Dáil debates
Tuesday, 15 July 2025
Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions
2:00 pm
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Before I begin, I wish to congratulate our undisputed world champion, Katie Taylor, on an incredible victory in Madison Square Garden on Saturday morning.
Matt CarthyMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Katie, as we know, has fought all over the world. She has walked many times into the lion's den. I know lots of people are anticipating the mother and father of all homecomings and a fight, maybe, in Croke Park.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has comprehensively ruled out providing a cost-of-living package in October's budget. The media today is full of reports that he is set to double down on the removal of support payments for struggling households. At a time when living costs are through the roof and people have been hit by skyrocketing prices from every direction, the Government proposes to abandon households and provide them with no help. The promises made during the election are disappearing like snow off a ditch.
People cannot believe their ears when they hear the Taoiseach talk as if the sky-high living costs they experience every day are a thing of the past. Extortionate prices are not past tense. People are being fleeced today. They are being fleeced when they open their electricity or gas bills, get to the checkout with the weekly shop, go to fill the car or go to buy basic toiletries like toothpaste or shampoo. The out-of-control cost of living is making it so hard for working people to keep their heads above water as we speak. For the Taoiseach to tell households that he is not going to help them and to almost boast that he is determined not to help shows that he really does not understand the pressure people are under. People are not looking for lip service or sympathy from Government; they are looking for support and fair play.
They are not getting a whole lot of fairness right now. For one thing, households in Ireland are paying 30% more on their electricity bills each year than the EU average. That is nearly €350 more. The ESRI says that it is difficult to explain why electricity prices here are so far above those in other countries. People are taken for a ride, and now the Taoiseach proposes to cancel the very help they desperately need with their energy bills. He should be continuing to provide energy credits as part of a cost-of-living package in the budget. That is the truth.
2:05 pm
Pearse DohertyMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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We have had six months of this do-nothing Government. Now, the Dáil is about to rise. As it rises, the Government will leave people with stress and uncertainty. People will face big rent hikes next year, thanks to the Government. Students and their families face a big hike in college fees, thanks to the Government. Also thanks to the Government, tens of thousands of families will be left without cost-of-living supports and will wonder how on earth they will make it through the winter. Ní féidir leis an Rialtas teaghlaigh atá ag streachailt le harduithe praghais as smacht a thréigeadh. Caithfidh sé pacáiste costas maireachtála a thabhairt chun tosaigh sa bhuiséad. Households are under enormous pressure and are unable to keep up with soaring prices. The Government simply cannot abandon workers and families like this. I put it to the Taoiseach that the Government must include a cost-of-living package in October's budget.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ar dtús báire, ní aontaím leis an Teachta in aon chor, mar níl aon amhras ach go bhfuil an-chuid déanta ag an Rialtas chun an brú atá curtha ar chosmhuintir na tíre de dheasca an t-ardú ar an gcostas maireachtála a ísliú. Tá an-chuid déanta againn chun é sin a dhéanamh.
In passing, I also congratulate Katie Taylor on her outstanding win. She is one of our outstanding sportspersons and has done extraordinary work in terms of elevating the role of women in sport. She has brought great pride and distinction to the nation and to the sport of boxing.
I do not agree with the Deputy's analysis in terms of the Government not helping, doing nothing or telling people that it does not recognise the fact that prices are at a relatively elevated level following the peaking of inflation. It must be remembered that inflation peaked at about 10% in the immediate aftermath of Covid-19. Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it also peaked at close to 10%. What is interesting of course is that the Government did an awful lot. We did more than any other European government in terms of cushioning and trying to reduce the impact of cost-of-living increases on people. We continue to do that. In April, we decided to extend the VAT reduction of 9% on gas and electricity. This measure will save households €70 for gas and €55 for electricity. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, took a further decision in June regarding a 40% reduction in the renewable electricity public service obligation levy. From September onwards, there will be a significant increase in the number of people who qualify for the fuel allowance.
Since 1 June, women can receive hormone replacement therapy free of charge. At the beginning of June, the carer's support grant increased to €2,000, which is the highest level ever. That benefits some 138,000 carers. Last week, the income level disregard increased for the carer's allowance, meaning more people will qualify for the allowance and more than 5,000 carers will receive an increase in their payments. The back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance will be paid out over the summer months. That has been extended for the first time to foster carers. From September, the free schoolbooks scheme continues to be extended to all students in post-primary schools and from September all primary schools are eligible for the free hot school meals programme. A school meals holiday pilot project has started this summer. Free public transport for children aged five to eight will be introduced later this year.
