Dáil debates

Thursday, 18 September 2025

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

 

5:15 am

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Tá praghsanna leictreachais le hardú arís agus tá sé seo chun níos mó ná 500,000 teaghlaigh a bhuaileadh. Is cinneadh uafásach é an cinneadh atá déanta ag Fine Gael agus ag Fianna Fáil na creidmheasa fuinnimh a tharraingt siar sa cháinaisnéis. Tá breis agus 300,000 teaghlach nach bhfuil ábalta a gcuid billí leictreachais a íoc ag an phointe seo agus caithfidh an tacaíocht seo a bheith ar fáil sa cháinaisnéis i mí Dheireadh Fómhair.

Workers and families are being absolutely hammered with soaring prices. While the Government acts as if everything is rosy in the garden, the cost-of-living crisis is out of control. Households are under considerable pressure to get by. They are being hit by rip-off prices at every turn. It is rent, food, insurance, petrol and diesel, student fees and local property tax. The cost of everything is sky high. There is no end to it. People cannot catch a breath at the moment. As if things were not bad enough, the big energy companies come along with another big hike in electricity prices just as we head into the darker months of the year.

Energia is going to jack up its electricity prices by 12%. Bord Gáis will increase its prices by over 13%. Pinergy is putting up its prices by over 9%. As we know, households are already paying some of the highest electricity prices in Europe. More than 500,000 customers are going to be hit by these latest increases in the next couple of weeks. Many are now going to be forced to fork out hundreds of additional euro, which is money they simply do not have. The real kicker is that the Government is choosing to make matters worse. At the very time these companies are fleecing people again, the Government has decided to withdraw energy credits in the budget. It is a terrible decision that the Government needs to reverse.

The job of the Government is to shield households from these hikes. That means ending the rip-off, getting prices under control and supporting workers and families in this budget. The Government is doing the exact opposite. It has sat on its hands and is sitting on its hands. All the while, energy companies are making massive profits.

We know that wholesale prices for electricity have fallen since the start of the year so there is absolutely no justification for these companies to be squeezing and gouging their customers as they are doing. It is bare-faced greed and rampant profiteering. Is it any wonder that as we speak 300,000 households cannot pay their electricity bills? The Government has allowed this energy rip-off to go unabated. It has allowed it to happen for many years. It has done nothing to put manners on the energy companies. Not only has it done nothing but it has pushed back against our proposals to get energy prices under control. We proposed giving the energy regulator powers to hold these companies to account but the Government ignored us. We proposed legislation to monitor and regulate standing charges and hedging practices but the Government ignored us. We proposed restructuring the public service obligation, PSO, levy so that large energy users, such as data centres, pay their fair share rather than placing that burden on domestic customers, households and small businesses, but the Government ignored us. It is up to its neck in this rip-off.

It is scandalous that the Government has now come along to tell people that they are on their own. It has allowed the energy companies free rein and now decides to cancel the energy credits on which hard-pressed households have been dependent. Where is the fairness in that? Is the Government not listening to the people? Across the State, people are just about hanging in there. They cannot take much more. Folks are going to come under huge pressure this winter. They are already under huge pressure but are going to come under more pressure. Prices are going up by double digits and the Government is withdrawing electricity credits. It needs to change course. This will be the final straw for many. The Tánaiste needs to wake up, listen to what people are saying and understand what people are facing in respect of this rip-off. Does he now accept, given the raft of energy companies announcing they will increase their prices the week of the budget, that withdrawing the energy credits is a step too far and a decision he will now reverse?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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May I begin by expressing the shock and sadness that we, as a country, are feeling about the deeply tragic and upsetting scene unfolding in Donabate. As a country, we have been gripped for weeks by the search for this missing little boy. Until today, we did not know his name, but we know it now. His name was Daniel. Until today, we had not seen his face, but now the image of this beautiful little boy is seared into our consciousness. I know there is a Garda investigation ongoing into both the scene and the circumstances. That must be allowed to do its work. However, it is fair to say that this is a moment of significant public distress and concern. The State processes must be thorough and robust in establishing all the facts.

