ireland.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Then let us have a bilateral agreement.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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They have a bilateral agreement with the French and it is one in, one out. They are realistic politicians.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We have a common travel area.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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That agreement is one in, one out.