Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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12. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality further to a Topical Issue raised on 19 October 2023, if he will outline the current total number of allegations of child sexual abuse involving any member of the Probation Service that he or his Department have been made aware of; if he has considered putting in place a non-adversarial redress scheme, if appropriate; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36677/25]

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy McAuliffe for raising this question. I acknowledge his long-standing interest in this issue and his persistent raising of the matter, which is of significant importance.

I have confirmed with my officials that there have been two historic allegations of child sexual abuse made in relation to staff of the Probation Service. Both relate to alleged incidents in the 1970s by a former staff member who is now deceased. When the first allegation came to the attention of the Probation Service in 2000, An Garda Síochána and relevant services were notified and a criminal investigation was initiated. In recent years, the Probation Service became aware of a second allegation against the same former staff member, who by that time was deceased.

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The matter is currently the subject of a legal claim which is being managed by the State Claims Agency on behalf of my Department.

Since the most recent allegation referred to above, the victims' unit of the Probation Service has put out several communications to encourage any relevant victims to contact it. I have been advised that no further victims have come forward. The Probation Service has confirmed that it has no current allegations on hand.

Like Deputy McAuliffe, I would encourage anyone who has been a victim of any kind of sexual assault to reach out for help and support and to report the matter to An Garda Síochána. There is also a range of victim support services available. These are listed on the victims' charter website.

Deputy McAuliffe raised the issue of whether or not the Department considered the introduction of a redress scheme. As I said, there is a case currently being dealt with by the State Claims Agency, my Department is aware of one other case and no other victims have come forward. In all the circumstances, it would seem more appropriate to allow that case that is currently in the system to be concluded rather than starting a new process at this stage.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the Minister outlining in detail the previous work that has been done on this case. As he said, there is now confirmation by the Department of two reports of allegations of child sexual abuse. In the Minister's words, they relate to a "deceased" member of the Probation Service. Of course, this matter has also been the topic of much media coverage. The "RTÉ Investigates" programme carried out an investigation, entitled "Scouts Dishonour", in which it referred to the then chief scout, the late Joe Lawlor, and allegations in regard to him and his service in the Probation Service. Joe Duffy, on RTÉ, has also discussed this case in much detail.

I appreciate that these cases are incredibly sensitive. Unfortunately, for victims of abuse, there is a stigma in coming forward, but if you were also the subject of the Probation Service, there is almost a double stigma in coming forward because you have to reveal that as well.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. He Deputy put that very sensitively and appropriately. I am aware of the allegations made against Scouting Ireland. I recall the "RTÉ Investigates" programme and, indeed, I very much recall the very powerful work done by Joe Duffy on his programme in interviewing people who had been subject of abuse while they were in the scouts. On the Probation Service, there was a slight overlap, certainly in the case of one individual concerned, between the Probation Service and the scouts. Of course, the vast majority of work done the Probation Service was done in respect of people who were not children but, notwithstanding that, it is an issue that has to be closely watched.

On the basis of the information we have at present, however, in circumstances where there are only two allegations, it would be difficult for me to recommend or propose some form of a redress scheme when the numbers are so limited. I note what the Deputy says that there may be other people out there who are hesitant about coming forward but I would be interested to hear his proposals as to how we could encourage them to do so.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps a redress scheme would be overly complex and result in people receiving justice delayed. Equally, we should not be placing the burden on victims of having to sue the State. That is not necessarily the best way forward. We have seen in other cases where people's only option is to sue the State and often justice is incredibly delayed. Perhaps there is a mechanism here to try to mediate this and to try to come forward with a non-adversarial solution.

The criminal justice process is not an option because the person is deceased but there are also questions about what the State knew about this gentleman's service. He worked for the Probation Service for decades. It is incredibly important that whatever information or files are available to the Department of justice are reviewed and we air what was known. As we have seen with other cases of sexual abuse, it is important there is transparency about what happens.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I will make inquiries in respect of the case that is ongoing at present. If it is the case that there is clearly liability on the part of the State, I would like to see that case resolved in a mediated fashion. I will speak to the Attorney General in respect of that case.

Obviously, the Deputy is correct that it puts many burdens on people to sue the State, but a couple of years ago the Attorney General published a protocol for how the State should deal with persons who were suing it. If it is the case that there is liability on the part of the State, I would like to see that liability acknowledged by the State.

However, sometimes the difficulty in resolving a court case can be in respect of the quantum. I am not saying that is so in this particular case but if there is an issue in respect of quantum, that is when, as the Deputy suggested, a mediator could be put in place to try to see if a mediated settlement could be facilitated.