Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for being here to take this matter. I raise an issue in respect of certain organisations across the country and particularly their staff and workers, who have not benefited from the pay agreements of recent years. They are former section 39 organisations. I acknowledge that many of the section 39 organisations have benefited but there is a cohort out there which, because of a complicated and complex funding model, have not been brought in under the pay agreements. The Minister of State will agree it is deeply unfair on the staff of those organisations that they have not benefited from the well-deserved pay increases that were awarded in 2023 and 2025. A number of organisations, perhaps fewer than ten, have still not been brought in under the pay agreement.

I want to talk in particular about St. Luke's Home in my area of Mahon, Cork. There are other such organisations, including Cobh Community Hospital and Valentia hospital in Kerry, which Deputy Cahill has also been raising. St. Luke's Home is a voluntary not-for-profit organisation providing essential care to residents in Cork. It provides long-term care with a palliative approach and specialises in dementia. It has over 128 beds. It also provides short-term respite care and day services, as well as other services. It is a critical organisation and, as the Minister of State will appreciate, it has a waiting list because of the great service it provides. Unfortunately, its more than 200 staff members have not benefited from the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, agreements in respect of pay and conditions. That is a significant issue for the home. The board of directors has described it as an existential crisis. The home is potentially going to lose staff. The Minister of State will agree it is deeply unfair and inequitable for those staff members when they see colleagues in other organisations who have benefited from pay agreements when they have not.

I welcome the opportunity to raise this Topical Issue. I say to the Minister of State that we can try to resolve the issue. I imagine it will be resolved at some point but it needs to be resolved as urgently as possible.

I will refer to a clause in the agreement that should cater for organisations such as this. I will read it, if I may. Clause 4.1 states:

In recognising that some of the organisations in scope of this present agreement also receive additional public funding by way of other grant arrangements, organisations should use this agreement as a framework to obtain equivalent increases in funding from the relevant Departments and/or statutory agencies as appropriate. It is understood that, save in exceptional and unforeseen circumstances, the required funding will be made available upon application by the organisation.

In the case of St. Luke's Home in Cork, that has not happened. It is funded by the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, and the HSE. I think it is because of the complicated structure that it has not been brought under the WRC agreement. The NTPF states it is a matter for the HSE. The HSE states it is a matter for the NTPF. These staff are getting the run around on this issue. I was delighted to have the opportunity to meet them recently to discuss the issue. I obviously undertook to raise the matter with the Minister. I tabled this question to the Minister for public expenditure because it is ultimately a matter for that Department, given that the WRC agreement came under it.

The Minister of State will agree in respect of the staff of St. Luke's Home in Cork, who provide a critical service and are extremely dedicated and committed to their work, that it is only fair that they would benefit from the WRC agreement as it relates to pay increases. I ask the Minister of State to take up the matter with the relevant Departments to try to resolve the issue and bring those staff members under the WRC agreement as quickly as possible so the continuity of St. Luke's Home can be secured. This organisation celebrated 150 years in existence in 2022. It provides critical services in Cork. I want to support it in every way I can.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter. I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister for public expenditure and reform, Jack Chambers TD.

The community and voluntary sector plays a vital role in delivering public services across Ireland. Various organisations in the community and voluntary sector are contracted to provide services on behalf of the State and are provided with funding for this purpose. These organisations are not public service bodies, nor are they employees of these organisation public servants. Accordingly, their terms and conditions, including remuneration, are a matter for the individual employers and employees as part of the employment relationship.

The number of staff employed in the community and voluntary sector as a whole is difficult to determine but it is estimated to be up to 100,000. The level of State funding received by these organisations, and the extent to which it is supplemented by other sources, such as philanthropy or fundraising, varies significantly from one organisation to another.

For many organisations in the sector, the majority of their funding ultimately comes from the State. They do great work.

Generally, this funding is used to service payroll and other organisational costs. These organisations include section 39 bodies, which receive grant funding from the HSE through the Departments of Health, and Children, Disability and Equality to provide health and disability services under section 39 of the Health Act 2004. Section 56 bodies receive funding from Tusla, through the Department of Children, Disability and Equality, for child and family services under section 56 of the Child and Family Agency Act 2013. Section 10 bodies receive funding from local authorities for homeless accommodation and related services under section 10 of the Housing Act 1988.

