David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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76. To ask the Minister for Health if she will consider an independent public inquiry into scandals at Children’s Health Ireland; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [52528/25]

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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My first question relates to the need for a public inquiry into spinal surgeries for children with scoliosis and spina bifida at CHI. I note the Minister met Harvey Morrison Sherratt's family with the Tánaiste recently and it seems a commitment was given to an inquiry. Will the Minister inform the House as to what form that inquiry will take and what her view of the timeframe will be in the terms of reference?

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. He is correct. On Monday, the Tánaiste and I met with the parents of Harvey Morrison Sherratt, along with other advocates who were there to support the family. The Tánaiste and I listened carefully to what his parents said. It must have been a particularly difficult time, as all of this period has been for them, but also recognising it has been two months since the death of their little boy. At the meeting, it was agreed that we would work in partnership on the structure of an inquiry into spina bifida and complex scoliosis services at CHI. As the Deputy will be aware, there are a number of different models of inquiry and investigation. I have committed to scoping out the different models that are possible and the pros and cons of each of those models, while recognising that some of them have limitations, and to presenting that back to the parents and the advocates. It is important we would have a follow-up meeting when they have had the opportunity to reflect on that therefore it is my intention to write to them within two weeks and then to meet them a week after that. I have a little bit of work to do on that yet. The inquiry will be part of the wider reflection on paediatric services in CHI. The Deputy and the House will be aware that there is an important audit going on into waiting list equity or equity of access to the waiting lists in some of these services. It is important to say that. There is also the CHI oversight improvement steering group which is working regularly and oversees the implementation of the range of different reports of which the House is already aware, including the HIQA review. It will also oversee upcoming reports, including the Nayagam review, and a range of other measures.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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There are different models but it is important that this is an inquiry. That is what families are looking for. Obviously, there are different types of inquiries. We have seen in the past where inquiries were promised and they end up being reviews and investigations, very similar to the Nayagam review which is ongoing and still has not been published. This inquiry has to be comprehensive. It has establish all of the facts. It has to look at the full range of services and it has to achieve accountability, wherever that lands us; whether that is political, within CHI or governance. We know that this is not just about surgeries. They are vital. Children were failed in relation to not getting surgeries on time. We know that. Far too many children were waiting. However, there are also issues regarding urology services, pre-care, aftercare and all of that. That has to form part of any review. It is really important for all of those children in the first instance that that inquiry happens, but it is equally important that we also invest in services and ensure in the here and now that children are getting timely access to care.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Yes, it would be my intention, irrespective of the form of investigation or inquiry, that it would be comprehensive in the way the Deputy has outlined, that it would be transparent and that it would be an inquiry that is also capable of making recommendations, as the parents and advocates have looked for. As he will be aware, in some forms of inquiry where information is presented during the inquiry, it can never be used in other proceedings. I am very conscious, for example, of a comparable model in relation to Limerick where there are disciplinary proceedings happening. That has never happened in the health service before.

The Frank Clarke report did not step over that, but a different form of inquiry would have stepped over that and precluded some of those disciplinary proceedings continuing. That is the balance I am trying to strike. Again, this is for a discussion with the advocates and with the person who will, ultimately, be in charge of this. It will be intended to have a senior legal figure and a clinical leader of this inquiry. It is very important that we get their perspectives as well on what is likely to work, what is going to be the right timeframe, what is capable of being comprehensive, and not precluding other proceedings that may be appropriate.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Part of the problem here is that we have had almost a decade of failure and broken promises, some of which it must be said were political promises, and in more recent times a lack of transparency from Children's Health Ireland. Those very same families the Minister has met, and those parents and advocates she would meet, have been screaming from the rooftops about governance failures at CHI for many years. Many of their children are part of what is called the Dickson report, and I know that CHI has given a reason as to why it feels that report cannot be published. I have said there is absolutely no reason the contents of that report cannot be shared with the families whose children were part of that. There is a reference to what are called "orphan" children, who are children that fell through the cracks and were not getting the appropriate care. They were not under the appropriate consultant, be it a urologist or orthopaedic surgeon, and they simply fell through the cracks. These are children with spina bifida and scoliosis who at the time were waiting for procedures. I believe that trust is at an all time low. Trust is on the floor for many of these parents and there is an awful lot of work to do to repair and restore that trust. This is why I appeal to the Minister to make sure that whatever inquiry is put in place is the most robust it can be to get answers to the questions that need to be answered and, as important, to actually put the services in so that no other child has to wait as long as Harvey, and far too many other children, did.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Again, I agree with the Deputy. On the Dickson report I will provide a note to Deputies on this. There is a follow-up process with those families. I do not have the details to hand but I would like to provide that information to them.

Deputy Cullinane is absolutely right about developing services now. An inquiry should not prohibit or preclude that. He will be aware that I have strengthened very considerably the board of CHI with appointments most recently, and in particular with Fergus Finlay who is a very strong advocate in this space, and who I know will be a very strong advocate on the board and hold CHI very strongly to account, especially in relation to spinal services. As I said at yesterday's health committee meeting, I am really not satisfied with this year's performance. I cannot account for the reduction in the number of families travelling abroad. It is not clear to me how that is being offered to them, at what stage it is being offered to them or the breadth with which it is being offered. I am pleased that the adolescent complex surgeries have begun in the Mater. This is after a period when they were being paid for and not being done. Since July it has now been agreed that these will be done, and I am trying to see what options I have, domestically and internationally, that go beyond what we currently have to see how we can do more. I will report back to the House on that. I do not have an answer on that yet.