Dáil debates
Tuesday, 24 June 2025
Ceisteanna - Questions
Industrial Relations
4:00 am
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Labour Employer Economic Forum; and when it will next meet. [18694/25]
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the plenary meeting of the Labour Employer Economic Forum which he chaired on 4 April 2025. [19067/25]
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Labour Employer Economic Forum; and when it will next meet. [32309/25]
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Labour Employer Economic Forum; and when it will next meet. [32397/25]
Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Labour Employer Economic Forum; and when it will next meet. [33549/25]
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the plenary meeting of the Labour Employer Economic Forum which he chaired on 4 April 2025. [33558/25]
Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the plenary meeting of the Labour Employer Economic Forum which he chaired on 4 April 2025. [33561/25]
Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the plenary meeting of the Labour Employer Economic Forum which he recently chaired. [33562/25]
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the Labour Employer Economic Forum; and when it will next meet. [33611/25]
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 9, inclusive, together.
On 4 April, I chaired the first plenary meeting of the Labour Employer Economic Forum since the formation of the new Government. The LEEF is made up of representatives from the Government, employers and trade unions and provides for tripartite dialogue on economic and employment issues as they affect the labour market. The meeting discussed the latest economic and trade developments, in particular the challenges arising from the US decision to impose tariffs on imports from the European Union. The meeting was also briefed on the potential to strengthen the all-island labour market for the benefit of employers and workers on the entire island. There were also updates on preparation of Ireland's action plan on the promotion of collective bargaining, on a number of broader labour market policy developments, and on remote and blended working policies. Finally, the meeting agreed to finalise a work programme for the LEEF for the period ahead and to re-establish a number of subgroups.
Alongside plenary meetings, the LEEF also meets in subgroup format, chaired by the relevant Minister. The recent plenary agreed to re-establishment of the following subgroups: enterprise and employment, chaired by the Minister for Enterprise, Tourism and Employment; apprenticeships, chaired by the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science; early years, chaired by the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality; and pensions, chaired by the Minister for Social Protection. A shared island working group, chaired at official level, has also been re-established.
It was also agreed to re-establish subgroups on health and on housing, following further engagement with relevant Departments and LEEF partners on their respective agendas.
The date of the next meeting of the LEEF plenary has not yet been scheduled.
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Employer Economic Forum is an important opportunity for members of the trade union movement to make representations to the Government with regard to the labour market and the issues which impact it. Legislation has been put forward in this House with regard to the rights of pensioners, particularly pensioners of many State bodies, who after retiring have very little input into the changes to the pension scheme which may impact them. In some cases that relates to increases that may or may not be due, but also we have seen in other sectors changes to the very nature of the scheme itself. Under the auspices of the Labour Employer Economic Forum and the relationship he has with the trade union movement, will the Taoiseach examine ways that pensioners who have retired might have a greater input into the pension schemes which they have paid into over many years?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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The number one issue facing many workers is housing, and the Government has repeatedly claimed both that it will both deliver new social homes and that the planning system is to blame for the lack of delivery so far. This month, however, funding for the delivery of almost 500 social homes has gone up in smoke. Almost 3,500 planned social homes, many with full planning permission, are in jeopardy now facing cost reviews. That is almost a third of the annual social housing delivery target. These public-private partnership deals have collapsed for one reason: private profit. The Government has claimed that the costs are now too high, but we knew they would be. They explicity include provision for the developers to make a profit from the arrangement. Every cent of profit is a cost in excess of what is actually necessary to deliver housing. In light of the collapse of PPP bundle 3 and the reviews of bundles 4 to 7, will the Taoiseach finally abandon the failed policy of public-private partnership and fund councils to deliver bundle 3 as soon as possible?
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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I want to raise with the Taoiseach the issue of union busting and anti-union tactics by companies which are in receipt of huge State contracts and whether he thinks that is acceptable. One of the companies is one of the largest mechanical contractors in the State, Jones Engineering, which has a contract for the national children's hospital and potentially other State contracts.
It has consistently been hostile to members joining the union of their choice, Unite, so much so that it has attached three senior shop stewards to High Court proceedings, subjecting them, potentially, to huge costs and damages. People have also been subjected to unsolicited visits from people knocking on their doors and so on. Does the Taoiseach think these kinds of union-busting tactics are acceptable? Does he not think people working for companies doing State contracts should be entitled to join unions like Unite? Will he make a strong statement on the matter in relation to Jones Engineering?
