Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [46217/25]

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [46876/25]

Aisling Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [46879/25]

Catherine Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
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13. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [46847/25]

Tom Brabazon (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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14. To ask the Taoiseach the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [46851/25]

Erin McGreehan (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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15. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [48518/25]

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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16. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [48904/25]

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 16, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on children and education oversees the implementation of programme for Government commitments in the area of children and education. It receives detailed reports on identified policy areas, such as child poverty, well-being and education. The membership of the Cabinet committee on children and education comprises the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence and the Ministers for Finance, Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, Children, Disability and Equality, Health, Social Protection, Education and Youth and Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

The programme for Government contains many important commitments intended to improve the lives of all children, especially those children who need our help most. These commitments include: setting an ambitious child poverty target; progressively increasing the child support payment; expanding eligibility for the fuel allowance to families in receipt of the working family payment; and exploring a targeted child benefit payment.

Just last week, the Minister for Social Protection and I published the new child poverty target. The target is that, by 2030, no more than 3% of children should be living in consistent poverty. This would be the lowest figure in our history and would put us among the very best performers in Europe. That said, no figure is acceptable in terms of any child being in consistent poverty. Investment in education is central to this work to address child poverty and disadvantage. The Government’s vision for education is to deliver a world class education system that breaks down barriers and ensures every child can achieve their full potential. That is why we remain committed to building on the work of the DEIS programme, which, since 2006, has been operating to tackle educational disadvantage. We are looking at a DEIS plus programme to support schools in areas with the most deprivation and disadvantage.

The Cabinet committee meets quarterly and met for the second time recently. It will meet again in the period ahead.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I want to raise the current situation of Gaelscoil Coláiste Mhuire. As the Taoiseach knows, it is located on Parnell Square in Dublin. This school was at the centre of a shocking and very violent attack in November 2023. The ramifications of that day are still deeply felt within the school community emotionally and, in some cases, physically. In the aftermath of this horrific event, it was hoped there would be a renewed urgency in delivering a new, long overdue and much-needed permanent school building, something that has been promised for years and years. Despite false deadlines, hopes and promises, this has yet to happen. Construction on the school has been delayed again.

Gaelscoil Coláiste Mhuire is due to move temporarily to accommodation on Cathal Brugha Street. It is an interim solution to a long-term problem, bringing more questions than answers. When will all the necessary works be completed to allow the school to move to the proposed temporary building on Cathal Brugha Street? Can the Taoiseach confirm that the school will have exclusive and full use of the temporary premises? Most importantly of all, when will the building of the long-awaited and much-needed school building recommence? There cannot be further delays.

Ryan O'Meara (Tipperary North, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to raise a number of cases that have arisen in Nenagh recently regarding school transportation for special classes. A number of new classes opened this year at second level. Three families are in contact with me who, two or three years ago, enrolled their children in the closest available school at the time, which is now their most appropriate school place. However, they are being told by the school transportation section that they are not entitled to school transport because there is a vacancy in a closer school. There seems to be a way to work this out. We are getting letters from schools, confirmation from parents and so on, but we need to examine the policy. We are opening more and more special classes. There are a considerable number opening in north Tipperary this year and we expect more next year. In cases where children are already settled in their most appropriate school environment, families should not have to go through this rigmarole of getting on to TDs or schools to get letters to fit the criteria and a technical policy. We should be able to examine the policy and get that ironed out while these school places continue to be expanded.

Aisling Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The programme for Government committed to reducing childcare costs to €200 per month per child.

Families across the country are under financial pressure. It is imperative that this commitment is delivered on within the lifetime of this Government. I urge the Taoiseach to ensure it remains a key focus of the Cabinet committee on children and education. Affordable childcare-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Which commitment? Was it childcare?

Aisling Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Childcare, yes. Affordable childcare is not only essential for parents, but also for workforce participation, equality and the well-being of children. I appreciate it is complex and I appreciate the work already undertaken by the Minister, Deputy Norma Foley, to realise this commitment but could the Taoiseach outline any progress to date and when we can expect further progress?

Catherine Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I join my colleagues in expressing sympathy to the family of Patrick Gerard Murphy, who was a friend to a lot of us.

