Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The so-called rent reform plan the Government announced yesterday is a shambles The Taoiseach is literally all over the place, confused by his own back-of-the-envelope proposal and unclear as to what he is saying. There is one thing that is clear - the Government's plan will push up rents even further. It is only a question of when renters will be hit. The Government will allow landlords themselves to set a market rate for rent. After 1 March and throughout the course of next year tens of thousands of renters will face higher rents. Some will pay full market rent at the start of their tenancy and all will face big hikes at the end of their tenancies. Tenants entering new build properties will be hit with market-level rents on day one and, with rent increases tied to inflation thereafter, they are set to see their rents rise sharply. Fianna Fáil rolls the dice on housing once again.

The Government does all of this with no guarantee that it will lead to any significant increase in supply. The Housing Agency is very clear on that score. Even in the most optimistic of scenarios, the Government's plan will see landlords of high-end apartments in exclusive pockets of Dublin charging eye-watering rents but in the rest of Dublin and in every other county there will be no extra supply but there will be much higher rents. In fact, there is a very real danger the Government's plan will actually tighten supply as landlords will now delay putting properties back on the market in order to charge a higher rent from next March. The Government says it will extend the rent protection to the 20% of renters it has left behind over a number of years. These are renters in rural areas, who have been hit by double digit rent increases already. If the Government does not act to extend that protection immediately, these renters will be put at immediate risk of big rent hikes as landlords move to get ahead of the Government's changes.

Then we come to the confusion the Taoiseach sowed in this Chamber yesterday. It was clear from the statement issued by the Minister, Deputy Browne, at lunchtime that the Government's plan is to allow all landlords to apply full market rent at the end of six-year tenancies. This clearly meant people staying in an existing property and signing a new tenancy agreement, along with people moving into a property for the first time. Then the Taoiseach was caught out, so throughout the afternoon he scrambled around, denying this was the case and then, sometime in the evening, somebody slipped off and, bizarrely, changed the press release on the Department website to have a new wording - a wording that changes nothing.

This is not about protecting renters at all. This is about making renters carry the can for the Government's failure in housing. The Government will allow record rents to be hiked up in the pitiful hope that big investors will save the day. It is the same casino behaviour that created this mess in the first place. Tá plean an Rialtais maidir le cíos imithe in abar idir neamhréiteach agus neamhinniúlacht. Is é an t-aon rud atá cinnte ná go rachaidh cíos in airde gan aon chinnteacht go dtiocfaidh feabhas ar an soláthar.

Why is the Government delaying extending the rental protection until March? Why is it allowing landlords to set the market rate rents themselves? What analysis has the Government done? Can the Taoiseach tell us how many renters will be hit by massive rent increases from 1 March under the Government's plan?

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I dtús báire, ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Níl aon bhaint ag an méid atá ráite aici leis an bhfírinne. Níl suim ag an Teachta leis an bhfírinne, áfach. Is é atá i gceist ag an Teachta, agus Páirtí Shinn Féin, ná a bheith i gcoinne gach aon chinneadh a dhéanann an Rialtas, gan aon pholasaí soiléir dá chuid féin a chur os comhar an phobail. Is é sin bun agus barr an méid atá ráite ag an Teachta McDonald. Ní aontaím léi.

Just because the Deputy keeps on saying untruths does not make them truth. The fundamental reality is that existing tenants will stay and their rents will be capped at 2%. That is clear. Any new tenancies after 1 March 2026, after this legislation, will be capped by the CPI. That is also very clear. The Deputy has sought to sow confusion. Of course, she condemned this over the weekend, before she even saw the detail of the plan. During the past couple of months, she declared RPZs would be eliminated. She did not expect this package of measures.

There comes a stage when Deputy McDonald needs to start proposing solutions, because supply is the bottom line here. This is a balanced package of measures which protects existing tenants but gives policy certainty to them and to investment and investors, which is required to dramatically increase the supply of housing and apartments in the country, to get from 30,000 to 50,000 per annum for a sustained period of time. I see nothing in anything the Deputy has proposed that would go anywhere near trying to attempt to increase supply of apartments and supply of housing.

