Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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71. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the steps she is taking to retain early years educators in the sector, and therefore retain capacity; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [32746/25]

Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to ask the Minister about our early years educators. Staff turnover rates are high, particularly for private providers. We also have issues with capacity and retaining our early years educators. Of course, pay is a key issue. What areas is the Minister looking at to ensure we retain our early years educators in order to build on the capacity that is very much needed?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge that many early learning and childcare services report recruitment and retention challenges. In general, these challenges are not caused by insufficient supply of staff, but by high levels of turnover. Data from the sector profile survey shows a turnover rate of 24.5% in 2023, with almost one third of the turnover rate due to staff moving from one provider to another. I note that new data on the number of educators or practitioners working in the sector increased by 10% between 2023 and 2024.

Turnover is linked to pay and working conditions. However, while the Government is the primary funder of the sector, the State is not an employer of staff. Neither I nor my Department set pay or working conditions. The joint labour committee process is the mechanism by which employer and employee representatives can negotiate minimum pay rates, which are set down in law through employment regulation orders. Outcomes from the joint labour committee process are supported by the Government through core funding, which has seen its allocation increase from €259 million in year 1 to €350 million for the coming year 2025 to 2026. An additional €45 million has been ring-fenced to support employers in meeting the costs of further increases to the minimum rates of pay. This allocation is conditional on updated employment regulation orders.

I recently met joint labour committee representatives - in fact, I met them again today - to acknowledge their important role and to emphasise the Government’s expectation that any newly negotiated orders fully utilise the ring-fenced the funding available. My officials also continue to discuss issues of recruitment and retention with stakeholders through a subgroup of the early learning and childcare stakeholder forum. While the general consensus of the group is that pay is the single biggest issue, the group continues to identify other actions, including: a student fast-track process; the assessment of unfinished qualifications; and an agreement to promote careers in the sector.

Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. We have known for quite some time that pay is the single biggest issue. It has become and continues to be the main issue. While the work of the joint labour committee continues, we are now well into June and it unfortunately appears there is a wide gap between one side of the table and the other on the joint labour committee. SIPTU is seeking that providers must pay a minimum of €15 per hour to our early years educators. As this process continues, I am concerned that we do not appear to be getting anywhere.

A total of €45 million is on the table. In fairness to the Minister, while she has, of course, said she is independent of the process, which I respect, she has been direct in saying that the money needs to be spent to build and ensure the highest increase possible. I welcome the Minister’s meeting today. Does she see any further progress on the issue of pay?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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There is agreement across the House that money ring-fenced for staff should go to staff. I acknowledge that has been Deputy Kerrane’s personal view from the beginning. I met joint labour committee representatives today and I have met them previously. While they are entirely independent of me, it is important I take every opportunity, as the Deputy has, to articulate that money on the table is specifically ring-fenced for staff. It should go directly to them.

While I referenced it briefly earlier, I wish to mention that although pay is a key component, other important issues were identified by the group as well. For example, the student fast-track process was an important issue for the group where students who have reached a particular level, such as level 5, could be acknowledged for that and work as they moved to levels 7 and 8.

Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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I would like to see the figures from previous JLCs on the amount of money brought forward by the Government in previous budgets and the amount of money that was actually spent on whatever the increase was. We will find quite a gap there, particularly when we look at the last increase and the length of time it took to achieve that. It was little or nothing in real terms.

Regarding the JLC itself, we all recognise that pay is a major issue. Once this JLC has concluded its work, which I hope will be sooner rather than later, and ahead of September, would the Minister be willing to look at the process again and perhaps conduct a review of how pay is determined? While I appreciate entirely that the Government and the State do not pay the wages, it is providing significant funds from taxpayer money. A total of €45 million is being provided in the latest round, as just one example. Based on the process and the Minister's meetings and engagements on this issue, on which she has been forceful, does she think it would be worthwhile after this next increase to look at the process in place?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I will absolutely know a lot when this process concludes. I have always been clear that there are two elements to this, namely, the providers and the employees. One cannot work without the other. They must work together in the best interests of the children we serve. The mechanism we have currently, as the Deputy has outlined, is the joint labour committee. We have all made our views clear as to how we would like to see that process work, while respecting the independence of the committee.

I will be in a better position to judge everything once all of this process is concluded. I want the best possible outcome. I have been clear in that regard. I hope that will be delivered. Our core aim is to ensure that we have viable costs for parents and a sufficiency of places and that staff who work in the sector are suitably recompensed.