Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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97. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport for an update on the implementation timeline for the next generation ticketing system; the oversight mechanisms in place to ensure the project is delivered on schedule and within budget; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52160/25]

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Next generation ticketing is something we absolutely need not just in Dublin but all of Ireland. This project was first mooted in 2012, yet here we are in 2025 and we still are waiting. Can the Minister please give us an update as to where we are with this project, the oversight mechanisms and how we can ensure this project is delivered to the new timelines? Can he give us confidence as to when we will see it?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Boland. Like the Deputy, I am eager to see next generation ticketing rolled out on the Irish public transport system. This will be across the whole Twenty-six Counties, across our whole transport system, that is, rail, bus and Luas. I look forward to seeing its introduction as part of BusConnects Dublin before ultimately being delivered across the entire public transport network. I acknowledge there is a sense of frustration among many that contactless systems of payment are not available here as they are in other countries, as well as a sense of frustration at the time it is taking to deliver the system here at home. The fact is we introduced a new ticketing system, Leap, just as the financial crisis took hold and investment in ticketing technology was cut back and took a long time to recover. That is just the truth of it. The good news, however, is that we do now have the funding available to make the move to new technology and the National Transport Authority has entered into a contract with Indra to deliver the project. The initial focus of the project is on the greater Dublin area, rolled out across four phases. This is a major, complex project, with an estimated capital cost of over €160 million to implement it in the greater Dublin area alone. Phase 1 is due to launch in summer 2027, which will test contactless payment on a small number of new validators or ticket machines. As we do this, obviously, we have to keep Leap running as well. Phase 2 will be ready in the summer of 2028, allowing passengers on bus and Luas services to use the next generation ticketing technology, including contactless payments on validators. Plans for phases 3 and 4 are under development. I met Indra and the NTA only a number of weeks ago. I am watching the project very closely myself. I gave a commitment to the House prior to the recess that I would meet the developers of the system and I have done so. I will continue to do so.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister and I appreciate the update. When we look at other cities across Europe, we see they have introduced contactless payments much quicker. Milan did it in 24 months across multimode transport. One of the things I am concerned about is we have a contractor, Indra, who is to work with the NTA to deliver a very complex IT deployment across Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus, Irish Rail, and Luas. It is a very complex IT project. We see Indra already is €40 million over budget on the national train control centre project, as well as two years delayed. We do not have an amazing track record at delivering complex IT projects across the public service.

I appreciate that a lot of money is being invested in this and that the Minister will keep strong oversight of it, but it needs very strong oversight to make sure we do not have the same situation as with the train control centre, that is a €40 million overrun and two-year delay.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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To be fair, the contract was only awarded in August 2024, so that is how long we have been waiting. It is now the end of September 2025. I met the chief executive who came to my offices in Leeson Lane. I put to him the very point the Deputy put about the national train control centre. There are many reasons for that overrun, but it will deliver a state-of-the-art centre. Having said that, the company has delivered ticketless systems across the world and done so very well. I have confidence that it will be able to do so here. I have asked the NTA for monthly reports to give me progress updates. I am also pleased that Indra is now opening new European offices in Dublin, showing commitment to Ireland. While it had staff here, it is now opening full-time offices here, including a new office in Dublin. That is a commitment not only to this project, but to further work it may do. The Deputy can be assured that I am getting monthly reports. I will be meeting the company again early in the new year and we have to hit those timeframes of the phase 1 roll-out.

Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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On the operating model for the NTA, am I right that after the deployment of next generation ticketing, the NTA will be moving from simply doing oversight to directly managing fare collection, system operations and having regulatory oversight? Does this give rise to a conflict of interest between the various roles, particularly when it comes to disputes? Is there a clear operating model for the NTA? Will there be transparent governance structures to make sure there are no conflicts of interest between the various roles? Does the NTA have all the competence and capabilities to deliver the next generation ticketing in conjunction with Indra as well as a fit-for-purpose operating model?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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The NTA has a lot under its remit. I have confidence it will deliver it. I have met the programme manager and have asked many of the questions the Deputy just put. That is my job and I should do so.

It is a significant investment on the part of the Exchequer. It will make a big difference to commuters. I mentioned earlier in responses to colleagues in the House the significant increase in public transport journeys we are seeing. People are responding to affordable, sustainable and punctual public transport. We can always improve and we need to continue to improve. This system will be better than the one that operates in London. People always use the example of Britain. The system that operates in London and other parts of Britain is not countrywide. This will be countrywide on all public transport. It will be on Bus Átha Cliath, Bus Éireann, Luas, DART and intercity rail. It is a significant roll-out and we have to do its while keeping the existing system fully operational. It will also require the replacement of a lot of validators. We will be watching it carefully.