Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for being here this morning to take this matter. If he does not mind, I will refer to two separate matters. The first is the story in this morning’s newspaper to the effect that delays with funerals are feared as Waterford Hospital is to end coroner-requested autopsies. The article in question refers to a global shortage of pathologists, which means there will be further delays.

I tabled this matter on the basis of my own experience. The matter revolves around the number of leave days available to a person who is bereaved. If we take the civil and public service as having the best bereavement leave entitlement, we find that a person is entitled to five days leave on the loss of a mother or father. I had that experience recently when my mam died. She died on a Wednesday. She was not cremated until the following Wednesday, which, to put it in bald terms, would have put anyone with only five days' bereavement leave in a situation whereby they would have to go back to work. If you take the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, that is three days. If you take the Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of the following week, that is six days in total. Even if you get one force majeure day and you take five, it is quite possible to find yourself in a situation where you do not have enough leave. This is not about me. It only came to my attention because it happened to me. It was something I had not thought about at all. You might not be able to go back to work, but you might be someone who has to do so. If you are lucky - and lucky is the word - you get five days' leave.

This is not a plea for additional leave days, because I do not think that is the solution. Culturally in this country, there is a short time between the death and the cremation or burial. As a result, there will be a particular impact if the delays to which I referred occur. I was thinking about it and talking to members of my family. I could not have gone back to work; it would just not have been possible. I am very lucky, however. I have Marian and Freya in my office. They and all of my colleagues together made sure the work was done. I am very lucky, but there are an awful lot of people who are not.

Imagine you are working as a nurse. I am sure that when you go onto the ward, your colleagues are of course going to be lovely to you, mind you and all of that, but you might not have a choice. You might not have any annual leave left. This is to bring attention to the impact of these possible delays. It is not a plea for more leave, because I do not think that is the issue. There is a cultural expectation. When you talk to people from other places they say "Gosh, it is very fast". Culturally, however, that is how it is done in this State. It really shocked me when I realised that even had I taken one day of force majeure leave and five bereavement leave days, I would have had to returned to work the day after my mam’s funeral. I physically would not have been able to do so. Had I not had the leave, however, I would have had to return. Coming up to Christmas, people might keep leave because they have to have it for the festive period. In some employments, the boss will tell their employees that they have to keep some leave days to cover that period. Someone may find themselves in a situation where they simply do not have the leave.

I tabled this matter to spark a discussion. I do not expect the Minister of State will have the answers this morning, but I had resolved, when I was able, to raise this issue on the floor of the Dáil. I spoke to a number of people, including the funeral directors. We had that conversation, so I am making good on a commitment that was given.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I had not realised that her mam had passed. She has my condolences and sincere sympathies in that regard. I thank her for sharing her personal experience in the aftermath of the event that is informing our discussion this morning.

I am responding on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Jim O’Callaghan. I hope to be able to provide some clarity on some issues and guidance on where we go from here. The Coroner Service comprises a network of coroners in districts throughout the country. A coroner is an independent officeholder who performs a public service by making inquiries into reported deaths. While recognising the significance and sensitivity of the coronial investigation process for loved ones of the bereaved, neither the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration nor his Department can interfere with a coroner in the exercise of their statutory function to investigate deaths. The Department has direct responsibility for providing financial and administrative support to the Dublin District Coroner’s Office since January 2018. Outside Dublin, the relevant local authorities fund the costs of all other coronial districts.

The Minister is aware that the provision of post-mortem examination services nationwide is a significant area of concern at present. As the Deputy noted, pathologists provide the post-mortem examination service on what is known as a grace-and-favour basis. This is resulting in delays for the conduct of such examinations in some parts of the country. Several hospitals in Dublin no longer provide autopsy services to support the work of the Coroner Service.

This is causing undue pressure on the system and can cause delays in the conduct of post-mortem examinations in Dublin.

In late 2024, University Hospital Waterford, UHW, advised the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration that it intends to withdraw its autopsy service for all coroner-directed autopsies from 1 January 2026. It is understood that there are nine sanctioned posts in UHW for pathologists, however only six are filled. The team at UHW has advised the Department of challenges in filling the remaining three posts. Of the six filled posts, three of the consultants are understood to have decided not to conduct autopsies, meaning that only three consultants are available to conduct in the region of 700 autopsies per year.

A pathologist contract does not currently include an obligation to conduct post-mortem examinations, hence what is known as the grace-and-favour model. The Department is ready to assist in finding a solution to this issue in advance of the 1 January deadline. As the post-mortem examination service is largely provided through the health service, a solution clearly cannot be found without significant input and engagement on the part of the HSE. The Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration will continue to engage with the Department of Health on this issue in order to assist in improving the delivery of this service, which is of critical importance to bereaved families who are engaged with the Coroner Service.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for the reply and also for the confirmation that the Department is ready to assist. The purpose of raising this issue was to ensure that the impact on families will be taken into account. I can see from the reply that the Minister of State is aware of that, but I urge that the practical impact on individuals be factored into the negotiations. As a former trade union official, I cannot believe I am standing here and saying that I am not looking for additional leave. It is not about that, however, it is about the process. I had a chance to discuss the delays with some people. What I say is purely anecdotal. I posit no scientific evidence for this. Sometimes the delays can cause a bit of uncertainty because if a State case comes in, it could push back the release of a loved one's remains, which can have a knock-on effect. The fact is that people are in limbo. It is very individual in nature. We are never going to settle on the right number of leave days. How long does it take to deal with grief? It takes forever. I speak about the capacity of people to be able to go back to work.

Had I been required to be back in work on the Thursday for monetary reasons - to be brutally frank, in a way we are lucky that we can do a job that we love, but a lot of people work for the money not for the love of it - I do not think I would have been able. There is an inability to not go back to work. The fact is that I went back to work on the Friday but that was my choice. I wanted to do it. I had the luxury of additional time off, which a lot of people do not have. They dread the thought of having to go back into work. I want to put that on the Government's radar so that it is factored into the discussions.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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I assure Deputy O'Reilly that our Department is committed to driving the modernisation of the Coroner Service in Ireland, including Dublin, where she outlined the issues many families are experiencing, including her own. The Department has received approval from the Government to draft the general scheme of a Bill to significantly reform the Coroner Service in order to increase efficiencies and minimise the impact of the death investigation process on bereaved people and their families. The heads of the Bill, which will be brought to the Government before the end of the year, will aim to address all aspects of the Coroner Service, including the establishment of an independent office of the chief coroner, who will be responsible for setting standards, providing guidance and overseeing the activities of full-time salaried coroners modelled in line with best practice internationally.

Other proposals include reform of the current approach to the provision of coroner-directed autopsies to ensure that families across Ireland have equal access to pathology services and do not experience unnecessary delays. The Coroners (Amendment) Act 2024, which was signed into law in February of last year, makes provision for the assignment and appointment of temporary coroners where workload demands warrant such an assignment. This ensures that there will be adequate coronial provision in all districts pending the reform of the service to which I alluded earlier. I hope that helps.