Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am glad to get time to raise this very important matter, the spread of tuberculosis and the TB eradication scheme, which is clearly not working. We have more outbreaks of TB now after 46 or 47 years of testing. There are so many farmers going down in east Kerry, mid-Kerry and south Kerry. Even in Kilgarvan, many farmers have gone down, including our neighbour, Mikey Joe Murphy, who is very local to us and does everything right. He has never bought in any cows or animals and gives and does all he can to maintain and improve his herd. If I look out at 7.30 a.m. on a Sunday morning, his cows are leaving the parlour, milked. Half an hour later, we can see him topping or spreading fertiliser, even on a Sunday. He goes at it around the clock. He had an outbreak of tuberculosis last Friday week and 26 of his 66 cows have gone down. That is very hard for any farmer, especially somebody like Mikey Joe, who farms full time and whose farm income is his primary income to provide for his wife and family. He tells me that the compensation he will get is in no way adequate for the type of cows he had. An independent valuer stated they were worth in excess of €4,500. He seems to think he will only get €3,150. The Department should know by now that the cost of cattle has risen sharply in the past 12 months, meaning replacing the animals will cost much more.

We heard the Minister, Deputy Heydon, say he had secured extra funding, but what is it for? Is it to curb the primary cause? I do not think so. It seems to be for the secondary issue of more testing and disposal reactors. The number of reactors has been going up steadily since 2018 when there were 7,500. That figure is now up to 41,630. Is is it true that no culling of badgers has taken place in the past two years and they have only been vaccinated? What good is vaccinating a badger that has TB?

For many years, the Department has denied the fact that deer and badgers are the primary reason for the spread of the disease, as they move unrestricted from farm to farm. Badgers and deer are travelling wherever they want, when they want. I know of one farmer, and I will not tell the Minister of State where or who he is, but he never went down and he was in the middle of four or five farmers who were constantly going down. They would go down and be clear for a few years and then they would go down again. In one year alone, this small farmer snared 103 badgers. He never went down. These were big, small and baby badgers. He culled 103 in one year alone. I ask the Minister of State and Department to dramatically increase the culling of deer and badgers.

The national parks and forests are harbouring the deer in a big way. The farmers cannot follow them into those places. If we have sheep, we must have something to keep them in because a cattle fence will not do. I ask that these entities fence their places off, so at least deer cannot come out of them into neighbouring farms spreading the disease.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I sincerely thank Deputy Danny Healy-Rae for raising this very important issue for farmers in Kerry and throughout the country. I have the exact same concerns with regard to badgers and deer and their role in spreading this disease.

In recent years, there has been a significant increase in bovine TB, with levels nationally causing an economic and emotional burden for farmers, their families and rural communities. Bovine TB is a difficult disease to control and eradicate but it can and has been done in other countries. If we do not do something now, it will continue to affect more farmers and their families throughout rural Ireland.

In 2024, more than 6,000 farming families were affected by a TB outbreak and the herd incidence was over 6%. As of 23 November 2025, on a 12-month basis, herd incidence has fallen below 6% nationally and is 5.9% in Kerry, which, of course, is still too much. One of the key priorities of the Minister, Deputy Heydon, has been to address and review the bovine TB programme to tackle disease levels. Over time, our understanding of TB has increased and evolved, and research has shown our current approach to addressing disease levels on its own is not enough to control and ultimately eradicate TB. The Deputy is correct.

Earlier this year, the Minister had extensive engagement with stakeholders and farming organisations to agree measures to tackle the current disease levels. In June, he received the support of the Government to introduce additional measures to the bovine TB programme. On 9 September, the Minister launched the bovine TB action plan, addressing bovine TB in Ireland. There are five measures and 30 actions underpinned by scientific research, evidence and veterinary expertise in this action plan. These are to support herds free of bovine TB to remain free; reduce the impact of wildlife on the spread of bovine TB, which is what the Deputy spoke about; detect and eliminate bovine TB infection as early as possible in herds with bovine TB breakdown and avoid future breakdowns; help farmers to improve all areas of on-farm biosecurity; and reduce the impact of known high-risk animals in spreading bovine TB, including badgers and deer.