Far from the Deputy's assertions that the Government is doing nothing, we have taken all of these measures on top of the measures we took in budget 2025 and as part of the public service pay agreement. It is also worth noting that inflation in Ireland will come down to about 1.6% this year. The Deputy referenced our position within the European Union. We will have the third-lowest rate of inflation among the 27 EU member countries. Given the strength of the domestic economy that is quite a remarkable outcome vis-à-vis other European countries. Nominal wage growth is set to reach 5.5% this year. That will result in real incomes rising by between 3% and 3.5% per annum. That is important, because we are turning the tide in terms of this issue. That follows increases in real incomes in 2024.
Further increases are forecast for 2026. The focus in the budget must be on dramatically transforming our infrastructure, which we committed to during the general election campaign. This must be an era when we transform our roads, public transport and our energy and water utilities. That is to help the Irish people in terms of growth and jobs into the future. There will have to be a predominant allocation of capital in respect of these key agenda items.
2:10 pm
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The deficit in our infrastructure is on the Government.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It has presided over that. The Taoiseach is right that investment needs to be made. The mistakes that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have made during the past number of Administrations have to be corrected. The Taoiseach is right about that. However, he is entirely missing where the lives of families and people are at.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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He is right to say that the rate of inflation has fallen, and thank God for that. However, he is entirely missing the fact that prices have not followed suit. Anybody who goes into a supermarket or shop or opens a bill can tell the Taoiseach that we are in place where households are still struggling.
On the Government's record, in the past five months the price of home heating oil has risen by €25 per fill. Petrol and diesel prices went up in May and the Government will go for those again in October. Local property tax has risen. Rents have gone up. Students' fees, as we know, are also due to go up. The Government has shown no regard or sensitivity for the realities of struggling households and workers. I am simply asking the Taoiseach to wake up and become aware of the realities of people's lives. They need these supports. They will need a cost-of-living package come October, mark my words.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There will be supports in the budget to support people in dealing with the cost of living. Food inflation in Ireland in May was 4%. We are mid-table across the European Union. This is a Europe-wide phenomenon. It is a global phenomenon in terms of what is happening with the energy crisis.
I love the way the Deputy tosses out an aside to the effect that infrastructure is on the Government-----
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is on the Government.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and that she does not have to account for it at all.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have spent record levels of investment in the past four years. We are going to go further again. The most important thing for the future of this economy is to ensure that we substantially increase and more than double the investment in the energy grid in order that we will have connections. That will allow us to deal with the growing population and economy. We have to ensure that there is huge investment in water, public transport and roads. That is what underpins the economy.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Who is disputing that?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That will be a more effective allocation of spending-----
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There has been underfunding.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and prioritisation of the surpluses we will have at the end of this year and, hopefully, into the future.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Meanwhile, Johnny and Mary cannot pay their bills.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I say that notwithstanding the difficult backdrop of the US potentially imposing high tariffs on the world.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach blames that for everything.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That would put a lot of predictions out.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Last week, I joined an incredibly moving event on Kildare Street. It was organised by Grannies for Palestine. Its members unveiled a patchwork crochet banner that stretched the length of Kildare Street across the front of Leinster House. Devastatingly, each square in the banner was crafted to represent ten Gazan children who have been killed since Hamas's barbaric attack in October 2023. That means approximately 30 children have been killed every day in the nearly 650 days since Israel launched its genocidal war on Gaza. Even since last week, we have seen horrific scenes. Six children were killed by an Israeli air strike while collecting water in Gaza this week. Even the Israel Defense Forces stated that this was an error.
The protest group who were on Kildare Street last week had a clear ask of the Government. It asked it to pass the occupied territories Bill in full. That is what I want to raise with the Taoiseach today in the final sitting week before the recess. Gazan civil defence reports that more than 58,000 people in total have now been killed by Israel in Gaza. Those men, women, journalists, medics, aid workers and children are dead at the hands of Netanyahu's brutal regime, which is now facing criticism even from its own former leaders in Israel. The latter have described plans to resettle Gaza as akin to "a concentration camp". The gravity of a former Israeli Prime Minister using that language will be wasted on no one in this House. Who will say "Stop" and take action to force a stop to the genocide?