I thank Deputy Doherty for raising what is an important issue. I know the cost of energy is a real concern for families across the country. It is a real concern as the evenings get darker and colder. I assure people at home that this Government is taking action to help them with the cost of energy. It is from Monday next week that fuel season begins. From Monday, 22 September and for the next 28 weeks, fuel allowance payments will be paid to over 400,000 homes across the country. The payment is worth approximately €924 in the fuel season. It can be paid in a weekly amount of €33 or two lump-sum payments of just over €460. As a result of decisions we made in the previous budget, more people than ever before will qualify. The Deputy will remember that in the most recent budget, we took decisions that mean the means test exemption, which had applied to people over the age of 70, will now apply to people from the age of 66. I want people at home to know, particularly the most vulnerable and those in most need of assistance, that the fuel allowance season will kick off on Monday. It can be applied for very easily from mywelfare.ie and if you have received the payments in the past, you do not need to reapply.

I also want people to know that we have already taken some other decisions to try to help people more broadly with the cost of energy. We took the decision when we came back into government to extend the 9% VAT rate for gas and electricity. This is providing a relief for both families and businesses. I am not sure whether it was a measure Deputy Doherty was supportive of or had proposed. It is a costly measure but it is absolutely right to lower the VAT rate on people’s bills in the here and now. We did not need to wait for any budget or for the Deputy to stand up on Leaders’ Questions and ask us to do it; we took the decision and have implemented it, and that makes a difference to people’s bills.

Under the national development plan, only before the summer recess we allocated €3.5 billion to EirGrid because we have got to get better in terms of our energy supply in this country, which has a direct knock-on consequence in terms of cost. Crucially, we have established a cross-government energy-affordability task force. The Deputy is right that the cost of energy in this country is too high. The first item with which the task force was charged was to produce an interim report to consider what measures could be taken to support customers this winter, which measures are to be produced and given to the Minister in advance of budget 2026 so they can help inform decisions we take then.

The Deputy is right that we are moving back to an annual budget process this year, but that is not the same as saying we do not intend to take action to help families with the cost of living. However, we have got to take measures that are sustainable and permanent. We are moving away from one-off measures to permanent, sustainable ones. I have given the Deputy a number of examples of practical decisions we have taken. Yes, we are targeting money at those most in need through the fuel allowance – I am sure the Deputy will welcome its expansion and the fact that it will be available from Monday and for the next 28 weeks – and also, more broadly, the 9% VAT rate, which everybody’s bills benefit from. Also, the task force on energy affordability, under the leadership of the Minister, Deputy O’Brien, and chaired by him, brings a range of stakeholders, including the ESRI, together to look at proposals. It is due to report to the Minister very shortly. I want people at home to know that we hear them on the cost of energy and know about the cost of living. It is usually right that you wait for the budget before you criticise it.

Deputy Pearse Doherty: The Tánaiste has made it very clear, and this is why we do criticise his decision, that he is withdrawing energy supports in this year’s budget. People have been depending or relying on these for the past three years.

Even with these and the other measures, including the fuel allowance, which has been in place for years and whose expansion I welcome, 300,000 households today still cannot pay their electricity bills and nearly 200,000 cannot pay their gas bills. The Government has decided, despite the fact that four companies have come out and said they are increasing their prices by double-digit figures on the week of the budget or slightly before it, to say energy credits are not going to make their way into the budget this year. This is the wrong decision.

I am sure the Tánaiste has been listening to the same people who talk to me – people who are pushed to the pin of their collar and know they are being ripped off. They know the big energy companies are ripping them off but the Government has done nothing about it. It has pushed back against the proposals we made to bring the prices under control. It is the same with insurance, rent and food. It is all talk and no action. The one action the Government can carry out that will support people in the here and now is making sure energy credits play a central part in a cost-of-living package in the budget. We are very clear the measure should be in the form of €450 that will support people right here, right now, because the Government has failed to bring the companies under control regarding the prices they are charging. They are absolutely gouging people at this point in time.

5:25 am

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do not want to be too argumentative the first week back but the Sinn Féin proposal to help people with their energy bills was to subsidise these massive energy companies. Its proposal was to give our taxpayers’ money to the energy companies. That was bonkers, in fairness, but I believe Sinn Féin reflected on it and changed its policy. Sinn Féin was not a big fan of the energy credits and I do not believe it committed to them even in its manifesto. It is now jumping on every bandwagon going.

