Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister of State for taking this on behalf of the Minister for Education and Youth. Listening to him respond to the last matter, I understand his passion for primary schools, which we all share. Primary schools are at the hub of all our communities and we often marvel at the work done by principals in primary schools who not only are they leading in the education of the children in the schools, but they are responsible, essentially, for being project managers within the school as well. Schools get paid a capitation grant to manage their day-to-day operations and some people wonder what that goes towards. It covers everything from cleaning to electricity, sanitary wear, water, insurance, heating, the school website, security, the fire alarm, the photocopier, waste disposal, accounting and telephone costs. Everything in a normal household or business is managed, effectively, within the school community.

The challenge, as the Minister of State knows well, is those costs have been continuing to rise. In the current school year the capitation payment to primary schools is €200 but it is to increase from this September to €224. However, because of cost-of-living increases announced in the budget last year primary schools received an extra €36 per student in the 2024-2025 school year. Consequently, in real terms the capitation grant for the 2024-2025 year, including the cost-of-living allowance per pupil, was €236, whereas in the coming year it will be €224. While the core grant has certainly increased by 12% and that is welcome, without the cost-of-living provision being made primary schools will be operating on less money in net terms.

I am not going to say second level schools are adequately funded when it comes to capitation either, as they need additional resources. However, the per pupil allocation from this September for second level students is €386. I get that second level students are a bit bigger, but we are still often talking about broadly the same footprint and the same responsibilities that have to be managed within the school. That there is such a disparity - and every time there is a welcome increase that disparity grows - begs the question as to why that difference exists. What we have seen is an increased reliance by our primary schools on voluntary contributions and ones from the wider community. That contributes to a greater disparity between schools.

Schools that are better at fundraising, particularly if they are in better-off areas, are much more able to generate income to carry out what is the day to day work of a school. I also raise a question on capitation. I get that it is per head. There is no regard to the physical size of the school or the type of building it is. If you are operating in a really old school that is hard to heat, as opposed to a modern school, your heating costs are far more substantial. There is a need for an overall review to look at the full economic cost of running our primary schools, but there is a question about why the disparity continues between primary and second level.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I had to check my phone because in the Deputy's new guise as Oireachtas AI committee chairperson, I had to see if he had been reading my phone for the correspondence I have just had with the principal of a local national school in my area on more or less this exact point. This is an issue that regularly comes up for every Member of this House and I thank the Deputy for giving me the opportunity to outline to the House, on behalf of the Minister, the position as to why the capitation grant for primary schools is less than that paid to secondary schools.

As the Deputy knows, the Government is committed to increasing funding to support schools and the programme for Government commits to increasing capitation funding to all schools of all types to ensure they can meet the elevated day to day running costs. The commitment in the programme for Government builds on the progress that has been made in recent years including a more than €30 million permanent increase in capitation funding. This represents an increase of circa 12% on current standard rates and results in the standard rates increasing from €200 to €224 for primary schools and from €345 to €386 per student in post-primary schools from September 2025. Over the past two budgets there has been an increase of 22%, give or take, in the level of capitation rates paid to all schools.

The Department is committed to providing funding to recognised primary and post-primary schools in the free education scheme by way of per capita grants. The two main grants are the capitation grant to cater for day to day running costs such as heating, lighting, cleaning, insurance and general upkeep and the ancillary grant to cater for the cost of employing ancillary services staff. Schools have the flexibility to use capitation funding provided for general running costs and ancillary funding provided for caretaking and secretarial services as a common grant from which the board of management can allocate according to its own priorities. Primary schools with fewer than 60 pupils are paid the capitation and ancillary grants on the basis of having 60 pupils, no less. In addition to these grants, €45 million in cost-of-living supports were issued in November 2024 to support all recognised primary and post-primary schools in the free education system. This additional funding announced in the budget is designed to assist schools with increased day to day running costs such as the heating and electricity issues laid out by the Deputy. The funding was paid at a rate of €36 per pupil in primary schools and €55 per student in post-primary schools. Enhanced rates were also paid in respect of pupils with special educational needs and pupils from a Traveller background.