We all want to hear from the Taoiseach a commitment that he will without delay facilitate the passage of the occupied territories Bill to ban trade in goods and services.
We are prepared to sit over the summer, if needs be, to get that done.
I have welcomed, as my Labour colleagues have, the positive steps the Taoiseach's Government has taken, and we acknowledge those, including support for the UN resolution for a ceasefire in Gaza and, crucially, recognition by Ireland of the State of Palestine. We welcome that, just as we welcomed last month's action by the Tánaiste, who was one of eight foreign ministers to write to the European Commission calling for a ban on all trade with Israeli settlements - in goods and services. It seems the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste recognise their obligation to ban such trade in services under EU and international law following the ICJ advisory opinion. In a recent meeting of the foreign affairs committee, the Department of foreign affairs also accepted that limiting a ban to trade on goods would leave the Government just partially compliant with international law. Under EU law, we know there is scope for member states to act unilaterally. Israel's war crimes create a clear and pressing obligation to end all trade in goods and services, just as Senator Frances Black's original Bill sought to do.
Before the summer recess, will the Taoiseach give a commitment that the occupied territories Bill will cover goods and services? Will he ensure that Ireland continues to be at the fore in pushing for a stronger stance from the EU to stop the genocide in Gaza?
2:20 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for her presentation and I pay tribute to Grannies for Palestine in highlighting the genocide against children in Gaza, the slaughter of children indiscriminately by indiscriminate bombing and now the indiscriminate shooting at food checkpoints, which we have witnessed via those who have captured those images on social media. We often complain about the use of social media in other spheres, but it is worth bearing in mind that without social media in Gaza the world would be literally blind to the appalling atrocities that have occurred there. Many journalists have paid with their lives trying to bring out the horrible truth of what is happening, the latest iteration being an idea around what a former Israeli Prime Minister has described as a concentration camp.
The Deputy has, to be fair to her, identified all the measures we have taken, and the occupied territories Bill will be a further measure we will take. It needs to be legislated for and debated fully in order that we are clear-eyed about it. It is largely symbolic, if we are honest, and, unfortunately, it seems, given everything that has happened to date, that Israel is oblivious to the views of people across Europe and oblivious to public opinion and international opinion and has sought consistently to denigrate and undermine multilateral organisations, including the United Nations, which is a very serious matter. I believe we should collectively call for the primacy of the United Nations in conflict zones, particularly in Gaza and indeed in the West Bank. There has been a consistent pattern of undermining UNRWA, OCHA and other UN agencies, without which life would be absolutely unbearable, and is unbearable now because, of course, they have been denied the opportunity to bring aid into Gaza.
As regards the European Union, we had a fairly honest discussion at the European Council, at which the issue arose as to who has influence over Israel. The United States has very significant leverage and influence over Israel. I would have thought other European countries have; I am not so sure now. The EU has made entreaties to Israel, and we are told further aid will come in. I will believe it when I see it. It cannot be a negotiation on the basis of "give us a bit and give us a bit". There has to be a comprehensive framework for the facilitation of humanitarian aid going into Gaza. That is not there yet. We have to engage with Europe and the US in order to keep that pressure on the need for a ceasefire and the release of all hostages but above all now-----
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government needs to sanction Israel.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----on a massive surge in humanitarian aid into Gaza.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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We will keep pressing on the occupied territories Bill, but there is more here in Ireland that the Taoiseach's Government could be doing to show solidarity with the people of Palestine and, in particular, the children of Palestine.
First, I have been working for some months now seeking urgent action from the Government to bring desperately sick children out of Gaza on a medical evacuation with their families. We need to do more on that, and again I appeal to the Taoiseach and the justice and health Ministers on that.
Further, in recent days, like so many others across the country, I have been really concerned to see the refusal of visas to the group of children and their mentors due to travel here from the West Bank with the GAA Palestine group.
Is there anything that can be done at this stage to facilitate this group coming here? We have all listened to the families here who are really distressed that this trip is apparently not going to proceed because of actions or decisions by our own Department of foreign affairs. Can we at this point ensure that this visit goes ahead?