We are going to take action. Energy costs are real, and I do not disagree with the Deputy that the cost of energy in Ireland is too high and a real cause of worry for people. I am telling him and, more important, the people of this country today what we are doing to help those in need. The fuel allowance season will be kicking off on Monday for more people than ever before. That will make a real difference to the Deputy’s constituents and mine, with more benefiting in his county and mine than ever before. I am also telling him about other practical measures we have taken in the here and now, including reducing the rate of VAT on people’s energy bills. That was a practical measure. It was a costly measure but the right thing to do.

I do agree, however, on this: there is a structural issue in relation to our energy market that we need to get on top of. That is why one of the first steps the Minister, Deputy O’Brien, took was to establish the task force on energy affordability. The first thing it was asked to do was look specifically at measures that can be taken for this winter and measures that can inform the Government in advance of the budget. I expect the Minister to receive the report very shortly.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Like the Tánaiste, I acknowledge the very sad news emerging from Donabate. We all think of the little boy concerned, Daniel Aruebose. Our councillor Corina Johnston expressed this morning on the radio the great sadness and distress of the community of Donabate at the sad find.

The genocide taking place in Gaza reached intolerable levels of cruelty and carnage over the summer. More than 65,000 people have been killed and a famine has been declared. The famine review committee says 100% of the population in Gaza is now experiencing a high level of acute food insecurity. Children are dying of starvation, being orphaned and shot in the head in the streets. There are literally no words to describe the destruction of human life and infrastructure we are witnessing daily. Words fail us all when we learn of the atrocities being committed by Israel.

The findings of the UN commission of inquiry this week should be a turning point for the world. Its conclusion, that genocide is being committed in Gaza, should change things, but the advisory opinion of the ICJ last year should have changed things too, as should the constant stream of deeply horrifying reports from UNRWA, UNICEF and individual medics and journalists working in Gaza. Instead, what we have seen are indifference and indeed encouragement by the likes of Germany and the US, which have egged on Netanyahu and his brutal regime. By arming Israel, those countries are being complicit in the committing of genocide. Israel must be isolated by the international community in every global forum – culturally, in sport, in academia, and through trade in goods and services. We all agree no country is too small to make an impact. Ireland is making an impact. We have acknowledged that the Irish Government has been to the fore among European countries but we can do better. We can do more and no delay can be justified.

On Monday, I joined organisations, including the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, Oxfam and Christian Aid, at the gates of Leinster House with Senator Frances Black. We are calling for the urgent implementation of the occupied territories Bill in full because new research reveals the extent to which EU trade in both goods and services with illegal Israeli settlements is directly contributing to serious breaches of international law in Palestine. Companies implicated include eDreams, TUI travel, BNP Paribas, HSBC and Barclays.

At home, an investigation by The Guardian in August revealed that Palestinian phone calls are being illegally recorded by the Israeli military. These audio files are being stored on Microsoft servers here in Ireland, in Irish data centres. One whistleblower from Microsoft told The Guardian: “Suddenly the entire public [in Palestine] was our enemy.” The scale of the illegal interception is extraordinary. We cannot stand by while Netanyahu’s brutal project is being facilitated by Irish-based infrastructure. We cannot put an FDI-shaped price on human rights.

I welcome the new approach by the European Commission this week and the proposed suspension of the Israel–EU agreement but we cannot leave our response in the hands of obstructive states like Hungary. I realise the Government has taken issue with them but we need to set an example here. Will the Tánaiste legislate to ban the trade with occupied territories in goods and services this autumn? Will he take on board the Bill Duncan Smith has proposed for Labour to protect workers who refuse to handle goods coming from the illegal Israeli settlements?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Bacik. I do not know her councillor, Corina Johnston, but I heard her on “Morning Ireland” this morning. I thought she spoke for so many people and for her community on the very tragic situation. I thank her for that.

I thank the Deputy and her party for their constructive engagement. Of course, we will give consideration to Deputy Smith’s Bill. From an Irish perspective, literally around now 15 young Palestinians have been safely evacuated from Gaza. Fourteen of them are students who will be coming to study in Ireland. One is coming here on a critical-skills Visa. They are safely in Jordan, where they will be medically screened. Obviously, they are coming from a famine zone and war zone, a place where genocide is happening. They are due to arrive in Ireland tomorrow. I thank everybody who has worked so hard on this. As the Deputy can imagine, it is very complex to get people evacuated from Gaza.