I listened to her this morning and it was all bluff and bluster on "Morning Ireland".

Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has some nerve to say that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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She is back to the vulture funds-----

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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What about tenants in situ, or the tenant in situ scheme? Where has that money gone?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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She then said this morning that if the Government is intent on using institutional funds, it is on the wrong track. Well, go back a few weeks and just replay what Deputy Eoin Ó Broin said on Virgin TV where he acknowledged-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Try answering my questions.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and recognised a role for institutional funds in the Irish market.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Who do I believe here? Do I believe Deputy McDonald this morning? Do I believe Deputy Ó Broin? Do they believe there is a role for institutional funds? Or, when it is into politics, they just change the term and call them "vulture funds", because it plays well, or they think it plays well.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is very ignorant.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is just clichéd bingo announcements. That is all they are at. I heard the Deputy this morning.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, Deputies.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was just bluff and bluster. The bottom line here is-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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You have not answered any of our questions.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have answered the questions.

If we look at what Threshold said, for example, it said it is very clear that "the changes announced today will - with well-designed legislation and effective enforcement – this will be a huge jump forward in providing long-term stability to renters." It welcomed the national extension of rent pressure zones. We will be bringing in legislation to deal with that specifically as quickly as we can. In the next week or two, I would like legislation before Government on the specific point of extending them, which is something Deputy McDonald should welcome and not just attack again and try to pick holes in something. It is a good measure and is something people called for.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is a dog's dinner-like.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am sorry Deputy Mac Lochlainn, but your leader is quite capable of asking questions and of answering. Please refrain-----

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I am just giving commentary.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Threshold is saying that for the first time, private renters could have secure occupancy of their home for a set period, something that does not currently exist, and Deputies opposite are attacking all of this. They are making absolutely false assertions, because all they are interested in is the politics of this and how they can exploit the housing situation to get electoral or political gain for the party.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach. Your time is up. I call Deputy McDonald.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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They have no solutions and no proposals, in terms of the supply side of this.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Homelessness is increasing.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Housing crisis.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The only person who has managed to sow confusion is the Taoiseach, ably assisted by the Minister, Deputy Browne. I am very glad he was listening so attentively to me this morning. I hope he heard my appeal again to him to stop screwing things up. It is almost as if the Taoiseach deliberately set out repeatedly to make a mess of things. Deputy Martin is the Taoiseach, accountable to the House. I have put questions to him. They are reasonable and fair questions that renters all across the State are asking. Here is his fair and balanced package. For the investors - yes, cuckoos and vultures - what do they get? They get the opportunity for a higher rent yield. That is the big attraction into the market to boost supply, as the Taoiseach would have it. Of course, they pay not one cent in tax on their rent roll. That is nice, is it not? That is for them. Then what for the renter?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The only certainty is that rents will rise. When the Taoiseach takes to his feet he might answer the questions I asked originally in respect of rolling out protections and what analysis has been done in respect of rents going up.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy. Your time is up. You are now way over time. I call the Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Housing Agency provides the platform for the review that the Government has acted on. We have acted. We have taken decisions. I am not hanging around here. I am not interested in Deputy McDonald's bluff and bluster because it will contribute nothing to housing supply in this country. That is the bottom line. I did listen to Deputy McDonald this morning and she said to me it was back of the envelope stuff.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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It is back of the envelope stuff.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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What does Deputy McDonald say? She says Government wants to take the shackles off the big funds, which is a great sound bite. She says she has asked the Government to stop screwing things up. When asked about Sinn Féin's alternative plan, it is to enable the builders to just get out and build. What a fantastic plan. What a really detailed plan that is really going to get things going, is it not? Then, of course, she condemns the vultures and cuckoos but, meanwhile, Deputy Ó Broin will meet with them and will recognise the role of institutional investors in his attempts to be super-cerebral in discussing these issues. However, Deputy McDonald will come in and go on about cuckoos and vulture funds because it plays well to what she considers to be her base.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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How embarrassing.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Suí síos. An embarrassment.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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She then finishes by saying, here is my solution. She says, "For the love of God, get the builders building. That is my plan."

