Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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76. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the actions his Department is undertaking to deliver contactless payments on all public transport; the estimated timeline for the introduction of same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [63320/25]

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister of State outline the actions his Department has undertaken to deliver contactless payments on all public transport and the estimated timeline for the introduction of this?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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Like the Deputy, I am eager to see next generation ticketing rolled out on the Irish public transport system. I look forward to seeing its introduction as part of BusConnects Dublin before ultimately being delivered across the entire public transport network. Many people have seen contactless ticketing systems in other countries and feel like it is taking a long time to deliver here. As I have previously explained, which was in the reply to another question I did not have to answer, we introduced the new Leap ticketing system as the financial crisis took hold and investment in updated ticketing technology was held back. The good news is that we now have the funding available to make the move to new ticketing technology and the National Transport Authority, NTA, has entered into a contract with Indra to deliver the project.

The initial focus of the project is on the greater Dublin area, to be rolled out in four phases. This is a major, complex project, with an estimated capital cost of over €160 million to implement it in the greater Dublin area alone. Phase 1 is due to launch in September 2027. It will test contactless payment on a number of new validators or ticket machines. Phase 2 will be ready in summer 2028, allowing passengers on Dublin's bus and Luas services to use the next generation ticketing technology, including contactless payments on validators. Plans for phases 3 and 4 remain under development at the moment.

The project’s governance structure is in line with the governance requirements of the infrastructure guidelines and, as an ICT project, it has been subject to appropriate scrutiny under Circular 02/2016.

At a recent meeting with the NTA, the Minister emphasised the project's importance to the travelling public. He is looking forward to rolling out next generation ticketing over the next years.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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It is disappointing to hear that this important development will not be rolled out for a number of years. As the Minister of State said, many other countries have had contactless payment options rolled out for years. However, we are still waiting for a trial run for the Dublin bus network, never mind elsewhere in the State. It is reflective of the wider failure of the current and previous Governments to keep up with technological advances. Another example of this is that TFI currently has five different smartphone apps for different public transport services, including a journey planner app, a Leap card top-up app, a taxi driver database app, an app for public transport tickets and an app for local services in certain parts of the State. Clearly, there is a need to amalgamate some of these apps to make getting public transport a more user-friendly and accessible experience. Are there are any plans to streamline these apps? Does the Minister of State intend to engage with the NTA on this?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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With next generation ticketing, there is much to take into account, since the scope of what it will deliver covers all public services, buses, trams and train stations, including bus validators, ticket machines, ticket vending machines, station gates, tram and train platform validators, and an account-based ticketing solution delivered on modern cloud-hosting technology. It is important to note that it is not just a matter of giving somebody a card or going contactless. This is next generation ticketing and it will be used for a good number of years. It is not like a Leap card system, which is very simple. It is important to make sure that whatever we use is fit for purpose and is tested before it is rolled out fully. It is better to do it right and make sure it is right at the end.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Minister of State to comment on the streamlining of the various apps that exist to make it an easier experience for commuters. In addition, making a virtual Leap card available would be a major step forward in making the public transport system more user-friendly. The Leap card was first launched in 2011, for the Dublin area, and 14 years on, there is still no digital or virtual version available. Such digital cards exist in many cities around the world. They include the Clipper card in San Francisco and the Presto card in Toronto. Are there plans as part of this to develop a digital or virtual Leap card? Is there any timeline for same?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I will have to check that out for the Deputy and see what plans there are. When we are introducing a new system like this, as has often been seen in the past, if it is not done right, it can cause huge problems and there can be significant anxiety and frustration when the system is not working right. The idea is to introduce a small number of bus, tram and train validators, test them and prove their functionality first. It is important that we do that before committing to large-scale deployment.

I agree with the Deputy that we were slow to get to this. Owing to what happened in the economy in 2007 and 2008, this was put on the back burner because it was not deemed to be essential. Nowadays, with the demand for public transport and people wanting to use it, we have to provide this technology to make sure that people get tickets and get onto trains, buses and trams with ease.