Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I welcome all those in the Gallery.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The scandal of abuse and neglect of elderly residents at two of the country's nursing homes has deepened with the publication of a HIQA report last night. It revealed that one of those homes, Beneavin Manor in Glasnevin, had almost 200 allegations of abuse of residents in the past three years. HIQA has notified the Garda of its concerns regarding the two nursing homes concerned and has requested that Emeis Ireland, the company that owns the two facilities, stop admissions to all 25 of the homes it controls. How can we have 108 allegations of abuse at just one nursing home, yet it took an RTÉ programme to expose the scandal?

What we witnessed on our TV screens was horrific. Vulnerable elderly people were manhandled, neglected, disrespected, pushed down hallways and forced roughly into chairs by the very people who were supposed to care for them. Their families are absolutely devastated and are calling on the Government to act now. The HIQA report reveals that these were not one-off failures in care caught on camera. The culture of abuse and neglect at Beneavin Manor was obviously endemic, hardwired into the operation of the home and went on for a very long time.

It is clear that Emeis did not fear HIQA. Quite frankly, it did not give a toss about regulations or inspections. It is little wonder because the hands of HIQA are tied behind its back. It does not have the legal power to impose fines. The corporate entities that own these nursing homes are out of their reach. HIQA badly needs new powers to deal with both of these fundamentals. The toxic culture in these nursing homes and the regulatory and governance failure that allows this wholesale abuse of elderly residents are a direct result of Government policy. For decades, campaigners have called for robust adult safeguarding legislation to protect residents in nursing homes, but their calls have been ignored by the Government.

Some 20 years on from the big promises of change made after Leas Cross, we have had a litany of abuse scandals, including the Brandon and Grace cases and Áras Attracta. We have had case after case of abuse after abuse, yet the Government sits on its hands. There is no safeguarding legislation, mandatory reporting or legal right of entry for social care teams to investigate complaints. There is no accountability ever.

This abuse and neglect has happened with the corporate takeover of nursing homes and care. Twenty years ago, 30% of homes were in private hands. Today, that stands at 80%. The State walks away from its responsibilities and the profit of wealthy companies is put above the care and dignity of the very people who built this country. Is toradh é an scannal seo maidir le drochíde agus neamhaird a léiríodh do shean daoine a bhí ina gcónaí i dtithe altranais ar theip an Rialtais gníomhú. Teastaíonn reachtaíocht láidir a chosnóidh daoine fásta go práinneach.

The Taoiseach may well seek to distance the Government from this scandal, but the fact is that the neglect and abuse and weak regulation and oversight are a direct result of Government policy, a policy to allow big corporates to take over nursing homes. The Government needs to act now. When will the Taoiseach listen to the calls of families and campaigners? When will HIQA have the powers it needs? When will the Taoiseach bring forward robust safeguarding and mandatory reporting legislation and ensure that our elderly citizens are safe and respected?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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One of the most difficult decisions for any family to have to take is to place a loved one in a nursing home. It is a very difficult decision. The least people can expect is that the dignity of their loved one will be respected at all times and that their loved one will be looked after, cared for and not be subjected to the abuse, neglect and unacceptable behaviour revealed in the "Prime Time Investigates" programme. I pay tribute to RTÉ for the important programme that dealt with this issue.

There is a fundamental obligation on the nursing homes concerned, and all involved, to look after people in their care. In no circumstances can the abuse of people be tolerated. People have a right to expect that level of care.

Additional measures to strengthen the powers of the chief inspector of HIQA have been granted from 2017 up to 2021 and onwards. A range of additional measures, capacity, power and so on were outlined in the interim report of HIQA published yesterday.

There are some very disturbing and clear facts in the interim report. For example, 61% of the homes in question did not adhere to fire regulations. That is a red alarm. There is a power to close nursing homes, which is sometimes described as a nuclear option. In my view, when things are at the level as revealed in this report, in terms of more fundamental issues like that, where clearly the health and safety of residents is at stake, that is an option.

