Dáil debates
Wednesday, 19 November 2025
Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions
5:00 am
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Met Éireann issued a cold weather warning this morning. Temperatures are set to plunge to -3° with frost, ice and dangerous conditions expected over the coming days. People are anxious. People are preparing. People are scared because they simply cannot afford another winter like the last one.
One communication to my office this morning was from a person who wrote:
We got our autumn gas bill. It was €275. The heating had barely been on. We paid just under €20 in VAT, €20 in carbon tax and a standing charge of around the same, all totaling €59.80. The next gas bill will be double that as the weather has changed. This is nearly impossible for us. It looks like we will freeze again this year. It is just survival now.
When people are describing their lives as "survival", something is deeply wrong. However, this is the reality so many are living in and this is the Ireland of 2025. Yet, the Government has scrapped the energy credits just as people's bills are rising again. It leaves families to face the cold entirely on their own at the harshest time of the year. Yesterday, St. Vincent de Paul said it expects a quarter of a million calls for help this year. That is a quarter of a million people and families turning to charity because they cannot make ends meet. This tells us how serious, how widespread and how devastating this hardship has become.
Across the board, everything is getting dearer. Rents are through the roof as is the weekly food shop. Parents are budgeting down to the last euro. People feel it every time they go to the supermarket or to the petrol station and every time they try to pay a bill. Life is getting harder, not easier.
This is the point: the biggest hit of all is one the Government chose to impose. By increasing student fees by €500, it pushed up the cost of education more than anything else this year. For families with students, this is a massive extra burden. It is the single steepest rise in any household cost and the Government caused it. Of course, it also hiked up fuel costs, petrol, diesel and home heating oil.
D’eisigh Met Éireann rabhadh aimsire fuaire ar maidin. Tá an teocht le titim go dtí -3° le sioc agus leac oighir agus táthar ag súil le cúinsí contúirteacha sna laethanta amach romhainn. Tá imní ar dhaoine mar tá a fhios acu nach féidir leo teacht slán ar gheimhreadh eile cosúil leis an gceann deireanach a bhí againn. Bhain an Rialtas na creidiúintí fuinnimh uathu, ach tá siad ag teastáil ó dhaoine anois láithreach. Caithfidh an Rialtas an cinneadh sin a mhalartú.
The Government, of course, also removed the energy credits. These things did not just happen. These are deliberate decisions taken knowing full well the pressure families were already under. I have raised the issue of the energy companies and their exorbitant prices time and again in this Chamber. I warned repeatedly but the Government failed to appreciate the scale of what is happening out there. I have to continue raising these points because, as the weather gets colder, the hardship increases and more people are pushed to the brink. I have asked the Government before to tackle the energy companies and get them to end their rip-off.
However, in the here and now, people need help from the Government. The easiest, most direct and immediate way to do this is to restore the energy credits. I ask again, and I ask plainly: will the Government please restore the energy credits or is it prepared to allow families to struggle through winter under its policies?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Ar dtús báire, ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Cuirim fáilte roimh na cuairteoirí in Áiléar na gCuairteoirí Oirirce. Is deas bualadh le leo inniu. Ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Admhaím go bhfuil dualgas ar an Rialtas gach aon tacaíocht is féidir a thabhairt do mhuintir na tíre, go háirithe do dhaoine a bhfuil ioncam íseal acu. Is é sin atá déanta againn sa cháinaisnéis a bhí againn le déanaí. Tá muid ag fós ag díriú ar na daoine bochta sa tír. Tá sé sin ceart agus cóir.
I disagree with the Deputy's analysis in terms of her analysis that Government has not responded to the needs of people in our economy. First of all, the economic resilience of Ireland has been significant coming through Brexit, through Covid-19 and through the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and the consequential energy crisis that ensued. I recall Deputy McDonald advancing the Liz Truss solution on that occasion, where she wanted to bail out all the energy companies. Liz Truss tried that and look what happened.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No. The Taoiseach's recall is wrong; it is sketchy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy McDonald had the Liz Truss approach to the energy crisis. She quickly abandoned it as things went pear-shaped in the UK as a result of that particular policy.
In regard to the budget, we accept the situation is tough for many households and families out there. Even though inflation is coming down from the high of 2023-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In terms of where it was, it is coming down. Cop on. In 2021, 2022 and 2023-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We need to be upfront with people here. The bottom line for us is that in the recent budget we have targeted resources at those most in need. We managed €10 for the pensioners. In terms of fuel, we increased the fuel allowance by €5 a week, from €33 to €38. That is an additional €140 over the fuel season. Fuel allowance now covers 26% of households. That is up from 23%. We have extended the reduced VAT on gas and electricity until December 2030. Substantial funding has been allocated for home energy upgrades and retrofitting, which really helps families and helps people.