In October 2023, unions representing workers employed by organisations grant funded in line with section 39 of the Health Act 2004, section 56 of the Children and Family Agency Act 2013 and section 10 of the Housing Act 1988 secured agreement at the WRC for an increase in funding for these organisations, which would allow them to provide for an 8% increase in pay to their employees. The last increase under this agreement was 3% paid on 1 March 2024. The agreement reached provided for further engagement that would have regard to building momentum and other public service pay agreements.

This year, agreement was reached on 10 March at the WRC following talks led by the Department of Children, Disability and Equality on the management side with unions representing sections 39, 56 and 10 workers. This agreement set out that funding would be made available to provide for an increase of 9.25% on a phased basis between 1 October 2024 and 1 October 2026. This agreement was accepted in a ballot of union members. The agreement addresses the funding required to move the pay of such workers in line with current and future public service pay agreements, while respecting the fact that such workers are not public service employees.

The agreement provides for an increase in funding of 9.25% on a phased basis and runs to 31 October 2026. This is in line with the general round increases provided for in the Public Service Agreement 2024-2026. The agreement provides that funding will be adjusted to allow for the application of equivalent general round pay adjustments as provided for in any successor agreement to the Public Service Agreement 2024-2026. In addition, the adjustment will be in line with the phasing of any future public service pay agreements.

The agreement reached was accepted by union members in these organisations. It also provides for a data gathering exercise to allow for the application of the low pay provisions in future public service pay agreements for the funding of these organisations.

Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. I appreciate his response. Unfortunately, it has not addressed the core issue I raised regarding the handful of organisations that have not been brought into the tent in respect of the pay agreements. To elaborate further, prior to 2010, a section 39 block grant funded St. Luke's Home in Cork. Since then, it has had a number of different sources of funding, including the National Treatment Purchase Fund. The HSE provides funding in respect of respite and day services. It is a complicated model in terms of funding sources. That explains why staff have not been addressed as of yet in terms of the pay agreements.

Staff are being pushed from pillar to post. Given the spirit of the agreement and the fact that other voluntary organisations have been brought in, it is critically important that we find a solution to this matter as soon as possible. As I said, this is putting St. Luke's Home, a tremendous organisation in Cork, under severe financial pressure. In terms of management and the running of the organisation, the morale of staff and so on, it is an important and significant issue. The board does not use the phrase "existential crisis" too easily, but it has done in this particular case. It is a matter that has not been resolved to date and has been going on for some time.

I acknowledge the response the Minister of State has provided, but it did not address the core of the issue or unravel what needs to be dealt with in terms of St. Luke's Home in Cork. I ask him to take the matter up with the Department so that some solution can be found. It is only right and proper that the staff of St. Luke's Home would receive the same pay increases as other staff across the country. It is vitally important for the organisation that this happens. Will the Minister of State take the matter up after this debate so that we can find a solution? My sole purpose in raising this matter is to find a solution for the staff and management of the organisation.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I again thank the Deputy for raising this important matter. As I have stated, I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for public expenditure and reform, Deputy Chambers. Given how diligent Deputy McGrath is, I have no doubt he has already taken the matter up with the Minister. I ask him to outline the specific circumstances to the Minister directly following the debate.

As I mentioned, the community and voluntary sector plays a vital role in delivering essential public services across Ireland. These organisations, while funded by the State, are not public service bodies and their staff are not public servants. Their pay and conditions are set by their employers and not through public service agreements. I acknowledge these organisations do great work.

This year, agreement was reached following discussions led by the Department of Children, Disability and Equality at the WRC. This agreement addressed the funding required to move the pay of such workers in line with current and future public service pay agreements while responding to the fact that such workers are not public servants or employees. This agreement provides for an increase in funding of 9.25% on a phased basis and runs until 31 October 2026. This is in line with the general round increases provided for in the Public Service Agreement 2024-2026. The agreement provides that funding will be adjusted to allow for the application of the equivalent general round pay adjustments as provided for in any successor agreement. Adjustment will be in line with the phasing of any future public service sector pay agreement. The agreement also allows for future adjustments in line with any successor public service pay deals.

There will be a data gathering exercise to support the application of low pay provisions in the future. The data gathering exercise will provide a basis for examining the application of the low pay provisions in future public service pay agreements to the funding for non-public service organisations. The public service agreement provides that minimum increases are attached to four of the seven general round increases provided over the two and a half year period covered by the agreement. This is a significant step in recognising the contribution of workers in the sector, ensuring the sustainability of the services they provide.