I know it brings with it a whole range of issues but it is one that in the past used to be invoked and the HSE would be engaged. We are all familiar with HIQA investigations and reports in which it would have recommended closure. People would ask about their loved ones and ask where they should go but there does come a point if it reaches a level. The lack of compliance in a number of key areas is clear in the report. The one that jumps out, in my view, is with regard to the fire regulations. There are other aspects of either partial compliance or non-compliance. This is deeply traumatic for the families involved. In our system approximately 75% of our nursing home centres are in private hands, 20% are publicly owned and approximately 3.5% are section 38 or section 39 organisations. The fair deal scheme was the last major intervention trying to facilitate making it more affordable for people in respect of sending their loved ones and placing their loved ones in nursing homes.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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In recent years the push has been towards home care but home care also involves privatised nursing care. People contract in people to help. I will come back to the final point I was going to make.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is not a commentator on these matters. He is after giving me a whole spiel there that told me precisely nothing, with all due respect. A total of 198 complaints were made against a nursing home with not a cent of financial penalty. There were no consequences until RTÉ showed up. This tells us the system is not working. It is not sufficient for the Taoiseach to take to his feet and offer tea and sympathy. We all know how difficult it is for anybody to make a decision to place a loved one in a nursing home and how difficult it is for the person themselves to lose that sense of autonomy that comes with all of that. The Taoiseach should know also there are people throughout the State terrified they would ever end up in a nursing home. More families are worried sick about the treatment of their loved ones in these facilities. I have made the point on the corporate takeover of care and the Government has facilitated that. HIQA cannot investigate individual complaints.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It cannot impose financial penalties. It cannot reach into these corporate structures. What is the Taoiseach going to do about that? Will he please answer my question on safeguarding legislation-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy. Your time is up. The Taoiseach to respond, please.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----mandatory reporting and the need for social care teams to have access to these homes to protect these very vulnerable elderly people?

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The interim report outlines a whole series of measures that were taken to enhance and strengthen the measures and powers of the chief inspector of HIQA, in terms of the legal timeframe for decisions by the chief-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The CEO of HIQA is before a committee today looking for more powers. Answer my questions.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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You are interrupting again, Deputy. I have had enough of that now. I have the floor now.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Then answer the questions.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me, Deputy, please resume your seat and afford the Taoiseach the same benefit that you had.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will answer it but you have a tactic all the time-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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No, answer the question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----of interrupting every time I get to my feet and make a point.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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And you never interrupt?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not interrupt Deputies.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I can check the record if you want. You do it regularly.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The clock is ticking if you wish to have an answer. Deputy Mac Lochlainn, it is not your question. I ask the Taoiseach to please resume his response.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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He is accusing people of doing something he is guilty of regularly.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Taoiseach, please resume your response.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The fundamental power that HIQA has, particularly in the face of breaches, in my view, and it is one that should not be balked at, is cancellation of the licence. In my view, this is the teeth that HIQA has. Yes, we do need to review the methodology-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not sufficient.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Sorry, Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----of HIQA and it has said it itself.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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And the CEO-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, sorry I-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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No, I understand.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Hold on a second-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Taoiseach, it is not your fault and it is certainly not the other Members-----

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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If you did not waffle as much in the first four minutes.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Let me say please Taoiseach-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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How long is this going to continue?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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This is the problem, Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not my problem. I am not in a position now to answer.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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They are not hearing the answer because they are not listening.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot get my points across because of this constant-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Yes, I agree.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach had five minutes. If he did have an answer, he could have given it in five minutes.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Ceann Comhairle, given what has happened and what has happened in the past number of weeks, I want a review of how this is happening. I am not going to come in here-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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It is not your fault, Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and listen to everybody and give them the courtesy of listening and not be allowed to reply.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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That is the point.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is fundamentally wrong.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It needs an intervention from the Ceann Comhairle-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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My intervention is that the answer-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and the Whips as well, and the Chief Whip, to sort this out.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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They have a timeframe-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Then answer the questions that are put to you.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me, Deputy. There is a timeframe in which the Taoiseach can provide the answer.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Resign as Taoiseach. That is the easiest way.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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If they choose not to listen, it is kind of pointless asking the question. The reality is that everybody should be afforded the opportunity, as Deputy McDonald was by her colleagues, to ask a question.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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And I would expect answers-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I would expect-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----to my questions.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am speaking, Deputy.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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As am I. I am entitled to answers to my questions.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am speaking, Deputy, so I would expect that you stop speaking when I speak. What I am asking is that everybody afford each other the same level of respect. In that way the House will operate with decorum. I call Deputy Bacik.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Last week on Wednesday, and again on Thursday, I and Deputy Sherlock raised on Leaders' Questions the scandal of abuse in nursing homes. We sought assurances from the Taoiseach on Wednesday and from the Tánaiste on Thursday in respect of protections against abuse. This week again we see more serious concerns raised, with HIQA's interim report released last night revealing to us that HIQA had heard of the 200 allegations of abuse against residents in Beneavin Manor made since 2022 and 40 more were disclosed in respect of residents in Portlaoise.