This Government has done more than any other for a long, long time in respect of the cost of education in terms of free schoolbooks at primary and at post-primary level. That was quite a radical move. It took Sinn Féin by surprise, but it happened. That has been a real reduction in costs. Capitation grants for primary, special schools and post-primary went up massively in this budget-----
5:10 am
Eoghan Kenny
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Could we please have one voice?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----particularly to help primary schools and special schools as well. We have targeted the resources. Sinn Féin wants to look after millionaires and so on with energy credits. That is its business-----
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
So now we are millionaires.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
----but as far as we are concerned, we need to target resources.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Sinn Féin has had a few millionaires in its day across the water, some of them quite dubious by the way, but we will say no more about that.
Johnny Guirke (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Bring back the Galway tent.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
You went into Government with them.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Gould, Sinn Féin has a leader.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The other area that we focused on was public services. If we look at the economy now, our expenditure has gone up over 7% as a result of the Estimates in the budget this year. That is significant. Why? Because we are investing in disability services, and we need to. We are investing in child poverty-----
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Child poverty has doubled.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----with substantial increases in the child support payment, all of which is dealing with those families who are clearly under pressure and who need our resources the most. Sinn Féin has gone for all universal supports and ignoring those with the lowest incomes.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
All of the bragging in the world from the Taoiseach does not alter the fact that 250,000 people and families will reach out to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul for help. I am glad the Taoiseach's benches finds this amusing and that his would-be successor is grinning like a Cheshire cat while we have this exchange. I have to tell the Taoiseach that I do not find this funny. I do not need him to mansplain the economy to me. I do not need him to dodge and evade a simple question. I asked him about energy credits. I have set out for him the reality that people are now fearful, that people are not turning on their heat and that the heart is crossways on people when they are opening their bills. That is the reality. It may not land with the Taoiseach. I do not know what reality he lives in, but I know who I represent in here. I represent families that are struggling. I represent working people who are struggling and are now fearful that they cannot make their bills.
I asked the Taoiseach: will he restore these energy credits? I would like a straight answer to that precise question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We do not need lectures from the Deputy about who she represents or who we represent. The people on this side of the benches came from working-class backgrounds and got elected as Deputies because they are in touch with people and understand the realities out there.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They clearly do not.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I ask Deputy McDonald to please allow the Taoiseach to answer.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy should stop that sort of pretence that she goes on with all of the time. Sinn Féin wants to support those on very high incomes with energy credits.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is what she said. We decided not to do that. Sinn Féin wanted us to give energy credits to everybody, irrespective of income. Sinn Féin wants to give millionaires and people on €200,000 an energy credit. We have said that we will give child support payments the biggest increase. Children over 12 will get €16 extra a week out of this budget up to €78 a week. Children under 12 will get an increase of €8 up to €58 a week. Job seeker's benefit allowance has been increased by €10 per week, as have State pensions and so on.
There has also been investment in public services in terms of education, health and disability. Yes, we made choices.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They cannot heat their homes.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy had her chance to speak. We made our choices. We prioritised services for people.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government finally published its long overdue housing plan last week. After all the anticipation, what it delivered was nothing more than old milk in new bottles. There was nothing new on affordable homeownership, no clarity on what new powers the Land Development Agency will have and no ambition on social housing. It is just an open door for speculators and land hoarders. Worse again, the Government has abandoned annual targets for new home building. Could there be a more blatant admission of failure than that?
The Government has also essentially confessed to the locked-out generation that it has truly run out of ideas, simply telling them to hang in there while removing the very tools needed to measure progress. It does not take a genius to understand why. When you scrap metrics, you scrap accountability. Worst of all, the Taoiseach's Government has normalised the eviction of children, at a time more than 5,000 children are without a home. This a national disgrace and the Government's housing plan is a disgrace.
People can see the Government has no real plan for housing. It is forming policy on the hoof, so it is no wonder its policies do not work. Let us take its recent plans to rip up minimum apartment standards and gut planning rules less than a year after the then Minister for housing, Deputy O'Brien, passed what he called "a comprehensive planning law".