The Deputy is right that we in this House, or indeed Ireland, did not need anybody else to tell us a genocide was happening in Gaza. Ireland was one of the first countries in Europe, if not the first, to call it what it is. The UN independent inquiry has now found the same thing. We have also seen statements of fact around a man-made famine in Gaza. These views are no longer just Ireland’s, mine or Deputy Bacik’s; these are views that are factually based and evidence based and that the world cannot ignore. The European Commission decision yesterday is hugely significant. As the Deputy knows from her engagements at European level, and as I know from mine, Ireland’s voice has been in the minority for quite a long time. To have had the European Commission ratify proposals yesterday that are very far-reaching and quite appropriate – and very delayed, by the way – represents a not-insignificant moment; it is actually a very important moment. In practice, this would have a very significant impact on Israel economically and, I believe, has the potential to change Netanyahu’s calculus in relation to the continuance of the genocide in Gaza.

My priority in the here and now has to be, and the Deputy would expect it to be, to try to see if we can get a majority of member states to vote for these sanctions and to do so very quickly.

The next meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council, outside a UN meeting next week, is not due for approximately six weeks. It is the same with the European Council. A genocide is going on. We cannot wait a further six weeks, after all the inaction to date. I am leading a diplomatic effort to try to get a number of member states to seek an urgent meeting so that member states can vote. There is nowhere to hide here. You are either in favour or against these measures to try to help end a genocide. I hope that can happen.

At a domestic level, I spoke to Senator Black briefly the other day. I am due to meet her on my return from the UN High-level Week, which is taking place next week. We are still committed to legislating. Party leaders will shortly meet the Attorney General on how best to do that. I am happy to brief the Opposition as well. However, I have to be honest with the House and the people of Ireland about passing our own legislation. Again, I do not dismiss that and I committed to doing it, but if we want to make an impact here, acting at an EU level has always been the best way to do it because, while the political power may seem to be whatever goes on between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu, the economic ability that Europe has in relation to Israel and making it change its course is highly significant.

5:35 am

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I thank the Tánaiste for that comprehensive response. I would welcome a briefing on the occupied territories Bill - anything to move things on there. I absolutely agree with him on the need for transnational and international action, but we can and should also act unilaterally because we have a strong voice of moral authority. There are like-minded states. I know this from my engagement at EU level. Spain and Belgium are with us on this. We can and should do more on the occupied territories Bill.

It is similar on the evacuees from Palestine. I welcome that and the Tánaiste's announcement that 15 will arrive tomorrow. There were due to be 30. I have been working with him and the Minister for justice to try to ensure we see family reunification for those who have already come here from Gaza on the medevac programme. Some of them are living in my constituency and are desperately distressed as they watch their family members under daily bombardment from Israel in Gaza. We are doing all we can to try to get them out. I would welcome more effort from the Government on getting family members out to join the people already here.

I welcome the Tánaiste's push for an urgent meeting at EU level. Will he also push at UN level? The Government supported a Labour Party motion in May looking for Ireland to push this at UN level, through the General Assembly of the United Nations, to take action towards us securing a lasting ceasefire in Gaza. Will he push on that too?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes, we can and will take action at national level. There is a political consensus on that. We all gave commitments during the election. I am happy to do that, but the Deputy will also remember the previous Government's position was always whether we could get to a point where Europe might act. That looked very remote when this genocide started. It now looks like a distinct prospect. We have got to try to see this through. One way or the other, in a democratic Europe, we have every right to be able to vote for these proposals and to show we are voting to take this action against Israel to try to stop what Netanyahu is doing. That needs to happen and to happen quickly. The Deputy is right that we are not alone. There is a growing coalition, including Slovenia, Spain and Belgium, as she said, the Netherlands and Luxembourg. France has played a very constructive role. We may see our near neighbours in the UK take their own decision on recognition in the coming days, which would be a welcome step forward.

We remain committed to evacuations. The Minister for Health is doing very good work on this from a medical point of view. We are doing good work in terms of those looking to come here to study as well. We all know there is complexity around this, but anyone we can help in that context we are helping.