It is no exaggeration to say that trust in the model of private and for-profit nursing home care has been shattered since Aoife Hegarty and her RTÉ team broadcast the coverage of abuse and neglect of residents in those homes. Faith in the system of inspections has also been greatly damaged in this time. Unfortunately, the presentations of HIQA's CEO and chief inspectors at this morning's health committee has raised more questions than answers about the system of inspection and oversight. Residents of nursing homes deserves security, safety and dignity. That is all any of us want for ourselves and for our loved ones. We want to know that complaints will be taken seriously, that there will be zero tolerance of abuse, and that there will be real consequences for those who carry out abuse or for the management of nursing homes where abuse is carried out and facilitated.

The presentations made before today's meeting of the health committee will not have reassured anyone. Inconsistencies permeate in the interim report and in the opening statement. The process in place for escalating complaints, in particular, remains really unclear. HIQA's sole tool for responding to complaints appears to be restricting admissions, short of making a report to the Garda. What use is restricting admissions for those already resident in a home? Shockingly, it seems that an impugned home arguably has more authority to lift the restriction than even HIQA does. There is an issue about consequences. Serious concerns therefore remain about HIQA's capacity to keep nursing home residents safe.

There is also a pressing issue which arises from this morning's hearing. The report HIQA published last night gave the impression that the organisation was not on notice of all that the RTÉ team had unveiled prior to broadcast, and that the HIQA team did not know about it in advance. However, information shared with my colleague, Deputy Sherlock, shows that HIQA had received detailed protected disclosures prior to broadcast and that it received seven pages of correspondence from Aoife Hegarty herself 12 days before broadcast. This information included allegations relating to a third nursing home not featured in the RTÉ programme. When Deputy Sherlock asked this morning about this, HIQA's chief inspector was nothing short of evasive.

People need to know the extent of abuse in nursing homes. We need assurances that HIQA is capable of investigating and effectively addressing abuse. The horror stories of private nursing home facilities are spreading. We are all hearing them. Will the Taoiseach tell us how many Audeon Guys are suffering in silence throughout the country today? What will the Taoiseach do to ensure there is effective safeguarding in place? Will he introduce legislation before the summer recess? Will he ensure that HIQA has the necessary teeth to deliver sanctions where abuse occurs?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy. I call the Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I fully agree with what Deputy Bacik is saying in respect of people's entitlement and families when they place their loved ones into nursing homes. It is absolutely shocking and scandalous there would be any abuse of people residing and living nursing homes. There is a range of existing legislation, including the 2007 Act amended on a number of occasions. There are a lot of measures and powers available to HIQA in respect of this. There is a forthcoming national policy on adult safeguarding for the health and social care sector. This will set out how existing protections can be strengthened. It will be brought to the Government shortly. It will commit to the development of adult safeguarding legislation for the sector. We have included a health (adult safeguarding) Bill in our legislative programme to facilitate this.

It is complex stuff. Let us not pretend. When events of this kind happen, people tend to rush and say "This is the answer". A more comprehensive response is required, including adult safeguarding legislation. I fully agree with the Deputy on that. I have no issue with larger fines being levied but I believe, and this is a difficult balance, the option of closing has to be on the table. Otherwise, people will not fear. I recall that eight or nine years ago, when HIQA was going to various facilities, people would object and say it could not close them. I am just saying this as something I believe. Yes, it is then up to the HSE and others to resolve the consequential crisis that occurs if a decision to close is made. We should not baulk from that decision because of that. That would send a real message, but not just a message, because it is an action and an intervention which is allowed for under the law. If there is a series of non-compliance, as seems to be the case in respect of the interim report from HIQA, that option should be on the table.

If the Deputy has noticed what has happened since the "RTÉ Investigates" programme, safeguarding teams have gone in. The director of nursing of the HSE has sent them in now. Where the protection of people is involved, the HSE has every remit to get involved and protect, which we did during Covid. There was huge support of nursing homes during Covid because it was adjudged they were not in a position to deal with the wider impact of Covid. Huge State supports went into nursing homes via the Health Service Executive. Where alarm bells are raised and there is a clear issue around the protection of people and the prevention of abuse, there needs to be an intervention by the health authorities, once HIQA has raised the alarms, to safeguard people. That is already there and can be done.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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On the safeguarding piece, we are not rushing into this. The Law Reform Commission published a report last year. Just two weeks ago, Safeguarding Ireland published a clear blueprint of pathways and necessary steps for the Government to take. During debates on nursing home care, I think the Minister of State with responsibility for older persons said the safeguarding Bill would be introduced in this House before the summer recess.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Who said that?