On a random Sunday last July, the Government leaked to the papers new plans to make homes smaller by drastically cutting planning standards. There is nothing wrong with trying new things and, indeed, each week the Labour Party and others urge the Government to change its housing policies, but not like this because the Government tried this move before and it was a disaster then. If we cast our minds back to 2018, the then Fine Gael housing Minister, Eoghan Murphy, introduced similar plans to reduce standards and a regulatory mess ensued. Indeed, it was a mess that forced one of his successors, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, to amend apartment design rules again.
Why does the Government opt to repeat the mistakes of the past and, worse, to do more than merely repeating them? The current Minister for housing, Deputy Browne has sought to introduce a wrong-headed change without the required strategic environmental assessment.
Relaxing minimum housing standards was not in Fianna Fáil nor Fine Gael's election manifestos last year That is no wonder because if it was, they would have spent the election campaign explaining why people should look for a return to shoe boxes and grotty bedsits. They would have faced the same critique they are getting now from the Irish Planning Institute. Instead of announcing it, the two parties kept it quiet and ran on falsely inflated home building projections.
When the Government leaked those plans on a Sunday last July, the Cabinet agreed it by the following Tuesday and councillors justifiably brought a legal challenge to its hasty change. The Government lashed out. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste attacked me and the Labour Party's housing spokesperson, Deputy Conor Sheehan, and accused our party of weaponising the courts because our councillor, Darragh Moriarty, was one of the councillors involved.
The Government then backed down in the courts on Monday of this week. It was a dramatic climbdown. This was a significant development that shows that there is no strategy and that no strategy underlies this change. It just an admission of failure. Does the Taoiseach admit that the Government's housing policies are failing, its attempt to reduce apartment standards has failed and its new housing plan is a further admission of failure?
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
When did the Deputy build houses?
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will Deputy Healy-Rae please sit down?
Duncan SmithVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will Deputy Healy-Rae resume his seat?
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will the Taoiseach wait until the circus is over?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I 100% reject Deputy Bacik's false narrative on the Government's position on housing and her vagueness about the Labour Party's position. I sum up the Labour Party's housing policy and the attitude of its members to housing as: whatever the Government proposes, we oppose.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is extraordinary-----
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Have the same discourse and respect.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
----that the Deputy gave a big opening critique of overall Government policy and then zeroed in on apartment standards because her party opposes that decision. That is all the Labour Party can do. The Deputy told an untruth when she said that the Government has no social housing targets. She knows full well that the housing plan is very clear-----
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is not what I said.
Conor Sheehan (Limerick City, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
She said private housing developers.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Bacik did say that. She said that we had no social housing plans. The housing plan states that we will deliver 12,000 new social homes every year over the lifetime of the plan. We have significantly transformed the scale and pace of social housing delivery over the past five years. That has to be acknowledged. I have looked at the Labour Party's manifesto on housing. It is so vague as to be unbelievable. It is bereft of any depth or substance. The Labour Party has put no flesh on the bone of any of its proposals.
The housing plan has depth and substance. We have capitalised the Land Development Agency to about €8.75 billion. We are talking about a €50 billion plan for housing. In terms of the need for 50,000 houses a year, we will need about €20 billion to be spent every year. The State will not to be able to spend €20 billion every year. The private sector has to be involved. The Labour Party has consistently been hostile to any private sector dimension to housing.
We say that the State will continue to allocate enormous sums to housing and to infrastructure that will enable housing, such as water services and the national grid. That is the fundamental big picture about housing.
The Deputy wants to get back down to apartment guidelines. We wanted to close the viability gap. We need more apartments built. We reduced the VAT on apartments in the budget. The Labour Party lazily and politically described it as a pro-developer measure. That is not the reason.
It is to narrow the viability gap that all the analysts have identified in terms of apartment building in cities. We have done a number of other measures in terms of the reform of rent pressure zones. The Deputy opposed that too, of course, because she just wants to be popular all the time. We are focused since we came into government on doing things around housing to reform the rental market. That is in line with the Housing Commission report, by the way, which called for reform of the rental market. We followed through on that in an evidence-based and informed way in terms of those who made recommendations to the Minister to come forward with proposals for the rental sector. I get the sense all the time that no matter what Government proposes, the Deputy will oppose it. We need different housing types and apartment types for different cohorts of the population who require accommodation and housing.