4:10 am
Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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The people of Waterford are being failed by this Government when it comes to jobs and investment. In the past five years, Waterford has received just a third of the number of IDA visits to Galway, Cork and Limerick. Even counties like Westmeath and Clare are getting more attention than Waterford. This is shown in the figures. Last year, Waterford gained just two new IDA-supported jobs. Over the past two decades, Cork averaged nearly 1,400 jobs created a year through the IDA, Galway 600, Limerick 300 and Waterford just 92. These figures come directly from replies to parliamentary questions I received this week. It is clear we are not seeing balanced regional development in the south east and Waterford; it is neglect. Will the Taoiseach finally admit the IDA strategy is failing in Waterford? Will he outline the steps that he, as Taoiseach and Head of Government, will take to address this imbalance?
Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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We have often discussed the importance of policymakers recognising the effort and energy that goes into running a business and sustaining high levels of employment. The plight of SMEs in particular has been raised on the floor of the Dáil, as has the need for policies to make sure we encourage and incentivise SMEs to scale up to be able to pursue research and innovation for their own benefit and for upskilling their wider workforce.
I also raise the importance of the all-island labour market. It was discussed at the recent meeting of the LEEF and the ESRI also conducted a study recently on it. Will the Taoiseach share his thoughts on how the Government intends to deal with the potential and real divergence in employment standards between the UK and the European Union that will manifest on the Border, in particular for smaller employers trying to employ people who may live on the other side of the Border? There are differing expectations regarding flexible and remote working. How can those expectations be aligned? Has work been done at North-South Ministerial Council level and in direct relationship with the Northern Ireland Executive?
Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his update and welcome the reconvening of the Labour Employer Economic Forum under his chairmanship. It is clear the forum plays a vital role in bringing Government, employers and unions together, especially in times of uncertainty. As someone who engages regularly with small business owners and retailers across the country and in my county, Offaly, I welcome the recognition of the need to support sectors most exposed to global pressures. SMEs and retail businesses in our towns are the heart of our local economies. They create jobs, drive community life and have shown remarkable resilience in recent years. I am encouraged by the Taoiseach's commitment to ongoing dialogue. I ask that the specific needs of SMEs, especially in areas like staffing, digital transformation and access to supports, remain front and centre in the LEEF's upcoming work programme. This collaborative approach is the right one. I look forward to seeing practical outcomes that will make a real difference to businesses on the ground.
Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the update on the Labour Employer Economic Forum. I wish to ask about a separate matter regarding multiple schools in my constituency which have been in contact with me in the past week. In Castlehackett, Esker, Annagh Hill, St. Oliver's special education school and Peterswell, national schools spread right across Galway East have raised significant concerns with me around SNA allocations and reviews. A lot of the schools have had reviews and were recommended more SNA support. They have identified needs coming in in September. Is there a plan to ensure these schools are catered to come September?
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I back up the comments of Deputy Moynihan. I have brought up previously with the Taoiseach the tax implications of remote working for companies and the impact that has on employees. Action needs to be taken to deal with that. On tariffs and engagement with unions and employers, what are the major issues and worries about what is coming down the line? What does the Government propose? What are the asks? I would like to think the Taoiseach is working alongside the Minister to deal with the apprenticeship issue. There is a fear regarding ETB settings that there will be a delay because of the shortfall in funding. There is a big hole of €40 million to €50 million. I submitted a Topical Issue with Deputy Cullinane about this. It needs to be on the agenda. There can be no delay.
I hope the Taoiseach is aware of the issue regarding the army pensions Act, which needs to updated.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The question is about the LEEF.
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I know. This relates to Michael McNeela, who was killed in 1989 on peacekeeping duties.
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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His father was not able to receive the pension after the mother of Michael McNeela died.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy. Your time is up.