At a UN level, the Taoiseach, the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, and I will be in New York for UN High-level Week next week. This issue will be a major priority, as you would imagine.

Photo of Cian O'CallaghanCian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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On behalf of the Social Democrats, I express our absolute revulsion at the threats made against the Tánaiste and his family. They have absolutely no place and are strongly condemned by us all. I want him to know that we will work with him to do everything we can to ensure these kind of threats against our democracy are not in any way tolerated.

I extend our deepest condolences to all those who knew, loved and cared for Daniel Aruebose. Yesterday, after a long search, the remains of Daniel were found in Donabate. Daniel had been missing for four years before the State noticed he was gone. He was much more than the tragic circumstances of his death and disappearance. I thank TheJournal.ie for publishing a very moving interview with his foster sister telling us more about him. She said:

He was the sweetest little baby ever, we were all absolutely beside ourselves ... He was so cute ...

He was so clever. I obviously might be a little biased, but he already had a strong personality, he loved dancing, he loved laughing, and he loved showing off that he understood you. Like we’d go ‘where’s the light?’ and he’d know from only a few months old, he’d point up at the light. He was just a very clever baby.

His foster sister said the picture released does not reflect the happy child she knew who brightened every room he entered. She wants people to know that Daniel was special and loved.

I will not get into the investigation into this tragedy. We do not yet know what happened, but we do know that something went very seriously wrong. A bright and bubbly child died and disappeared and no one noticed. Sadly, this is not the only time this has happened. Kyran Durnin disappeared in 2022 and is presumed dead. Nobody noticed he was missing until late last year. It is horrifying that children can simply disappear in this country.

Tusla is conducting a rapid review of its interactions with Daniel's family and has referred the case to a national review panel, but that is not good enough. An independent statutory review should be triggered in every case of a child known to Tusla who disappears. This is the bare minimum these children deserve. This is not to apportion blame. It is to find out what went wrong, to make sure it never happens again and to prevent more children disappearing and dying.

Daniel was failed in life. Let us not fail him in death. Will the Government establish a statutory review into this tragedy? What is being done to support the community in Donabate who are grieving and in shock, as is the entire country?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his kindness and solidarity. I very much appreciated the very kind letter I received, on behalf of his parliamentary party, from Deputy Jen Cummins. I look forward to all of us working on a cross-party basis, as suggested by the Ceann Comhairle, on safety in public life. I thank the Deputy very much for that.

The Deputy is entirely correct in the way he summed up the most horrific and tragic situation in relation to Daniel. He is right that we do not yet know what went wrong but that something went seriously wrong, captures exactly the situation we find ourselves in. I pay tribute to the gardaí and all those involved in the search for little Daniel. None of us can really imagine or comprehend how traumatic an experience that must be for all of those on the front line. We think of them and their families, and the trauma they must be enduring today as well, of course, as the incredible trauma being endured by everybody who knew Daniel. On the Deputy's comments about the sad photo not doing Daniel justice, I heard a lot of commentary about that this morning on the radio. I saw a happy photo released to RTÉ with his arms outstretched playing with his toys, with a beautiful smile, that I presume captured the essence of a beautiful young boy. Our hearts break for them now.

The Deputy asked a fair question. My honest to God answer is I do not think we can rule anything out at this stage. The responsible thing for us to do is to try to establish the facts, but we cannot rule anything out. What is the situation as of now? There is obviously the Garda investigation, which the Deputy and I rightly did not comment on. Tusla is conducting the rapid review process of its own engagement with Daniel's family and the Minister for children has asked that the national review panel prioritises the review of this case. Once the Tusla rapid review is completed, which I understand will be within days, that will then be forwarded to the national review panel. It will examine any engagement Daniel and his parents had with health, social, education or any other State services. The national review panel has an independent chair, along with its own independent legal advisers. It makes findings of fact and produces reports that are objective and independent of Tusla, but I do not rule anything out at this stage. This is a deeply distressing situation that is somewhat evolving in terms of what we are learning in real time.