5:20 am
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I reject the Taoiseach's misrepresentations of what I said. He is trying to construct a false narrative. Labour has always been constructive from Opposition. Indeed, we supported the Land Development Agency, just as we support the tenant in situ scheme. As the Taoiseach knows, in our manifesto we set out clear plans for housing to ramp up the Land Development Agency to deliver homes at scale and have a State-led approach, of course recognising a role for the private sector but recognising also that the State must take on a much larger role in delivery of homes. I notice the Taoiseach did not mention the revised apartment standards.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
He did not acknowledge the considerable disquiet expressed by the Irish Planning Institute in July when he sought to bring them forward. He did not acknowledge that the institute said it was not convinced the announced changes would bring down development costs or accelerate housing delivery, just as Government's misjudged VAT cut is based on no evidence that there will be any closure of the viability gap or any increase in the building of apartments or the supply of homes that communities need. The Taoiseach knows this.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
His policies have failed.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Actually, no. People are saying the VAT cut will have an impact. The response from the market is quite clear that it is a significant step in narrowing the viability gap to get more apartments built. We gave the Land Development Agency its legislative underpinning-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----and will further add to its role. We have capitalised the LDA very significantly. If you look at the mortgage drawdowns, for example, the percentage increase in first-time buyer mortgage drawdowns has increased significantly from about 23% in 2015 to about 35% today. We are making progress but affordability continues to be an issue. We have a growing population. If we keep on opposing everything-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is what the Deputy is doing, come off it. If we are to hang around, no disrespect to anybody, waiting for this and that institute to get around to building houses, we will be waiting a long time. There has been too much of that in this country.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We need to build 50,000 to 60,000 per annum. We will not get there with Labour's policies.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about the Government's climbdown on the apartment guidelines?
Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In the lead-up to the last general election, the Taoiseach cynically misled the public about how many homes would be delivered. This was a blatant attempt to give the impression he was turning the corner on housing delivery. In reality, he was driving it off a cliff. We were told 40,000 homes would be delivered in 2024; in fact, it was 30,300, nearly 25% short of the target. The Taoiseach and Government have been consistently moving the goalposts when it comes to housing targets. Now, in the most blatant move to avoid accountability yet, they have elected to take the goalposts off the pitch entirely because not only have they removed annual targets from their long-awaited, much-hyped housing plan but the overall target goes beyond the lifetime of the Government. I have to ask: is the Taoiseach actually serious?
It is clear to everyone paying attention that the housing Minister is bereft of new ideas, dusting off old policy measures that have demonstrably failed. The Government wanted to reduce apartment sizes to reduce costs, something that has been tried not once but twice: Deputy Alan Kelly did it first when he was housing Minister in 2015, followed by Eoghan Murphy in 2018. It did not work on either of those occasions. I know, the Taoiseach knows and we all know it will not work now. The Government had a chance to abandon those plans this week when it was forced to withdraw them at the High Court but we are told it is still determined to plough on.
Tens of thousands of people across this country were hoping against hope for a radical reset of housing policy. With this plan, they are left with their head in their hands. Under the Government's latest so-called affordable housing scheme, a minimum salary of €56,000 is required to buy a one-bed apartment. What is affordable about that? That is too expensive for teachers, retail workers, gardaí, nurses and the vast majority of workers on average incomes. The Taoiseach's old plans failed these people and let us face it: the new one will too.
The Government has no credibility on housing. Its record is one of continued failure and continued refusal to acknowledge it, no matter how bad things get but strip away all the spin and this is what the latest housing plan amounts to: a public declaration of failure. Instead of changing course, it is trying to avoid being held to account, removing targets so it is easier to disguise its failure. You could not make it up. How many homes will the Government deliver over its lifetime?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government has set a target of 300,000 houses over the lifetime of this plan.
Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, that is until 2030.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry, the Deputy has had her say. I say this respectfully to the Deputy. She uses language about a "radical reset of housing policy". What in the name of God does it mean? The Deputy has never put any flesh on the bone of anything she has ever proposed. She is bereft of policy. What is the radical reset? Spell it out.
Conor Sheehan (Limerick City, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is in the Housing Commission report.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
All I ever get from Deputy Cairns's party is, "We're against this, we're against that, we're opposing that and we're doing that", for the past number of years.
Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will send the Taoiseach a copy if he likes.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It does not have a radical policy. It is nice language. It appeals to those who, without question, are under pressure, but there is no substance or depth to it.
Michael Healy-RaeMicheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Absolutely none. By the way, under Housing for All, we exceeded our targets - an inconvenient truth for the Opposition. The problem was people then said the targets were not high enough.