The Department of Education is aware that costs and funding can pose a particular problem for schools, and is constantly working to address this matter and to enhance the financial and other supports available. While not wishing to pre-empt the outcomes of any future budget negotiations or fiscal parameters agreed by Government, the Department will continue to seek and prioritise the funding required to meet the ongoing costs. It is difficult to make precise comparisons between the levels of grants paid and the actual costs of running schools at primary and post-primary level. In general, and put simply, post-primary schools are larger than primary schools. They have specialist rooms such as laboratories, workshops etc. This leads to higher unit costs for heat, light, power, maintenance and cleaning. There are also additional resources required at post-primary level for specialist subjects, such as home economics, wood technology, engineering, graphics and applied technology. There is therefore a difference in the level of capitation funding provided to primary and post-primary schools. The current standard rate of capitation grant is €200 per pupil in primary schools and €345 per student in post-primary schools.

What the Department will not let me say is that it is not that we are comparing apples and oranges. It is that perhaps we are comparing Golden Delicious and Granny Smiths. They are different sized entities, and the pupils are a different size. There are more staff and a requirement for more staff. The costs are on the basis that trying to provide catering facilities in post-primary schools is different from the resources needed for the free hot school meals provided at primary level. There will always be a need to increase the funding for both primary and post-primary but there will always be a difference between those schools which the Deputy and I know clearly through our work.

Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I totally get that there are differences between schools. Even within the primary school sector, I made the point that an old school that is very difficult to heat is totally different to a new modern build school. However, a lot of the costs will be the same. There is obviously a question about the overall quantum and there is certainly a case for additional funding for second-level schools. It is about the scale of the difference, and I get the Minister of State's point. The last point in the Department's statement is that this year it is €200 per pupil at primary level. It is €345 at second level. Because of a 12% increase applied to both, it will from this September go to €224 and €386. The actual financial difference is continuing to grow. We all know, when we go into primary schools that every one of them is constantly facing the challenges of meeting the day to day running costs. The model has been used since the 1960s so there is a case to review what is the best economic model to ensure the administrative side of primary schools can be dealt with. I appreciate we are moving into budget negotiations, but the fact that we are now talking about going to €224 for primary school students and €386 at second level represents a significant difference. As a priority we need to address the question of the funding of the administration of our primary schools.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will address three points in response. I will come to a broader point, but the first is that if there are specific schools, the FSSU on behalf of the Department plays a crucial role in seeing where there are funding gaps. In order for the Department to assess the current financial situation, the school needs to engage with the FSSU for the purpose. The Department will refer this school to the FSSU once confirmation of the situation is confirmed. If you have an individual school in your constituency facing specific needs that is where the FSSU can work in tandem with the Department. That is the first specific point. However, when a principal goes to you, they will thank you for that but say it is not going to solve their issue in the next 24 to 48 hours, and you should talk about that.

Another area relates to the need to look at the overall economic model. The Deputy is right. There is no way I can disagree with that. If we are looking at a model based on a 1960s parameter, it is of course time to review or refresh that 60 years on. I am more than happy to make that argument to the Minister on the Deputy's behalf. However, the final point relates to the administrative costs of running schools at primary level. Never mind the 1960s, the administrative costs compared with six years ago are completely unrecognisable. The wonderful advances in special education provision, free hot meals provision and the extra ability for schools to do more comes with a greater cost. It comes with a greater cost, but those costs are not being matched. Those costs and responsibilities are falling on the shoulders of principals, many of them teaching principals. We regularly get questions from constituents as to why their child does not have free hot school meals. It is either due to space or capacity with staff. That is an area that needs review, and I would be more than happy to work with the Deputy to ensure that review is forthcoming and works to the betterment of all our schools.