2:30 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Can I say very resolutely there has been no delay in the evacuation of children who require hospital treatment or medical treatment?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is not true.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely no delay, and I think it is important that we get truth on that. I am happy for the Deputy to meet the Minister for Health and the Minister for justice who will apprise her of the details of this.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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In fact, relative to other European countries, Ireland is well up. We are placed fifth overall in terms of the number of patients who have been evacuated to European countries, after Italy, Romania, Spain and Norway. We will do everything we possibly can. There is a further 18 to come, bringing us to 30. The issues are logistical. We are working with the WHO through the Egypt crossing.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is a disgrace. It is very hard to listen to.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, Deputy. This is Deputy Bacik’s moment. We will work but it has to be with the WHO. It simply has to be in terms of protocols, looking after the children and making sure everything is done properly. Today, we have formalised what is already happening; more family members can come in with the children because there can be issues.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you. Deputy O’Callaghan.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There will be total family unification, and there has been in respect of that, and there will be for the next 18, but there is no delay on our side in terms of those 18. There are others-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the GAA, I am perplexed by this. No appeal has gone in. There was no pre-engagement with anyone here on the Government side. I am not clear if there even was with the Gaelic Athletic Association formally. There is a bit of a-----
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Time is up. Maybe there is a further question from Deputy O'Callaghan.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will say no more other than I am not comfortable with how this has been handled overall.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Not on our side but on the side of those organising it. We have to be fully conscious of our obligations to child welfare and child well-being in how we handle all of this.
Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Check behind the radiator, so.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not child welfare to leave dying kids in Gaza to bleed out.
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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It is no exaggeration to say that primary care services for children around the country are at breaking point. Figures obtained by my colleague, Liam Quaide, revealed the depths of the crisis. The longest wait time for speech and language therapy in primary care services in Dublin is six years. In the north Lee area of Cork, one child has been waiting seven years for physiotherapy. For occupational therapy in primary care, there are huge waiting lists. A child in Meath has been left waiting for nine years and a child in north Dublin ten years. When it comes to psychology services, a child in Galway has been left waiting nine years, while one young person in Dublin has been on a waiting list for more than 13 years.
Leaving children on waiting lists for six, seven, nine, ten and 13 years is utterly unacceptable. How can the Taoiseach possibly defend someone waiting for psychological services since 2012? How can he let this happen? He has been in office since 2020. He has had more than enough time to sort this out. The impact on children, young people and their families has been catastrophic. Early intervention, as he knows, is crucial and makes all the difference so that children can reach their full potential. These waiting lists mean that thousands of children all over the country are suffering unnecessarily. They are having problems communicating, having difficulties at school and co-ordination challenges. These are all things that could be made more manageable with timely intervention.
These services have been run into the ground by the Taoiseach’s Governments. During the last Government, he stood over a recruitment embargo in the health service. At the time, the Irish Association of Speech and Language Therapists said it was aware of vacancy rates of up to 45%. That embargo was replaced with another barrier to recruitment - the pay and numbers strategy - in July 2024. This capped employment at December 2023 levels. It meant previously funded positions that could not be filled during the recruitment embargo were simply abolished. Critical services in primary care were just expected to cope with soaring referrals and reduced staffing but, of course, they could not and children all over the country paid the price for this.
The only thing children are guaranteed is a place on a waiting list. This cannot go on. Not only has the Government not addressed this crisis, but it has made it worse. How can the Taoiseach stand over someone having to wait 13 years on a waiting list? Does he accept responsibility for these waiting lists and will he commit to an urgent recruitment drive for primary care services?
2:40 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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First of all, Deputy, we have had the biggest expansion of access to free GP care in the history of the State, which the Deputy did not reference in his presentation on primary care services. It is the biggest expansion of access to free GP care in the history the State. Some 2.3 million people are now eligible in this country for free GP care. I would ask the Deputy to forward me the details of the individual cases he instanced.
The Deputy mentioned a recruitment embargo. There has been no recruitment embargo. We do need to get a bit real here. We have had close to 30,000 extra people in our health service in the last five years and the Deputy talks about an embargo. Six thousand more will be employed in 2025 and thousands more will be employed next year. These will be additional.
Maybe a more pertinent question to ask is whether we are getting the outputs for the significant investment that has gone into health over the last five years.
