Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I am conscious of the discussion we have just had. I want to put on the record of the House my support, the same as the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste today, for the fact that there was an attempted focus on humanitarian aid that is necessary for Gaza, and thank the Tánaiste and his officials for all the work they are doing in delivering consular assistance for Irish citizens and for drawing broader international attention to what is happening in those waters at present.

As well as that, I put on the record of the House my condemnation of the absolute horror that has unfolded in the Manchester synagogue this morning and the loss of life there. As has been said, if antisemitism is the motive behind this attack, that should be roundly condemned.

I turn, with the indulgence of the House, towards a topic that has been raised by me as a constituency TD but also as someone who is a public representative. That is the need to ensure that no people are left behind as we move towards digital first service delivery. This is especially with regard to our older citizens and those who face barriers to accessing online services. Over the past two months alone, in my constituency office, we have seen real examples of exclusion. A major telecom provider now insists on charging €5.50 a month for paper bills for pensioners, which is a financial penalty for simply not being online. One constituent struggled for weeks to cancel a TV service because the support channels were not open and available to them. They had to contact my office to get assistance in cancelling that TV service. Others contact us frequently to say they are waiting for long times on phone chats or phone lines with chat bots without necessarily getting the support and understanding that they need. Even with things like housing adaptation grant applications, there are complex forms with very little understanding or insight about how to complete them properly.

This is not about saying that the digital advance must be slowed or that we should not be looking to improve digital skills among older people, but it is about independence, securing dignity and fairness for all our citizens. Many older people are proud of their independence and might not necessarily want to ask for help, but when services only go online, they face an immediate barrier. We know that we face challenges with the prevalence of digital skills among older people. The prevalence of basic digital literacy skills among over-65s in Ireland is at 19%, below the EU average of 25%. In Ireland, six out of ten adults over 60 are ones who do not consider themselves to ordinarily use the Internet or have basic digital skills.

I am sure the Tánaiste would agree that technology should open doors, not necessarily close them, but we need to combine digital innovation with inclusive, respectful support. By backing initiatives like Age Action's getting started, or ALONE's digital champion workshops, we can make sure that these are available in every community, and also ensure that we put a safety net in place for those older citizens who may not necessarily feel comfortable with an increasingly online world. In the absence of the skills that they need to engage with those services, companies in the private sector and the public sector should show compassion in dealing with those older people and ensure there is support for them so that they are able to access the services that they need and, in many cases, the services that they rely on.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Moynihan for his kind words about the officials in my Department and the work that they are endeavouring to carry out, particularly those in Israel, Ramallah and in the region, and indeed our consular services here in Dublin. I am grateful for all they do and appreciate the Deputy's words. I join him in expressing our sincere sympathies and condolences to those affected by the most horrific murder and killings outside a synagogue in Manchester. It is a horrific situation and we all deplore and condemn it. We think of all those affected.

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue, as we see more and more things move online, that we do not lose sight of the fact that we need to bring everybody with us. It can be quite a scary and frightening time of transition for people if they do not feel they have the skills to transition, or indeed the option, if they do not wish to transition, to continue to access their services in a way that is convenient and works for them.

We are planning to update the national digital and AI strategy. A new, refreshed version of that is due by the end of the year. I will ask the relevant Ministers, Deputies Burke and Niamh Smyth, to take on board the Deputy's suggestions about that and the good work that has been done by Age Action Ireland, which the Deputy referred to as well. I know this is an issue that faces so many of our citizens. It is vital that, as we shape Ireland's digital future, we do not leave people behind. The Government is encouraging a digital first, but not a digital only, approach from businesses, as some citizens like to have different options. It is important even in my Department, with our passport service. So much is now done online but there will always be some people, certainly for the time ahead, who may not wish to do it online. That is okay too and we need to support them in that.

Having said that, there is growing consumer demand for digital accessibility. Companies and public services are responding to those customer and citizen demands. Digitalisation has played a major role, as the Deputy says, in driving efficiencies for business, improving productivity, for marketing, selling online, and accessing new markets, but equally important is customer service and meeting customer and citizen expectations. There is a balance. Getting that feedback and listening to our citizens, and from a company's point of view, listening to its customers, is important.

The Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment has introduced a new charter focused on AI and digital literacy and SME digitalisation. This represents the implementation of a key measure under what we call the digital for good initiative, which emphasises the importance of access and affordability and ensuring that all citizens can have equitable access to digital technologies and the opportunities they bring.

When we talk about digital exclusion, what we are hearing more and more from people is that it is not about a lack of devices or a lack of access to the Internet, though that can sometimes be the issue, but that it is about lacking the skills to use them effectively. The charter for digital inclusion commits to a number of actions to try to make progress there. I suggest that we take this and the suggestions from Deputy Moynihan forward in our new, refreshed national digital and AI strategy.

I will ask the Minister, Deputy Burke, and the Minister of State, Deputy Niamh Smyth, to engage with the Deputy on the framing of that.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Tánaiste's utterance that it will be a digital first as opposed to a digital only approach. It is important to acknowledge that for many older people, these barriers they perceive to entering a digital world can be ones they do not feel comfortable expressing. That is why any services we design to embrace those people and bring them in should be designed to be proactive and offer that help in a way that feels respectful, discreet and empowering. I encourage the reframing of the strategy with the Minister, Deputy Burke, and the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, on which I would welcome engagement, around the option of maintaining the option of paper billing for those who might not have access to a computer or who may not have the digital skills they need to access the online services. There should also be clear guidance from ComReg in particular with regard to telecoms providers. In many services, as the Tánaiste states, there is a consumer demand. There are also many services, which are essential for older people. Especially in an older population where we know loneliness is a real issue, communications is an important service they rely on. There needs to be proactive guidance from ComReg on that, and on ensuring that where available, face to face and human phone-based supports can remain essential access routes.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I agree with all of that, and I will ask the Minister for communications to make the point Deputy Moynihan to ComReg. I can say, as a relatively young person that there is a place for technology, but sometimes you just want to be able to talk to a human being. There are some things that AI and other technologies cannot do yet at least. Emotional intelligence is quite important as well. Sometimes it can be a hell of a lot quicker to have a conversation with someone and sort it, rather than half a dozen messages to a chatbot. There is definitely a balance with regard to this. There is a direction of travel. We are living through a major time of evolution and some good will come from that. However, we need to not lose the essence of who we are and what public service means, in particularly, but also that businesses do not deprive themselves of customers who want to still be able to access services in a way that works for them. I look forward to the new refreshed national digital and AI strategy. I will also, as per Deputy Moynihan's suggestion, ask that ComReg take a look at this from a telecom providers point of view.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Talking to one another might become a popular thing to do again.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is always a pleasure to talk to you.