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach. I call Deputy Ivana Bacik.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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It is 20 years since we saw distressing footage of conditions at Leas Cross nursing home. Here we are again. The scenes on last Thursday's "RTÉ Investigates" programme were deeply disturbing. Aoife Hegarty's team exposed horrifying practices in nursing homes run by one of Ireland's largest private care providers. I commend the RTÉ team and the whistleblower, Claire Doyle, on exposing those abuses. We saw awful footage of older people being pushed around, forgotten, abandoned and calling for help from their beds or after a fall. Often, residents were left to soil themselves and there were shortages of basic equipment like hoists, sanitary wipes and gloves. We saw staff making makeshift bedsheets out of incontinence pads.

Older people are being demeaned, degraded and dehumanised in some private nursing homes, and profiteering is at the root of this. Some 80% of Irish nursing homes are private or voluntary and shockingly, just ten investment funds own one third of all nursing home beds in the system. An influx of investment funds in recent years has left our country with the most privatised system of care in the EU. Big corporations are profiteering from, in some cases, negligent care of older people who are mistreated in private homes, so that companies can make a quick buck.

The residents of Leas Cross, of Beneavin Manor and of many so-called care facilities have, over the years, paid a high price for State tolerance of an unacceptable status quo. If we are honest, can we truly say we are shocked? I acknowledge some things have changed since Leas Cross. HIQA was set up to set the standards, to inspect and, indeed, to shut down non-compliant nursing homes, public and private. What we know now is that HIQA is clearly failing in this duty.

When families are reviewing a particular nursing home for their loved ones, the first thing they do is check the HIQA report. That is what the family of Audeon Guy did. Families, in relying on information from HIQA, may unwittingly be putting their relatives in harms way. Clearly HIQA practice is unfit for purpose and must be reviewed urgently. The Minister for Health needs to explain why it is HIQA that is now being called upon to conduct the so-called independent review of all nursing homes. That is particularly strange after it glaringly failed to identify abusive practices at Beneavin that some journalists and a carer with a camera found.

This was not an isolated incident. We are all hearing this. I am aware of one nursing home employee who has not received so much as an acknowledgment of her complaint to HIQA, five months after she submitted the complaint. Another person who contacted me was told by HIQA that it would not investigate the care received by her now-deceased mother and the ombudsman would not investigate. It was a substantial complaint. Among other things, there was an unforgivable failure to provide her mother with necessity medications.

We need to urgently review the system. Has the Taoiseach confidence in HIQA's ability to review nursing home care in Ireland and how can families have any level of trust in HIQA reports having seen what we saw last week?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy very much for raising this issue. It is a very serious and shocking situation. The revelations on "RTÉ Investigates", in particular, must have been deeply traumatic for families with loved ones in nursing homes generally but particularly in the two nursing homes that were covered by "RTÉ Investigates". It is particularly concerning that the regulatory authority did not capture or unearth this, particularly in one nursing home, in terms of its reviews. HIQA, when it was established, came out of Quality and Fairness, the health strategy in 2002. I was involved in it at the time, setting it up on an interim basis. Prior to that, we did not have a quality authority in health. It has done a lot of impactful and effective work over the years, but this is deeply concerning. There has to be a review by HIQA itself too, in terms of what went wrong here and in terms of not revealing what was subsequently revealed.

I pay tribute to the "RTÉ Investigates" team on this. Methodologies may have to change in relation to inspection. Penalties also have to be reviewed in terms of either fines or, indeed, closure. Closure creates its own issues in respect of alternative locations but there have to be real consequences for horrific treatment of senior citizens in this manner. That is something I believe in. The family of Audeon Guy have spoken eloquently and very distressingly on their family situation and their acceptance of and belief in the impartiality of the HIQA reports as they checked the record of given homes following the inspection reports.