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Clearly not.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is a separate question,-----
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Whose responsibility is this?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----but the Deputy never asks it because he does not want to fall out with anybody, which is understandable coming from the Opposition. There are issues in terms of how we deal with therapists. We have set up a new in-school therapy service for children in special schools that will start in September. We have already allocated money for that additional to the Estimate that was provided. That will be significant. Recruitment is increasing significantly for the CDNT teams in terms of recruitment of therapists and filling more posts but we want to increase upon that in 2025 and 2026. We are dramatically ramping up places, and have been for quite some time, in our colleges to produce more therapists to come out on an annual basis. We do need to look at how we deploy therapists. That is why we have said here in the House that we want to bring in legislation to prioritise access to therapies and amend the existing situation pertaining to assessment of need because that is not serving children well. We have acknowledged that.
There are issues with delays in terms of accessing vital services but we are prepared to do something about it. I would appreciate the Deputy's support in respect of that legislation when it comes before the House because it will prioritise access to services and access to therapies as opposed to waiting to get the assessment of need first and then accessing therapies. The existing legislative template has not worked in practice and, in my view, legal decisions subsequently have obliged us to act to deal with that difficult issue. The nettle has to be grasped on that to bring about an improvement in terms of how we best use our therapists in this country, because we have increased the number of therapists in employment by a lot more compared to five, six, seven or eight years ago.
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I asked the Taoiseach about primary care teams and the Government's failure to staff them properly, which has led to a situation where waiting lists for primary care for children can be up to 13 years in the worst case scenario. That is what I asked him about. He did not address the shortages in primary care teams in his answer. He addressed other issues but he did not address primary care teams. Does he take responsibility for this or is he just pointing the finger at others? He has been Taoiseach and Tánaiste for six years, so does he take responsibility for this? Is he going to fix it? Is the Government going to start recruiting to fill these empty posts in primary care teams? Is it going to tackle this? Alternatively, does the Taoiseach think that it is somehow acceptable for children to have such extreme waiting times for primary care teams? Does he stand over it or will he fix it?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will continue the work to recruit. We have been recruiting. There has been an increase of €6.71 billion in expenditure in health. This is a 35% increase in health spending since 2020, so do not say we are cutting back or are not allocating. The Deputy cannot say that with credibility.
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Does the Taoiseach acknowledge it is happening-----
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Sorry, Deputy. Allow the response.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have allocated, which is a fundamental point.
By the way, we have made huge impacts across a lot of areas in health in the last five years, to such an extent - though this would be over a longer period - that our mortality rate fell by 11% over the decade from 2014 to 2024. We now have the second lowest mortality rate among the European 27, so the investment is having impacts of a positive nature.
2:50 pm
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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What about the child who has been left waiting for 13 years?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Are there significant issues? Yes, especially with access to some primary care services, mental health services and, above all, therapies, but we are allocating. There have been issues in the HSE with recruitment and retention in some areas and those are being worked on.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Ireland is on the precipice of the biggest economic crisis facing this country since the banking crisis. The tariff war has the potential to destroy tens of thousands of Irish jobs, significantly cut back GDP and hammer the budgetary income of this State. You would not know it here but the tariff war is the biggest economic threat to the State. Ireland is one of the most exposed countries in the EU to the US tariff war. Ireland exports far more relatively than other European countries to the United States. Last year, we exported €72.6 billion of goods to the US.
What is happening in Europe is quite frightening. We have heard French President Macron call on the EU to take a tougher stance against the threatened US tariffs and the EU is hardening its position on tariffs. The approach of countries that are less exposed than Ireland seems to be having more of an influence on the Commission in relation to its new retaliation policy. The EU has settled on that retaliation policy. It has identified €72 billion of US goods. It is unclear at this stage if the Government has had any influence on that process. The Government lobbied the EU to avoid a tax on bourbon, to avoid a tariff on US aircraft and plane parts and to avoid retaliatory tariffs on medical devices and the agrifood sector, yet all those sectors are now targets for EU retaliatory tariffs. Bourbon, Boeing and butter are a focus of the EU in relation to this. This is a really big difficulty. The aircraft leasing sector in this State has a value of €300 billion, with 10,000 aircraft located here. Medical devices are worth €16 billion in exports. The whiskey sector is stopping production throughout the State. There has been a beeline of Ministers, and rightly so, to the EU to see if we can put pressure on it to take our interests into consideration in this, but the EU has not done so. Other than purebred horse racing there is precious little in this particular plan by the EU for Ireland.