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I understand the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, said that during the debate. We need clarity and a timeline, with respect, on the safeguarding legislation and, crucially, on the issue of HIQA powers. People are desperately seeking a clear pathway for making complaints, including a pathway to escalate a complaint. That is sadly lacking. As the Taoiseach rightly said, people are seeking a clear indication that HIQA has effective sanctions available to it, including the sanction of temporary closure, if necessary. I sat yesterday in a café in my constituency with a family whose mother had been severely badly treated in a nursing home. They pointed out to me that the café could be closed temporarily if food standards fell short of statutory rules, but the nursing home cannot be shut down in the same way. That is where we need to go. We need effective sanctions and effective complaint pathways.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The power to remove or cancel a registration is there.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I raised short-term closures.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Eight nursing homes had their registration removed last year. It has happened and can happen. Looking at the protected disclosures and the list of complaints in respect of these nursing homes, one could argue that the case merited that type of intervention. However, I think the interim report contains an argument made by HIQA that the profile of one of the nursing homes was completely changed from the time of the inspection in November to February. That is what HIQA is saying in terms of numbers and so on and the nature of them. Legislation on its own is important, but so are behaviour and obligations. Nursing homes have obligations. Some very good nursing homes fulfil their obligations. There is a more fundamental point, which we should come back to again as an Oireachtas, in terms of what the balance is between public, private and home care. Most home care will be private.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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I turn to another gross institutional failure of the State, namely, the Irish Prison Service, which is in crisis as we speak. That is not a word that I use lightly. Right now, 5,415 people are in our prisons, with more than 400 of them sleeping on floors. Prison officers and inmates are living and working in dangerously overcrowded and volatile conditions. We have been repeatedly warned that there are immediate safety risks. Inmates are being held in degrading conditions. We have heard stories of people being confined for up to 22 hours a day, often beside unpartitioned toilets and denied access to basic rehabilitation services. That is nothing short of institutional abandonment. This crisis is not simply the result of rising prisoner numbers; it is the direct consequence of the political decisions of a Government that is determined to appear tough, even if it means acting recklessly.

In correspondence published this week, the director general of the Irish Prison Service issued a stark warning to the Government. Caron McCaffrey said the Government decision to crack down on immigration and imprison asylum seekers will "necessitate the early release of more serious and high-risk offenders". Ms McCaffrey sent her letter in 2024. Since then, the Government has doubled down on this dangerous approach. Recently, 28 people facing deportation were detained for nearly a month in advance of a deportation flight to Nigeria. These people were detained in prison purely for administrative reasons at a cost to the State of more than €200,000. They were also put on a flight costing another €350,000 when it was finally arranged. This is the result of the Government's Trumpian posturing-----

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Trumpian.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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-----when it comes to this action. It is imprisoning the vulnerable to send a message, all while more serious offenders operating within the machinery of organised crime are let out the back door early. This is performative cruelty at its most blatant.

Organised crime groups are thriving in communities that are already deeply neglected. Releasing those involved in these networks will send a chillingly clear message that these communities will continue to flounder while the mid-level gangs entrenched within them will flourish. It is performance dressed up as policy and it is putting communities at risk. Organised crime groups are deeply embedded in these communities, recruiting younger and younger members. Is it now the Government policy that gang-affiliated offenders should continue to be released from prison early to make room for those facing low-level immigration charges? Does the Taoiseach believe this sends the "tough on crime" message we often hear coming from Government because it clearly does not? It sends a message that this Government is willing to sacrifice public safety for political optics. I do not believe for a second that prison in its current form is working. We know that more than six out of ten people released from prison will reoffend, but this policy is dangerous. How can the Taoiseach possibly justify a policy where being tough on immigration takes precedence over being smart or safe when it comes to crime?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's juxtaposition of the migration issue with the genuinely serious problem of overcrowding in prisons is stretching credibility.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a false juxtaposition.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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The Government is putting people in prison for coming into the country.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, allow the Taoiseach to answer.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, I did not interrupt the Deputy. I just want to make the point. The Deputy said there are more than 5,000 prisoners. He is saying that if a number of asylum seekers are imprisoned, for whatever reason, they should not be, irrespective of what the reasons might be. That is what he indicated. His suggestion that it is all about some performance for the optics that we just want to get tough on migration, imprisoning a few and letting criminals go free is a preposterous proposition and assertion, and it is wrong.