Today, I raise the issue of mild general learning disability schools. Department of Education and Youth officials have a widespread misunderstanding of exactly what they do and they are now being forced to redesignate. There are 29 mild schools in the country, 14 of which cater for children at a post-primary level. They are appropriate school settings for children with mild general learning disabilities and the prove of this is in the pudding with 95% of graduates from mild schools entering the workforce, compared to just 30% of those with a mild diagnosis in the general population who go on to enter the workforce.

One such school in my area is Scoil Eoin. It is a wonderful school with fantastic staff but it wants to keep its designation. It is really unfair and it is not inclusive to change the designation of mild schools to more complex schooling. Will the Taoiseach commit to ensuring these schools will not have their designation changed on them by the Department?

Tom Brabazon (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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Since my election to this House, I have been contacted by numerous principals, teachers and parents of primary school children who say they are finding the management of the capitation grant of €224 per pupil becoming increasingly difficult. The increasing energy costs, insurance costs and other operational costs have increased the financial burden on schools and stress on school principals, in particular. Can this be examined in the context of the upcoming budget? The ask of some of the principals is that there be an additional €75 per pupil in the grant. Could that be considered?

Erin McGreehan (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has done an awful lot of work on bringing the cost of education down with schemes like free meals and free books. However, another cost that has been placed on parents trying to get their kids back to secondary school is really expensive laptops for each child. Laptops cost from €500 to €700 and even more, and every child who starts secondary school - in the schools I am familiar with - have this cost now. That is a huge expense on families. Yes, we have taken away one burden but the education system has put another burden on top of that. If you have a couple of children in school, and children are children so laptops break, there will be quite an expensive run on laptops every few years.

Will there be research into screen time and using laptops for homework and exams. Everything that is done on laptops for children as young as 12 up to 17 years of age. Has the Department of Education and Youth conducted research? The old pen and paper is disregarded and pupils are now on screens constantly, along with that huge expense.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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Last week, the Taoiseach published an op-ed in the Irish Independent declaring that the time to end child poverty is now. That sentiment is very welcome but his analysis was incomplete. Yesterday, my party leader rightly pointed out that consistent child poverty has doubled in the past two years to 8.5% when the Government's target is 3%. Earlier this month, the ESRI published a report that one in every five children - more than 225,000 - are now in poverty when housing costs are taken into account.

The Taoiseach said earlier that he is committed to employment and economically sustainable finances but what good is employment if it is the most unequal market income in the developed world? How sustainable is a doubling of child poverty? At a webinar on child poverty held by the Children's Rights Alliance last week, the deputy Secretary General of the Department of Social Protection rightly said: "If a family does not have access to secure and affordable housing, it is almost impossible to provide the services required to lift them out of poverty." Will the Taoiseach and his sub-committee outline the targeted approach to child poverty, including housing? Will he acknowledge the devastating role his housing policies, that he has voted for over the previous decade, have played in escalating child poverty?

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I raise the issue of childcare with the Taoiseach as well. Mary Geary's Childcare is one of the largest providers in the country. It is actually based in Carrigtohill, which is in Deputy O'Connor's constituency, but many of the families who use it reside in my constituency. It has 450 children from 300 families. The parents of those children were recently faced with a fee hike of 34%. This is because the provider decided to remove itself from the public core funding model. It did this reluctantly because there is a situation where some of these large providers are capped at a certain level, which I think is in the region of €750,000, which they cannot go over. This is an example of a large provider but the pressure that is put on us locally in terms of families trying to source alternative childcare is enormous and has been felt deeply.

A survey carried out online recently by Indeed, the hiring company, where 1,000 parents were surveyed with 70% saying that childcare accessibility has affected their ability to work and one quarter of all respondents finding they either had to cut their hours or rearrange their work schedule to accommodate the childcare gap. This is now more than a family issue; this is an economic issue.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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The discussion about the State failing children will dominate the coming Dáil term but there is no greater failure than the State losing track of and failing children who it is meant to be taking care of. Just a couple of hours ago, we heard that the body of Daniel Aruebose has been found. We know he went missing four years ago, when he was just three years old. He would have been seven now. Incredibly, when reading the story, it appears the State became aware he was missing because of checks carried out on social welfare payments. What does it say about the nature of the State that better track is being kept of social welfare payments than vulnerable children?