This Government has been great at outsourcing decisions to the EU but we also need to focus pressure on the United States. There is no French-American vote, German-American vote or EU-American vote but there is an Irish-American vote. When the Taoiseach was in the Oval Office Trump basically admitted that was the case. We need to use that leverage, our influence with the United States, to build a bridge between the US and the EU in relation to our national interests.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Apart from the last sentence, I found that a fairly bizarre presentation. Deputy Tóibín is blaming the European Union. Europe did not impose any tariffs.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The Taoiseach has missed the point altogether.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, please let the Taoiseach respond.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not missing it at all. His entire three minutes was about how the European Union is doing this, the European Union is doing that, the French have-----
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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It is looking after its own interests.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----have more influence than the Irish. It is absolute nonsense, if you do not mind me saying so. It is the US that has imposed the tariffs, not Europe. We do not want tariffs. Europe does want tariffs. They are bad for the economy, people, patients, industry and businesses.
Jim O'Callaghan
Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are just bad news and they will damage the world economy if this continues. There is terrible uncertainty and volatility, and the result of all that is a pause on investment decisions, which is also a critical outcome so far of what has transpired over the last six months.
To be fair, I disagree further with the Deputy. The Irish position, until now, has been to avoid any escalatory response by Europe.
I have spoken to the President of the Commission. She is of the same view, as is the negotiator, Maroš Šefčovič, to whom the Tánaiste has spoken, as have I. The whole strategy of the European Commission and the vast majority of the European Council has been to avoid an overreactive response, notwithstanding there are fairly severe tariffs on the motor industry, as a result of which a lot of EU countries are bleeding right now. It is easy for the Deputy to pontificate that we should do this, that and the other. If he was a worker in the car industry in Germany or Czechia, he would be feeling it. The UK was feeling it, which is why it made what is called a framework agreement with the US.
The latest iteration of this process is the announcement of a potential 30% tariff - not 10% but 30% - by 1 August. If that materialises, the EU, at that stage, will have no option but to respond. There is no point in getting worried about an individual component here or sector there. If there are tariffs of 30%, that will be ruinous or very destructive of our economy and of America's economy as well. We hope that does not come to pass. Europe wants to prioritise negotiation.
There is no evidence, by the way, in terms of what the Deputy said that France and others have got their way. They have not actually in the sense that some would have liked a more robust response already but Europe has played it calm and firm, been involved in negotiations and had good reason to believe there was a deal, an outline framework agreement in principle, on the table up to a couple of days before the weekend. That all changed. There is a new reality to 1 August. Europe hopes we can get into a negotiation process to resolve the matter.
3:00 pm
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Every day, the Taoiseach comes into this Chamber and answers a different question from the one he was actually asked. He is the king of deflection when it comes to these issues.
The reality is this issue is far too important. There are tens of thousands of Irish jobs at stake and the Government is at the back of the class when it comes to influencing the European Commission in terms of how it structures its retaliation to tariffs. Out of all the issues we discussed, we saw Simon Harris go to the European Commission last week and ask for a number of different things. All of them have been refused and, as a result, we are enormously exposed.
We are already exposed in regard how the Government has structured this economy. Ten international companies pay 50% of the corporation tax in this country. These international companies pay a third of all the taxes collected. Stephen Kinsella, who is an adviser to the Government, has said Ireland is the most exposed of any developed country in terms of the business model we are using.
What influence did the Taoiseach use to defend the whiskey sector? What influence did he use to defend the medtech sector?
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Deputy's time is up.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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What influence did he use to defend the agricultural sector and the aircraft sector? He has failed in regard to those sectors.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy described me as the king of deflection. As a true republican, I never did royalty and do not propose to do so now.
In this matter, we have not failed in any respect. Europe has avoided retaliation, notwithstanding a fair degree of provocation by way of the imposition of tariffs. There has been an effective 10% tariff for the past number of months. Europe has avoided overreacting to this and has gone down the route of a negotiated settlement and solution with the United States Government.
The US has issues, which we acknowledge. They can be resolved via renegotiation. That is what we want to do. I do not believe in tariffs.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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What are you doing? That is my question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We acknowledge fully the exposure of this country to damage from any tariff imposition because we are a small, open economy. I am glad the Deputy has embraced that. There were times when he did not.
We have no issue with being a bridge with the US.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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What have you done to achieve that? Nothing.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Taking the pharmaceutical sector, for example, Ireland is not isolated in that.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach. That concludes Leaders' Questions.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Up to ten EU countries have joined together in respect of the pharmaceutical sector.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The Taoiseach took ten minutes to say nothing.