In addition and separately to that, there will be an independently chaired well-being review of all child welfare cases that were closed during the Covid-19 pandemic and where there has been no further contact with the child since. This number stands at 42,000, when all periods of school closure during Covid are taken into account, which takes in the early part of 2022 as well as 2020 and 2021. There are also a number of commitments to change our legislation in relation to the Child Care Act, which would provide further protections in respect of child protection and welfare services in the State and strengthen the child protection legal framework, increase the powers of Tusla and ensure greater co-operation.

In direct answer to the Deputy's question, we keep an open mind on exactly what he asked. We have got to see where the facts bring us in the coming days.

Photo of Cian O'CallaghanCian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Tánaiste for his response. I join with him in his comments on the gardaí and front-line workers and the excellent work they have been doing.

The Irish Association of Social Workers has called for a full statutory review. The Ombudsman for Children, Dr. Niall Muldoon has expressed extreme concern over the State's response. Dr. Muldoon asked: "How could a child have been born, dealt with all the relevant agencies and services, and then apparently, just disappear?" He went on to say: "The National Review Panel was never established on a statutory basis and this fundamental flaw has greatly impacted its ability to undertake its work effectively." He is not the only one to criticise the national review panel. Since 2018, both Tusla and the Department of Children, Disability and Equality have said that it is not fit for purpose. The national review panel has no statutory power, no powers to access information and no independent authority to publish reports so it has long gone past needing to have reviews on a statutory basis with proper powers when a child goes missing. We have known this since 2018. The Ombudsman for Children has said it, the Department has said it and Tusla has said it so will the Tánaiste commit to what we have all known since 2018 which is there needs to be statutory reviews when this happens and children known to Tusla go missing?

5:45 am

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The short answer is "Yes". There is a commitment in the programme for Government to do that and it needs to happen as quickly as possible. I heard the chair of the national review panel in recent days. She was very robust in her explanation of the work it does and her confidence that this work could be done in a manner that would be expeditious and thorough. It has independent legal advisers but the point about putting it on a statutory footing is entirely accepted by Government. It is a valid point. It would be extraordinarily foolish at this stage for the Government to rule out any action that may be required. This case shook our country to the core. What has happened is deeply distressing and it is even more distressing when we see the name and the face of the little boy Daniel. We are seeking to establish the facts. A Garda investigation is under way and Tusla will complete a rapid review in the coming days that will then be referred to the national review panel. The Minister for Children, Disability and Equality will then advise Government of any further steps or actions she believes are required.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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My question concerns the health implications of wind farms. My journey regarding the health implications of wind farms started in Coolcappa over two years ago. Recently we had meetings in Bruff, Dromin, Athlacca and Bruree about wind turbines and how local authorities have no input into wind turbines. They are now considered to be strategic infrastructure, which means they go straight to An Bord Pleanála.

There is an influx of applications for wind farms across the country. Wind energy guidelines were produced in 2006. In June 2013, Deputy Micheál Martin stood in front of Enda Kenny here and told him that the health implications of wind turbines are real. The guidelines were upgraded in 2019 but we are awaiting the guidelines around wind turbines. We are talking about health. Do the Members in this Chamber know that if a wind turbine goes into their area, and I have nothing against the landowners who are putting up wind turbines because they are entitled to do so and I ask people not to go after them, the contract states that they can place them wherever they like within their farms? This could be within 2 or 3 metres of someone's house where there is shadow flicker. They can also be placed near a school. The World Health Organization, WHO, said it should be 1 metre for every 10 but in Ireland, it is 1 metre for every 4. If an application for a wind turbine is successful and if someone wants to build a house within 3 km of a wind turbine, the wind turbine owners can object. What are their objections? They are that these wind turbines may cause shadow flicker. This is what they are telling people will happen within a 5 km radius and are using this to object to houses. A person building a house also has sign up to not objecting to anything on environmental grounds for ten years of the contract. On one hand, the developers are telling people that there will be shadow flicker if they build a house but on the other hand, they are telling them there is no shadow flicker if they build them close to their houses. When will the guidelines eventually be published? The Tánaiste has met the people so now I need to know.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue on behalf of his constituents. It is an issue he raises regularly. I think the Deputy and I agree on this but it is certainly my position and that of the Government that wind energy is a good thing. Renewable energy is a good thing. The health consequences of not having good clean renewable energy far outweigh other issues in terms of health implications. Let us think of all the health implications of the climate emergency and the burning of fuels that pollute our atmosphere, including the lung and respiratory conditions and the impact of them in all our communities over many years and the good work of predecessors such as Mary Harney on smokeless fuel.