Let us take it bit by bit. Every country in the world has rules in respect of migration. We issue work permits for people who want to legally come into the country to work. We issue visas for people who want to stay in the country and so on, be it a holiday visa or whatever type of visa. There is a variety of visas. We have visa agreements with other countries. There is freedom of mobility within the European Union. All of that has been positive for this country, but there has to be rules around migration. The Government is very clear on that. The Minister for justice, Deputy O'Callaghan, has been very clear on that. It is not optics; it is just common sense. We will reject any assertion that Ireland is an open-border territory. It is not. We have never had open borders because there has always been a system.

There is a very serious issue in terms of prison overcrowding. Two weeks ago, the Minister brought proposals to Government to speed up the construction of 960 prison spaces.

That will happen. It will take four years, between the planning, getting the construction work done and completing part of it. That is an immediate response. There will also be more medium-term responses in terms of prison capacity.

Third, a range of measures have been taken in recent years in the context of getting tough on crime. I refer here to legislation to criminalise the grooming of children into a life of crime, rolling out a support programme to break the link between gangs and the children they try to recruit, strengthening CAB's ability to target the proceeds of crime and speeding up the process to dispose of assets for the benefit of the State.

The Garda National Drugs and Organised Crime Bureau is leading in tackling of all forms of drug trafficking and the supply of illicit drugs in Ireland. More than €627 million in illicit drugs have been seized by the bureau, as well as firearms and so on. The Minister for Justice, Deputy O'Callaghan, and the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, recently launched a drive in respect of a drug-related intimidation and violence engagement project. That will have impact. The Garda workforce is also increasing.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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It is sometimes difficult not to interrupt the Taoiseach when he is purposely distorting-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry?

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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It is sometimes difficult not to interrupt when the Taoiseach is purposely distorting what exactly it is that he is trying to say. Politics is about choices. He knows this. We prisons that are overcrowded to the point where multiple sources, including those in the area of security and civil servants, have confirmed that a number of prisoners, including those suspected to be members of organised crime gangs, have been released. While the Government is doing this, other people detained in our prisons are awaiting deportation flights. Once those flights happen, we have a justice Minister who talks to "Morning Ireland" or whatever newspaper as if he is a general coming home from war. Our prisons are overcrowded.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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We have a situation that is detrimental to the human condition. For the purposes of the Government's performative cruelty, we are now putting people who are awaiting deportation flights into prison. They are in every prison, including Mountjoy and Dóchas. People are being taken out of IPAS centres and brought to prison. All the while, the Government is releasing drug dealers back into communities. That is its choice. That is no distortion. The Government has to own that because that is the choice it is making.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy started by saying it is very difficult not to interrupt. I respectfully suggest-----

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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Sorry?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy said it was with great difficulty he could not but interrupt. He has never had any difficulty interrupting from my experience in the House.

There is a prison overpopulation issue. That is accepted by the Government. The Minister has brought forward proposals which will result in about 960 additional prison spaces. That can be done as quickly as possible. Opposition is being created where this expansion is happening. I have no doubt that other members of the Deputy's party may very well be criticising some of the decisions the Minister has taken regarding the location of those prisons. That is the consistency of political opposition. I suppose it is a condition of it.

On migration, what is the Deputy suggesting? Is it that there be no sanctions at all for those who are breaking our laws in respect of migration?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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That was not a question for answer.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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This is ridiculous.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There has to be a balance. I suggest that the Deputy's basic assertion is wrong and flawed.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Lady's Island Lake in County Wexford is the largest saltwater lagoon in Ireland. It provides refuge for a variety of wildfowl. That is why it is protected under both the birds and habitats directives. It surrounds Our Lady's Island, which is a beautiful and ancient place of pilgrimage. Unfortunately, Lady's Island Lake is also highly polluted. The environmental protection agency, EPA, has been studying the lake for the past two years. The report it published in January makes for grim reading. It states, "the ecology of this lagoon has been severely damaged by nutrient over-enrichment resulting in harmful algal blooms and fish kills." It goes on to say:

The continued decline of Lady's Island Lake and other saline lagoons in Ireland will result in the loss of many specialised species, the disappearance of feeding grounds for migratory birds and reduce the recreational and aesthetic value of these waters.

One of the report's authors, Dr. Cilian Roden, told the Irish Independent in January last year that the situation is so bad, the lagoon's glow can be seen from space.