Conor Sheehan (Limerick City, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government missed its social housing targets.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The bottom line is the population is growing exponentially and has grown. The pressures are enormous. We need to build at scale and at pace. The housing plan has substance in it in terms of proposals to do that. We did not wait for it. We decided straight in to do, for example, the national planning framework to get more land zoned for housing. Deputy Cairns will have problems with that on the ground and no doubt her people will oppose it where there is extra zoning and so on.
In terms of apartments, we are not standing still and just looking at a problem. We come up with proposals and ideas but people from the Opposition will get into the courts and try to stem those. The apartment guidelines are one strand among a series of measures we are taking to get to the volume needed. We have moved. When the Government came in in 2020, only 20,000 houses were being built per year; now it is 30,000-odd but it needs to get to 50,000. That will need a combination of public investment at unprecedented levels, which is provided for in the national development plan and in our budget, and significant private sector finance. The only thing the Deputy has come up with is a savings and investment scheme. That is fine; in a couple of years' time that might be useful. It will not do anything now in terms of funding investment of houses.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government does not even have it in the plan.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It will not build a house this year, next year or the year after.
Conor Sheehan (Limerick City, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It would if the Government had started it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is about the only concrete thing I have seen coming from Deputy Cairns's party in respect of a proposal. We have provided huge amounts of State funding. We need more private sector funding, particularly in apartments in cities.
We have also decided as a Government to invest huge moneys in water services, the national grid, public transport and roads to enable the construction of houses in cities and towns across the country. The issue will be delivering that. That means a more agile and effective planning system, which we provided for in legislation that the Social Democrats opposed. That needs to happen.
Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The only thing more predictable than this Government's plans failing is the Taoiseach's weekly attempt to come in here and blame the Opposition, the planning system or the courts for a mess of the Government's own creation.
The fact is the Government is driving housing off a cliff and the best the housing Minister can do is to tell people to hang in there. Hang in there and do what exactly? Should they hang in there and pay rents of €2,000 or €3,000 per month indefinitely? Should they hang in there and pay €500,000 for what the Government calls a starter home? At what point will the Government admit its plan is not working and listen to some of the ideas coming from the Social Democrats? We have continually proposed policy measures that would make a huge difference. The Taoiseach mentioned the State savings scheme. That is not in the plan. We put forward suggestions like the State acquiring a modular homes factory, zoning land for affordable housing and introducing a vacancy tax with teeth.
5:30 am
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are zoning land.
Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The list goes on and on. The Government votes them down consistently. I will ask again. What are the Government's targets for the lifetime of this Government, not to 2030?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On the scale of Ireland's ambition and the targets we have set, if you compare our housing plan targets with the United Kingdom, Germany or the Netherlands, on a per capita basis, our targets are nearly double their targets in terms of what they propose. Ours are approximately 9.3 per 1,000. The United Kingdom's is 4.5, Germany's is 4.8 and the Netherlands is 5.5. No one matches the ambition of this country in terms of house construction and planning-----
Pearse DohertyMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Taoiseach is delusional.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----and when it comes to delivery, in 2024-----
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is not Sinn Féin's question
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We know where we stand.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In 2024, of 23 European countries, Ireland had the second highest housing supply per capita.
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government failed.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Therefore, in terms of targets and delivery-----
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The targets were down.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----we are to the fore across the EU.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
However, we need to do it at pace and with higher numbers. We want to get to 50,000. Genuinely-----
Holly Cairns (Cork South-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will the Taoiseach answer the question?
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How many did the Government get last year?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I see nothing in the Social Democrats' presentation.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Taoiseach did not read it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The savings and investments thing would take years to realise funding-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----which is not the immediate issue, by the way.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The funding is going in. If people could only allow housing in our country----
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government is ignoring the ideas.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----in terms of the planning process, objections, judicial reviews and the rest of it.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Thank you, Taoiseach. Your time is up.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not see judicial reviews as a badge of honour, as Deputy Bacik does. I see them as a problem.
Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Taoiseach has given up on its own plan already. Where are the targets?
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I call Deputy Paul Gogarty. Thank you.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I like a bit of banter.
The EPA's 2025 water quality report highlights that agricultural pressures, particularly from nitrogen and phosphorous - I will focus on nitrogen - from livestock manure, fertilisers, etc., remain the dominant threat to our rivers, lakes and especially our estuaries. The nitrates directive has been talked about for many years and Ireland's derogation is central to the findings in this and previous reports because stricter limits are now absolutely required to protect our water quality. This 2025 report shows that while some improvements have been made in specific areas, the excess nutrients continue to degrade our water quality.