On our overall system, there is the public service sector side of it in which we invested significantly in the last number of years but a lot of that investment was in modernising and refurbishing district hospitals which had been on a list for quite a long time in terms of the necessity for refurbishment. The HSE works with certain homes in providing HSE beds, particularly for dementia cases where extra and additional supports are required. Home care has also expanded enormously. In the last four years alone we have doubled provision in home care from about €400 million to €800 million and consequently added additional hours and so on. I will come back on this later.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I listened carefully to the answer but I did not hear anything substantive about what the Taoiseach and the Government propose to do following on from those shocking revelations. It is not just about HIQA failures. This is also about ensuring older persons have a voice. There is a blueprint there. We have a Law Reform Commission report from last year about setting up an adult safeguarding framework. Safeguarding Ireland last week again called on the Government to initiate a process which would lead to the enactment of this necessary legislation which would challenge that culture of systemic ageism. We have to call it out. It is that culture that has enabled the growth of this appalling for-profit system that has facilitated the carrying out of abuse on vulnerable older citizens. All of us are hearing from older persons who are so fearful now about their own futures and those of their relatives, given the lack of safeguards in the system. Will the Government adopt the process that Safeguarding Ireland and the Law Reform Commission have so clearly set out about adult safeguarding legislation and ensuring older persons are protected?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, the Government has made that clear. We will be doing that. It is in the programme for Government. There is a forthcoming national policy on adult safeguarding for the health and social care sector that will set out how existing protections will be strengthened. That will be brought to Government shortly-----

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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When?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and that will commit to the development of adult safeguarding legislation for the sector. We have included the health (adult safeguarding) Bill in our current legislative programme to facilitate this. On a more broader sense, we are looking at a combination. I am trying to be realistic here and respond meaningfully to what the Deputy has articulated. I do not disagree with a lot of what she said. However, there will be a necessity for increased public sector provision, for continuing private sector provision and increasingly more home care provision, a significant amount of which will be private. Regulation of both public and private will always be key here but I believe there should be a rebalancing with more public service provision, particularly in the context of more acute situations around dementia and so forth. We might get an opportunity to discuss this in greater detail later.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Renters are already in an incredibly stressful situation having seen their rents doubled over the last decade and the Government is now not helping the situation by sowing confusion. It did that yesterday. The launch, as regards the understanding of it and the contradictory messages coming out, was an absolute shambles. The Taoiseach is at it again today. He told the Dáil just a few minutes ago that new tenancies after March 2026 will be capped at CPI. There was no mention of a reset every six years. Is the reset every six years gone? The Minister of State, Deputy John Cummins, told "Drivetime" yesterday that in all new tenancies post March 2026, the landlord will be able to reset the rent to full market levels. Has the reset every six years been ditched or is it still in place? The Taoiseach did not mention it. He did not mention it yesterday either. He would not once mention his reset of six years.

Rents are already completely unaffordable. In Dublin 8, just down the road from here, studio apartments are being advertised at €2,495 per month. This is two and a half grand per month to live in one room, basically. This is the dystopian future for renters which this Government has envisaged. Instead of protecting renters, its big plan is to use them as sacrificial lambs and to bleed them dry. Incredibly, the Minister for housing, Deputy James Browne, claimed yesterday that rents would eventually come down but he could not tell us when this was going to happen. Before being put in charge of housing, the Minister was responsible for gambling. It now seems he is gambling with renters' future and betting against them.