The point the Deputy makes frequently and well is about the need for planning guidelines for communities, local authorities and planning authorities to help them understand the rules under which planning can be granted. I met some of the Deputy's constituents on this matter during the term of the previous Government. The review of the guidelines has been ongoing for a very long time. I fully accept that point. The review has ongoing for several years. I spoke with the Minister of State with responsibility for planning, Deputy Cummins, today and the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage previously and was informed that significant progress has been made towards concluding the review. The review is looking at all aspects such as setback distance, noise, shadow flicker, community obligation and community dividend, which is always important, and grid connection. The noise aspect of this review has been highly technical and took considerably longer than was perhaps originally expected but I understand that this is now substantially complete so there is a real effort by the Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, and his officials to get this right and I thank him for his work on this. In addition to the noise aspect of the guidelines that added to the length, the evolving policy and technical context, including our new Planning and Development Act, which we passed last year, and the first revision of the national planning framework, which was approved by the Oireachtas at the end of April 2025, reinforced the need to get the finalised guidelines right and make sure they are fit for purpose and fit for that context as well.

We are trying to strike a balance between the planning views of local communities and the impact on their areas and the need for renewable and sustainable forms of energy. There is a specific commitment in the programme for Government to prioritise the publication of these guidelines. I know the Minister of State is prioritising this work. A strategic environmental assessment has been carried out and a public consultation on the draft updated guidelines will take place. This will provide the Deputy, his constituents and his party with an opportunity to submit observations on that draft. I will keep the Deputy informed.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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In the interim, there is an influx of wind turbines. In Europe, Eamon Ryan signed up to 16,000 wind turbines going inland. D maps were delayed for five years so we could not look at offshore and they are talking about renewable energy. We are talking about health implications. Do Members know that when wind turbines are turned off, the wind energy company gets more money than through funds from Government than it receives when the turbines are turned on per the contracts they have? When the turbines are off, the company earns more money. They are now applying for wind turbines in low wind areas and increasing the height of the wind turbines to try to make the statistics work. I met Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael councillors in Bruree recently and they asked us to nail our colours to the mast. They said they agreed with me that this needs to happen because of the health implications. They also mentioned that Deputy Niall Collins had nailed his colours to the mast and said he agreed with them as well. I need to know whether Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael agree with the WHO regarding the health implications of wind turbines and whether they will take full responsibility when the WHO has said that they have health implications? Will they take personal responsibility? They are doing it knowingly and in legal terms, if they are doing something knowingly, they are personally responsible? Can Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael nail their colours to the mast regarding the health implications of wind turbines that are in proximity to houses, schools and other necessities and say that they are okay with it? Delaying the guidelines for 19 or 20 years is not helping when it comes to the health implications. We are talking about health.

5:55 am

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am quite sure my Fine Gael councillors agree with me on wanting to get this right and this being about a balance in terms of planning. I am sitting beside the Minister for Health and I make the point more broadly that the health impact of climate change and the climate emergency is very real. We all know in our communities, and I think we agree on this across the House, that the health implications of people breathing in dirty air have been very real in the form of cancers and respiratory disease, so the move to renewables is a really good thing. The commitment we have is to get to 80% of our electricity from renewable sources by 2030.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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63% are owned by China.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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But the ownership is not-----

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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We are not getting it.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Address your remarks-----

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do not want to be argumentative because it is an important issue to the Deputy's constituents but------

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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So it is not our energy.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----the ownership issue is a different issue. I am talking about how we are going to power the country and how we are going to have clean air-----

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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Offshore.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Offshore is a very important part and my constituency will see a significant amount of that, but this is about getting the planning guidelines right. There are lots of different views about health and climate as well-----

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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With all due respect it has been 20 years, Tánaiste.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I must look at those points the Deputy makes. What I am saying to him, and more importantly to his constituents, as well as people I meet across the country looking for guidelines on this, is the publication of new revised guidelines is a priority for the Government-----

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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When?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----and we will have an opportunity to have consultation on those guidelines-----

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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When?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----so communities can directly have their say in the coming months. The Minister of State, Deputy Cummins, is leading on that for us.