Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I thank him for being here. We mentioned during our Private Members' business debate the other week that many families are being left in complete distress as a result of what I consider, being kind, the inefficiencies within the NCSE.

A fortnight ago I raised the case of Sonny McElvaney from my constituency with the Minister of State. He is a young boy who has significant additional needs. He has made huge progress, more than anybody would ever have envisaged, largely due to the efforts of his parents, especially his mother. His mother is very proactive. She engaged with the NCSE last November to inform its officials that her child would be attending school, to identify the school of choice and to state categorically the child would not be able to attend school unless he had one-on-one SNA support. That was not her view and she would say she did not like having to come to that view, but it was the view she had received from the professionals who had dealt with Sonny.

She contacted me in June. It is October today and from last November she had been engaged with the NCSE. In June, she told me the NCSE had been in touch with the school and the likely decision was the school would be asked to split the one SNA it currently has between two children and that simply was not possible. I will give an outline of how frustrating this must be for parents because it has been frustrating for me as an elected representative who deals with official bodies all the time. I contacted the NCSE immediately after that. That is going back to 6 June. I indicated there was substantial evidence to say Sonny required one-on-one supervision and an assistant and would need a full-time SNA. I received an acknowledgement from the NCSE. A couple of days later I sent it the occupational therapist, OT, assessment that had been carried out, again stating the need categorically. On 19 June, I had reason to meet NCSE officials and provided additional substantive documentation. I later sent correspondence from the school, with the permission of the other child's parents, that showed that child needed a full-time SNA. On 9 July, I received an email from the NCSE which referred to my previous correspondence. I am sorry; it was on 14 July the NCSE confirmed an appeal had been received and an outcome would issue before the end of July. On 25 July, I asked whether there was any update on that. On 1 August, I got notice from the NCSE that the school's submission would have an outcome likely next month. On 11 August, the family was contacted by a Fine Gael representative, not by the NCSE, to tell them the appeal had been unsuccessful. It took until 12 August for that to be officially notified to the school by the NCSE. Correspondence was ongoing constantly with the NCSE. On 20 August, I sought, on behalf of Sonny's family, an urgent meeting with the NCSE-----

Aidan Farrelly (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----and I received a response on 21 August that basically said------

Aidan Farrelly (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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You can come back, Deputy.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----no further application or information is required at this time. I am only halfway through this story. Can the Minister of State see the frustration this family is going through, which I share?

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. The question was about the impact of the delays in the Cavan-Monaghan area. I can speak to the amount of work being done by SNAs, which I have spoken about in response to Deputy Ó Murchú's matter, and the commitment of the Government to SNAs. Special education is built on the huge commitment by SNAs the length and breadth of the country and I thank them for the work they do. The NCSE makes these decisions. When the Deputy was going through the events there, he said he submitted an OT report in relation to Sonny. What date was that report? The Deputy might come back to me in his supplementary contribution. I want to get the facts. I have all the other dates here relating to this case, but the Deputy mentioned he submitted, on behalf of the family, an occupational therapist's report to the NCSE and I would appreciate that. If the Chair will allow I will give time to him to outline the case out of my time. I will endeavour to try to bring this to a satisfactory conclusion.

When parents contact the NCSE about the needs of their children they are constantly asking what the best possible outcome is, whether it is mainstream, a special class or a special school. They are constantly worried about whether the right supports are in the school and whether their child will be able to survive in the school environment. In the cases of a lot of children with additional and complex needs, parents will constantly say that if there is an SNA there, they will be able to encourage the child, help them and ensure they are integrated into the school as best as possible. I understand that. I also understand very specifically the importance of the SNA role in schools and of course for the families as well. I will work with the Deputy. He mentioned this to me during Private Members' business the other week. I will work with him and the NCSE to see if we can get a resolution to this. I can understand the frustration about the dates he has given me. I would appreciate it if he could give me as many of the dates as possible. If he could put the dates on the record, I will endeavour as a matter of urgency to address this. I understand from my previous conversations with the Deputy and with the NCSE that officials were working with the school to resolve these issues. I will go back again. It might be this afternoon before I get a chance to do it, but I will certainly go back to them. I would appreciate it if the Deputy could give the date of the OT's report. Then if there is any further information he wants to put on I will take it on board.

I thank the Minister of State. I sent the OT report to the NCSE on 9 June last year. I do not know whether that report had previously been submitted to the NCSE but I know mountains of documentation were submitted. Just to give a sense of this, after all the assurances that this was going to be dealt with in July, the email I received on 21 August stated:

I appreciate your ongoing attention for the enclosed. Duly confirming as per recent correspondence to the school, all documentation and information relating to the SNA review for the school has been recorded by the NCSE and provided to the SNA review panel. No further application or information is required at this time.

I had to respond to the NCSE to say I did not know what that meant and to ask what I was supposed to tell the family. On 26 August, I received an email from the NCSE stating that it appreciated my follow-up correspondence and confirmed that the outcomes of all outstanding SNA reviews were due to issue to the school as soon as possible in the first week of September. Then we go on, waiting for the first week in September. No update arrived. On 9 September, indication was given to the school that the review was complete and that the school remained at one SNA. The school is back a number of weeks at that stage. Sonny could not go. This child had a full-time SNA in preschool and then it has essentially been withdrawn from him. Since then, we have been trying to raise these issues. In all of the correspondence I receive from the NCSE, officials finished with this absolutely insulting line: "Schools are expected to operate within their existing allocation." There are two children in the school who both need a full-time SNA and there is one SNA. One of the children is going to miss out and at the moment it is Sonny because he is the newest child in the school. When I first started engaging with the NSCE on this particular issue, I thought the case was clear-cut and it was so blatantly obvious that this would be resolved fairly quickly. The fact that it is not concerns me. How many Sonnys are there the length and breadth of the State whose parents do not have the wherewithal or even the energy to knock on the door of their local TDs and have them do some of the fighting for them? If TDs are getting information from the NCSE that is turning out not to be actually what is happening, what are parents being told? That is a serious question. This particular issue needs to be addressed but we need to make sure there are no Sonnys out there who are being denied their school place because of incompetence - and that is what this is.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. First, when a child is in preschool and is availing of the AIM programme, something I noticed when I got this role was that in the Department of children and the Department of Social Protection the information that was across the system was not being shared. Children who are in preschool and availing of the programme should be very much taken into account when they start off in primary school as well.

The Deputy mentioned the dates. I have the dates. The one thing I was not sure of when I went back was if the OT report was only submitted on 9 June, but the Deputy has clarified that. It may have been submitted prior to the application. I will endeavour to go back. I had discussions with the NCSE regarding this issue since he first raised it with me and I will endeavour to bring clarity on it as soon as possible. I take the points he has raised very earnestly and I will endeavour to help in this situation. I give an undertaking to do that and we will come back to him when I have an update.