Bovine TB is not a new challenge for farmers, their families and rural communities but engagement with farmers and all stakeholders tells me there is an appetite for change to address the current disease levels. However, these changes will need to be supported and implemented by everyone to have an effect on the current disease levels throughout the country. This action plan is one of the single largest resets of the TB programme since its inception. The Minister and I believe these changes are vital to protect farming families throughout the country from TB.

The Minister is committed to ongoing constructive engagement with all farmers and stakeholders as it is vital that all involved in the programme continue to work together to protect farmers from TB. The Minister and I believe that by continuing to build our TB policies on a foundation of science and veterinary-based advice, which farmers can act on to reduce risks, we can together focus our efforts to protect cattle from infection and farmers from the stress of uncertainty and costs of a breakdown.

I acknowledge that the Deputy's statement that the way people are compensated is unsustainable is correct. I have grave concerns about this myself. Based on current prices, the compensation does not reflect what cattle make at the mart. If we take cases like that of our neighbour Mikey Joe, this puts people at an awful and unfair financial disadvantage when they have an outbreak. That is a matter of grave concern to the Deputy. I thank him again on behalf of the Department for raising it on behalf of farmers in Kerry and throughout the country.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply. It is very clear that we and the Department are not doing enough. If we keep going the way we have gone for the past 46 years and we do not change something, it will be the same story for whoever is here in 50 years' time. There is no point in the world going around vaccinating badgers. We do not know whether they had TB, whether they were infected with it already or what the story is. The fact is they need to be culled. I was getting to the point that the big infestation of deer is in the 26,000 acres of national park.

They are able to roam from there all through east Kerry. They have spread to State and private forestries. We must fence our own lands to keep our animals off the road and to stop them going into the neighbours. The damage deer are doing to cars and people on the road has to be considered. Sadly, seven people were killed in the past two weeks. It does matter how a person is killed - whether it is by a deer, another vehicle or whatever - they are dead.

They go down on the skin test. We are told that when they are slaughtered in the factory, they are clear and there are no lesions or whatever. How is that? That needs to be explained to farmers. It is terrible. I know a farmer called Mikey Joe. He probably has a name for every cow he has. When they come in to be milked twice a day, he knows their names. When a cow goes down, he will know that many of them will turn out to be clean when they are slaughtered.

Aidan Farrelly (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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The Deputy's time is up.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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That is devastating for farmers. They cannot understand it. We rarely hear about an inconclusive animal. The numbers are getting bigger.

Aidan Farrelly (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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The Deputy is over his time.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Before it was one, two or three but now if a fella has 60 cows, 26 go down. I apologise to the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy very much. On the names of cows, the Deputy may recall that our late father had a cow, and he called her Thatcher for some reason only known to himself.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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There was another cow called Haughey.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Current TB levels are leading to stress for farmers who have had a bovine TB outbreak. For those who are living in fear of having TB outbreaks and are worried about the impact it would have on their livelihoods, we need to ensure that all necessary measures are taken to reduce disease levels and ultimately take the stress associated with bovine TB out of farmers' lives. The aim of the action plan is to reset the bTB programme in the context of putting in place measures necessary to tackle the current disease situation throughout the country. These measures are targeted at both transmission between wildlife and cattle and transmission between cattle. Some of the measures will be introduced immediately in terms of communication and engagement with farmers. Some will be introduced over the coming months into 2026. Some of these measures require work on IT systems, which is being prioritised, and will be rolled out in the coming months.

Farmers and all stakeholders will be notified in advance of any changes to the TB programme through communication campaigns. The bovine TB eradication programme has secured an increased budget allocation in 2026, providing a total of €157 million. This additional funding is vital in addressing the disease. I am confident it will help drive down the instances of bovine TB levels in future years. Through the implementation of the new measures in the action plan, the Minister and I believe that it is vital that the cost of this disease is reduced for the coming years. This budget allocation will support and enable farm families, who are currently dealing with the stress of a bTB outbreak, to navigate a way out of the bTB restrictions and protect those herds currently free from bTB from the stress of a TB outbreak.

Aidan Farrelly (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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The Minister of State's time is up.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I once again strongly reiterate the Minister, Deputy Heydon's personal commitment to making sure that during his tenure as Minister for agriculture that he, the Department and all of us will work together in reducing the TB outbreaks. I thank the Deputy for raising this most important matter on behalf of the people of County Kerry.