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is with the Tánaiste at the minute. He seems supportive-----
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I would like to think the Taoiseach would also be and that this could be delivered.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I think Deputy McAuliffe was the first contributor. He raised pensions and pensioners' input into their pension issues. It has been an ongoing concern for pensioners generally across the economy, particularly for public sector pensioners or those in agencies and so forth. There is a sense that once they leave employment, they lack any real influence over their pensions in the future. I will raise that issue with the Minister for public expenditure, who governs pensions within the public service, and the Minister for Social Protection. There is a pensions ombudsman. A lot of frameworks that were not there in times past can help pensioners to access details about their pensions. It is a growing issue. Recently, the CIÉ pensions issue was resolved through good negotiations and the involvement of unions. That illustrates the degree to which unions can play a constructive role on behalf of workers in respect of their pensions.
Deputy Murphy raised the PPPs. I presume and draw from my conclusions that he supports the decision not to go ahead with PPPs that were too expensive in terms of the cost per house. That is the decision the Minister for housing took when he looked at the figures that came in after tender. They were excessive and could not be justified at that stage.
Deputy Coppinger raised an issue. I cannot comment on any specific company. In Ireland, we are working through the LEEF on a collective bargaining action plan. The directive on adequate minimum wages in the European Union was published in 2022. It was transposed by Ireland by 15 November 2024. Under Article 4, the directive aims to promote collective bargaining on wages in all member states. In addition, each member state with a collective bargaining coverage rate below a threshold of 80%, as in Ireland, shall provide a framework of enabling conditions for collective bargaining and establish an action plan to promote collective bargaining. A technical group was established with the Department of enterprise and social partners in 2023 to consider the possible content of Ireland's action plan. A public consultation was also held on the content of the action plan. That closed in May this year. The Department is now reviewing submissions. They will help to guide the finalisation of proposals, both legislative and administrative, which may be considered for inclusion in Ireland's action plan. It will be published by the end of 2025 in line with the requirements of the EU directive.
Deputy McGuinness raised the question of investment in Waterford. I have to disagree; I think there has been significant investment in Waterford over the past five years in particular. There is now a university in the south east, with a strong campus in Waterford benefiting from significant investment. Waterford University Hospital, likewise, has benefited from significant investment. The North Quays project in the urban regeneration and development fund has been a significant investment. On FDI, the IDA is focused on Waterford. Some good companies have located there, across life sciences and financial services, which is positive. You cannot just go on one year because in some years there could be a significant increase and in others there can be a lapse. An individual company could have a decline.
Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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The trend is over 20 years.
4:20 am
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is going to be a flow and a fluidity in this from year to year, but the overall picture of investment in the south east and in Waterford has been positive and will continue to be in terms of Government commitment to the county.
Deputy Moynihan raised the very important issue of SMEs, and that is covered by the LEEF. Divergence in employment standards and taxation issues between North and South were mentioned. We have more work to do under the shared island aegis in the context of cross-Border workers. The Minister for Finance has been engaging with the Minister for Finance in the Executive. The taxation issues are thorny and complex because they also relate to how cross-border taxation is dealt with in the European Union itself. It is a growing issue since the onset of remote working. Deputy Ó Murchú raised this as well. It is a continuing issue. The Minister for Finance is focused on it. It is something LEEF is concerned about. Supply chains are becoming more seamless between North and South and in some sectors like dairy and energy it is a seamless market or a continuum of trade and so on. It is therefore important we try to get some position that is advantageous to workers, but we do not necessarily want to distort the economy of either jurisdiction, especially the North, in terms of its labour force.
Deputy Dolan raised schools. Schools do not get considered by the LEEF. SNA allocations will obviously have to be fed through the National Council for Special Education, which makes recommendations. On the allocation of SNAs, the numbers have grown exponentially and there are about 20,000 SNAs in the system. I will alert the Minister for education to the Deputy's raising of these issues.
Deputy Ó Murchú raised the tariff and the Army pensions. Again, I will relay that to the Tánaiste. I dealt with remote working. The LEEF has considered that. It is very conscious of the potential implications of tariffs on trade for employment. We have urged that we avoid a knee-jerk reaction. People were immediately looking for subsidies, which would have been the wrong thing because that situation has not unfolded yet. A lot depends on the nature of the trade deal between the European Union and the United States. I hope they reach a headline agreement before 8 July. I am hopeful they will and that the landing zone is one we can all live with, although it will be challenging and difficult for many companies, such as those in agrifood and general exports into the US. If there is a minimum floor of a tariff, that could be challenging for companies, so we will assess it in the round in terms of how we deal with it.