The EPA's research was discussed at the joint Oireachtas committee on environment last week. One point emerged crystal clear from the EPA report, namely that no improvement in the lake's ecology will be possible without a large reduction in nutrient run-off from land. It is important we do not frame this as blaming farmers, but the impact of nutrient run-off at this significant site is absolutely clear. So too are the recommendations from the EPA on how we can save Lady's Island Lake. We must enforce existing regulations on agricultural nutrients entering the lake, help farmers change their practices and improve the buffer zones around the water sources flowing into the lake.

The evidence put before the Oireachtas committee included a newspaper article from 1983 describing pollution in the lake. This is not some new environmental catastrophe; this problem has been in the making for more than 40 years and has been allowed to continue. All the various enforcement and accountability arms of the State, including local authority inspections, Teagasc and other mechanisms, failed to protect Lady's Island Lake.

If agricultural run-off is the recognised driver of the pollution of the lake, will the Taoiseach task the Minister for agriculture to take the lead here? Will he agree that it must be a priority to reverse the pollution of the lake? In light of the absence of sufficient action for more than four decades, a solution needs force and the political clout a senior Cabinet Minister brings in order to bring together the relevant stakeholders and ensure that they deliver. Will the Taoiseach task the Minister with ensuring that action is taken to stop an ecological disaster that is unfolding in real time and in full view of us all?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Deputy this must be a priority to reverse the pollution of Lady's Island Lake. A specific action plan should be developed for the lake and so forth. That will have to involve a number of stakeholders. It will not just be agricultural stakeholders, but, obviously, they will be key. The Minister of State responsible for biodiversity should lead on this in conjunction with the Ministers for agriculture and climate. We are engaged in a range of projects across the country. This will have to be done on cross-departmental basis.

The climate and biodiversity dimensions have to be central to this in order to get improvements. There will have to be a whole-of-government approach because there may be a need for financial intervention in order to enable any plan to have impact on the ground. I know it is not the Deputy's intention to apportion blame, but he is clearly saying that farming is creating the nutrient run-off into the lake. Clearly, the solution is going to have to involve neighbouring farmers. I will engage with the Minister of State, Christopher O'Sullivan, the Minister, Martin Heydon, and the Minister, Darragh O'Brien, and ask them to come together to coming up with a plan to deal with this issue. We have seen plans on other issues - whether it was the Corncrake LIFE project or the white-tailed eagles - in respect of which we engaged with stakeholders and which were - I will not say floundering - in difficulty early on. Through engagement with the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, we got good responses and this resulted in the success and progression of those projects. There are other projects farmers have co-operated with - the Burren being a very good example - where we have also got good outcomes.

It is possible to get a good outcome, but an action plan involving all stakeholders has to be developed with a view to getting the outcome the Deputy correctly identified. It is not satisfactory to have ecological devastation at such an important site for a range of reasons.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his comments, but this time we have to do something different. We need political leadership and accountability. The damage here has been building for four decades and the existing processes just have not worked. In place of a thriving ecosystem, we are going to end up with a toxic goo lagoon. If we fail to act, we do not have far to look to see what is next for Lady's Island Lake. Lough Neagh is already described as toxic due to the algal bloom it experiences each summer.

There are solutions, such as, perhaps, advancing a European innovation partnership scheme. Something similar was done nearby in Duncannon. That would create ways of rewarding farmers for changes they undertake to reduce nutrient run-off.

As my colleague, Senator Malcolm Noonan, said in the Oireachtas committee, unless the Department of agriculture is centrally involved and unless all the stakeholders play an active and collaborative role, this unique habitat will become a dead zone for nature. I do not think the Taoiseach wants that on his watch.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I certainly do not. Over the last number of years, I have taken a direct interest in the work of the NPWS and the biodiversity issue. We doubled the staff of the NPWS and we bought additional lands to transform into national parks. We now have a biodiversity officer in every local authority. When he was Minister of State, Senator Malcolm Noonan, did a lot of good work and I worked very well with him on this agenda.

I hear what the Deputy is saying regarding the centrality of the Department of agriculture but if it was left on its own, we might not get what he is looking for, and I do not mean that in an disparaging way as other stakeholders have to be involved as well. The EPA clearly has a role in terms of water quality and so on. The Minister of State in the Department of housing with responsibility for biodiversity has a clear role as well to pull this together. I will personally intervene to see if we can get an action plan put together to start the process of reversing this.