Tragically, Daniel is far from the only child to fall through the cracks. Kyran Durnin has still not been found. In 2023, 29 young people known to Tusla died. Earlier this week, a school principal said there are huge gaps and holes in the system and that no one is looking for children who are not turning up to school, which is incredible. What will be done to ensure we stop failing children in this way?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I raise the case of Daniel Aruebose as well and the fact that his remains have been found in north Dublin. It is incredible that a three-year-old boy would go missing from State care. I want to express my deepest sympathies to the relatives of this small boy. Daniel has been failed by the State. It is horrific and damning that we have a situation where the State was searching for the remains of two boys who were either in State care or known to State care and were no longer being tracked by State care. Daniel is among 254 children who have died in the past ten years either in State care or known to State care. Until yesterday, he was among dozens of children who are missing currently from State care.

The children's ombudsman has blasted the lack of structures the State has provided to properly investigate the deaths of vulnerable children. He stated there were no statutory powers to investigate these deaths and no powers to compel information from public bodies and services. We also have had the news that Tusla will conduct well-being checks into 42,000 children whose cases were closed during the Taoiseach's Government's Covid restrictions. That is a very serious situation about that Government's handling of the Covid crisis.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should conclude.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The fact there is not a proper investigation with statutory powers to investigate those is absolutely wrong as well. What funding will the Taoiseach provide Tusla to make sure it can do the work to investigate those closed cases?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should conclude.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Will the Taoiseach provide statutory powers to investigate these shocking deaths?

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I also add my voice to the two cases that have been spoken: Kyran Durnin and Daniel Aruebose. The only good news is that at least Daniel's body was found. We are talking about an absolutely tragic set of circumstances and families who had engaged with Tusla.

I have no doubt we all know and are aware of the issues. We know that we need to make sure that, first of all, we have the correct frameworks and protocols for child protection, and that they are then adhered to. There is no doubt we need reviews in these two cases. First and foremost, anyone with information should go to the Garda, but we also need reviews to be carried out, and not behind closed doors. We must ensure that learnings are learnt and less of this can happen in the future, because it is disastrous.

I have spoken here many times previously of the failure to intervene early with families and those who need support. What was brought up at the children's committee was the idea of specialist public health nurses, which was contained within the early years policy framework but was not followed up. The idea is that there would be an initial positive engagement with families involving screening-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should conclude.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----so if there is a need for resources, they could be put in early before things become disastrous or tragic. In some cases, it is all about child protection. We need absolute supports and protection of the child.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We are failing at this point. We must look back and learn so we know where we must go in the future.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The time for questions to the Taoiseach will conclude at 4.33 p.m. The Taoiseach should bear that in mind when he responds.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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In response to Deputy McDonald, the issue with Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire was a contractual one. It was not a case of the Government pulling the plug or anything like that. The Deputy and I know that. I will ask the Minister to communicate directly with her. I presume she has been in touch with the Minister for education on the matter and also on the use of Cathal Brugha Street. It is an interim solution. The situation is very unsatisfactory. My understanding from the last time we discussed this is that it is a contractual disagreement.

Deputy O'Meara raised school transport. He is absolutely correct. No one should have to go through that rigmarole. Common sense and flexibility should apply. I will speak to the Minister in respect of the issues he raises.

Deputy Dempsey spoke about affordable childcare. Much progress has been made to date. There was a major issue with places this time round. We are always trying to balance the number of places, access to places, cost, and support for staff. We will have good proposals again coming forward and substantial moneys being made available to the joint labour committee for an increase, but developmental career pathways for people working in childcare is still an issue.

Deputy Ardagh raised the proposal by the Department of education to redesignate 29 schools, which I heard about in recent days. I will pursue that with the Minister. These are very important schools, which fulfil a very clear purpose. I am aware of them in my own constituency as well. A different approach should be adopted. I will have to talk to the Minister for education in respect of this, as well as the Minister of State with responsibility for special education. The school the Deputy referenced in her constituency is Scoil Eoin.