These elevated nitrogen levels are particularly evident in the south and south east. That is no surprise as it is where the most intensive dairy farming is concentrated. These regions that are most affected by the nitrates derogation allow certain farms to exceed the standard limit of 170 kg of nitrogen per hectare. Under EU rules, the derogation farms in these sensitive catchments must now reduce their stocking rates from 250 kg to 220 kg, which is a recognition by the EU that we have to come down because we were not making any progress.
The report stresses that 44,000 sq. km of land has been identified as requiring additional measures to meet the EU water quality standards. The European Commission has also expanded its criteria for Ireland's derogation renewal, demanding not only progress on water quality but also conservation of designated habitats and species, which underscores how the nitrates directive and other environmental obligations such as the habitats directive are interconnected. Our whole environment is interconnected. It is not possible to put excrement on land at a certain quantity without it having an impact on the quality of the lives of all our citizens, especially young children who are most affected by nitrates.
The expansion of dairy farming is linked to the nutrient surpluses. If our dairy industry is not sustainable, we need to focus on lower intensity, organic quality produce for export. We are now the only EU country still seeking a derogation. Denmark, for example, has an intensive agricultural system but does not have a derogation. Therefore, we need to continue to reduce our nitrates or we will lose any flexibility we had and face tougher EU sanctions. We have the nitrates action programme but it is not enough. The consultation period ends on 1 December. Is the Government seriously considering getting rid of our derogation?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government is seeking an extension of the nitrates derogation. It is a critical element of the economic sustainability of many farmers, many family farms and the broader rural economy. However, we have established a water quality Cabinet subcommittee. There will be a new nitrates action plan and a new plan on habitats and so forth. We are different from other countries in Europe. Our farm system is unique in being a pasture-based outdoor system, with cows based outside 240 days per year on average. That is in contrast with other EU countries that have an intensive indoor system, with cattle not being outdoors very often.
It is a priority of the Government to secure a nitrates derogation but to do so in a way that will enable Ireland to meet its obligations on water quality. Farming has improved significantly and a lot of new measures have been adopted by the farming community in respect of climate change more generally and in terms of water quality. Many farmers do a lot of work in terms of assessment and measuring. I have been on farms and in catchment areas where water quality is measured every ten minutes. Many people operating under the derogation have more sophisticated systems in place to try to monitor their water quality.
Ireland is strong in food production and we need to move in a direction that brings people with us but also enables us to comply with the various water quality frameworks and directives and to do so in a way that maintains a sustainable food production system, and dairy system in particular. I have discussed this with the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen. The EU Commissioner for the environment, Jessika Roswall, visited Ireland on 4 November to witness first hand our grass-based system and the importance of our derogation. The Minister, Deputy Heydon, attended and engaged with the Commissioner. There has been a lot of stakeholder engagement with the Government and Departments in respect of this. Farmers are doing a lot to reduce agriculture's impact on water quality and will be doing more. They will have to do more in that regard.
We are looking a more detailed programme to enable all this to happen. This work is continuing. There is continuing engagement between the Government, the European Union and the Commission about this issue-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----and we know it has to be in compliance with the habitats directive in addition to meeting the objective of the water framework directive.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is not really possible to talk about economic sustainability without environmental sustainability because the true cost of doing that business is not being taken into consideration. It is also about the impact on our tourism offering and jobs for people in rural areas and our viability as an industrial location in terms of our water quality. Many other factors are involved. Our healthcare system is also affected and the cost of our healthcare system is affected when our rivers are not at optimal quality. The Government can wheel in as many senior officials from the European Commission as it likes to witness first hand our outdoor grass-based system but in reality the system is not working. We are just kicking the can down the road. Are we hanging on a bit like climate change to see whether Europe will water things down? I note that at the last EU nitrates committee meeting member states voted to approve the use of processed manure above excess nitrogen limits. We should be showing leadership. We can be sustainable, profitable and show leadership.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are showing leadership. Our dairy and beef production system is probably one of the more carbon efficient systems in Europe and the world. That is the other side of the coin.
I am not saying the Deputy is saying this but essentially the import of what he is saying would be to shut down our farming, dairy production and food production system. That would allow less carbon-efficient systems to fill the gap. I do not believe that is logical either. We should not dismiss - I am not saying the Deputy is doing this, to be fair - the fact that food security is becoming an issue because of climate. I accept the point about complementarity, that there is balance in all of this. To the Deputy's fundamental point, I accept that environmental sustainability is important, and is not separate from economic sustainability, but we are endeavouring to create a pathway to environmental sustainability in the context of food production that reflects economic sustainability as an imperative as well.