I agree with Deputy Brabazon that capitation is a significant issue. We did increase it significantly during and after Covid to levels that had not previously been seen but I acknowledge that, nonetheless, the cost of living impacts on schools as well, in particular energy costs.

Deputy McGreehan made a point about research into the advent of technology and tried and trusted methods of education. A lot of research has been done which shows that technology is not all it is made out to be in terms of the development of the child, the learning process and creativity, but it can be a significant additional aid to learning. We have to work with schools on how to best ensure a reduction in costs for parents in particular, given the cost of iPads. Mechanisms can be developed in that regard. There are limits to public expenditure. We have done great work in reducing costs in recent years, but there are limits to what we can do.

Deputy Hayes's party specialises in articulating that life in Ireland is miserable. That tends to be the-----

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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I never said that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is how the party goes about it.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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I did not say that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Everything is bad.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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The Taoiseach should not put words in my mouth.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not putting words in his mouth.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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I did not say it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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What he is saying is that everything has doubled – unemployment-----

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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I am quoting the ESRI.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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He said it is the most unequal employment market in the world-----

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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The Government funds the ESRI.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----at a time when we had 500,000 extra jobs in five years.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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The OECD brought us that information. The Department of Finance gives it to us.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but who has the highest school completion rates in Europe?

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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I told the Taoiseach about the-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Who has the better progression rates?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Hayes should please allow the Taoiseach to address the question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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This country has. All I am saying is that we should have a bit of balance. I know the Deputy might be a bit, you know - but he should take it handy. A bit of balance would be appropriate in terms of the different narratives.

Eoin Hayes (Dublin Bay South, Social Democrats)
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The Taoiseach is not answering the question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have a lot of things to do. I have always acknowledged that.

We had a national child poverty summit recently. Deputy Hayes might be aware of that.

I can inform Deputy O'Sullivan that approximately 90% of providers are in the scheme at the moment. Some did opt out. I have spoken to the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality, Deputy Foley, who has arrived beside me in the Chamber. There is a cap of €750,000 for the larger users. If fees are going up by 34% that will have a big impact on the community for the 450 children the Deputy referred to. It seems that some people are going out into the private market thinking they can get that, which is a problem. It is regrettable if people leave the scheme. They should do everything they possibly can to stay in it for the benefit of the parents, and work with the Department in that regard.

Deputies Murphy and Tóibín raised the discovery of Daniel today. I do not accept the automatic impulse to blame the State. There needs to be a better analysis of this in advance of jumping to blame.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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We should know whether it has been researched or investigated.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Tóibín used a phrase which I wrote down referring to a three-year old boy who went "missing from State care". This is his classic propagandising of a situation. It is regrettable that he would adopt such a cynical attitude, because that boy did not go missing while in State care. Does the Deputy accept that?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I accept that he was not tracked by State care.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, I am not asking Deputy Tóibín that. Does he accept he did not go missing while in State care?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I accept that his case was closed-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Could the Taoiseach address his remarks through the Chair?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise. I should have done it through the Chair.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We are over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The point I am trying to make is-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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There needs to be a structure to investigate these cases. The ombudsman says there is not.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but the chair of the national review panel gave a very robust articulation of its role, and the effectiveness of its role. There are ongoing issues in terms of legislation and so on that can be progressed, but that should not be conflated with what happened with Daniel. We need to await the outcome and get the facts first before we jump to conclusions.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The ombudsman said there is not a statutory organisation to get the facts. That is a damning statement.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have observed Deputy Tóibín's position on this for quite some time, and the overriding objective seems to be to blame Tusla for every child in the country who goes missing. That is wrong.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Is there any responsibility?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There can be wrongdoing or neglect in some cases but Deputy Tóibín raises it in every case. That is wrong.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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No.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is unfair to those working in Tusla and to social workers.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will conclude.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is what I believe.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Does the Taoiseach know that Tusla lost track of this boy?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The Taoiseach is not being correct.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Specialist public health nurses-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The time is up, so we are moving on.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise to Deputy Ó Murchú.