As a smoke screen for cutting rent pressure zones, they will be extended across the country. By giving landlords a heads-up about this, the Government has now incentivised them to jack up rents substantially. Furthermore, any accommodation that frees up between now and March is likely to remain vacant in order that landlords can charge sky high rents at that time and make maximum profits. Does the Government have any plan to deal with the hoarding of rental properties that it is now incentivising by announcing these measures? Another huge concern is the impact these measures will have on homelessness, which is already at record levels. Private rental has been a key route out of homelessness for people. That route will now be cut off because struggling families will be unable to afford the new norm of extortionate rents for new tenancies. That will mean more and more children growing up for longer in emergency accommodation, without a home. The Taoiseach was positively triumphant yesterday announcing these measures. Does he now accept they are going to lead to huge rent increases for most renters and that these measures will increase hardship, poverty, evictions and homelessness for renters?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, I do not. Just because you use what I would call exaggerated language does not make it true.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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You are telling untruths, is it?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I repeat that the bottom line is that all existing tenants will not have their rents increased beyond 2%. No attempts by the Deputy to sow confusion will change that reality. The more fundamental point in his presentation is that he and his party do not believe in a role for the market.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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That is not true.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I listened to Deputy Hearne, his party spokesperson, say this.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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That is not true.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Hearne does not believe in a role for the market. He said this. That is his position.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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That is not true.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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When did I say that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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He said it plenty of times.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the bottom line.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputies.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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The Taoiseach is running down the clock.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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He has undermined-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach cannot just make stuff up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, I did not interrupt once.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy Doherty, it is not your question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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What is intriguing is-----

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I never said there was no role for the market. That is a lie.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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You have attacked and condemned institutional funds-----

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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That is a different thing from-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is distraction tactics.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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You have had your opportunity, Deputy, and now the Social Democrats-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ah come on. I know your-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You are the Taoiseach for God's sake. You cannot make things up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ah you can. Sure you make them up every day for God's sake.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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A Theachta, tá tú as ord.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Give us some more theatrics.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Go on out of that. Are you the leader of the Social Democrats now?

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Give us another scene of your theatrics.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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You are a good man for that yourself, in fairness.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me, Deputies.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South-Central, Fine Gael)
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You are well able to shout yourself.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You cannot make stuff up.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Will the Taoiseach answer the Social Democrat's question?

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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He would if they stopped interrupting.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Taoiseach will answer if everybody stops interrupting. The Deputy has a rebuttal. He should use it. Will the Taoiseach please continue?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy opposite has made assertions in his Leaders' Question and I am quite entitled to respond to them. The bottom line here is supply. There is nothing coming from him on supply. The Housing Commission recommended reform of the RPZ scheme. The Social Democrats welcomed the Housing Commission report at the time and attacked Government for the failure to respond to it. I remember it well in the Dáil. All of the Members did. The Minister then got the Housing Agency to do a review of the RPZs, which are coming to expire at the end of the year anyway. When we announced that review and I referenced a few things in February, all of the Deputies opposite jumped up and said I was eliminating RPZs, the rent pressure framework and so on. All of this was untrue. It was just polemics. It was hysterical hyperbole. That is all it was. There was no substance to it at all-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----because of course we have not got rid of RPZs. If anything, as Threshold has stated, we have significantly increased protection for renters while at the same time, in a balanced measure, we have created policy certainty for investment because we desperately needed more supply in the rental market. We clearly do if we are to get to 50,000 per annum. That is the piece the Deputy does not address at all. He has never addressed it-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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He is not the Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----bar an SSIA-type investment scheme which would take a couple of years before you had the requisite funds to invest in capital in housing.

The State is already investing capital in housing to the tune of €7 billion plus. I put the question yesterday.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you Taoiseach. Your time is up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We need about €20 billion in terms of investment, made up of private sector and public sector. Tell me how the Deputy proposes to get private sector investment into the apartment market.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you Taoiseach.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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The Taoiseach knows that we put forward proposals to bring extra financing into housing. His criticism is that it is going to take a couple of years but his party has had decades at this and it cannot get the situation right. If it takes a couple of years to get more financing into the system, it is absolutely worth it. The fact is that most renters are going to face huge rent increases. The Taoiseach will not even mention the six years. Most renters are going to be facing huge rent increases at the end of six years of a tenancy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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No. That is not true

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, Deputies.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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They are going to enter new tenancies and the Taoiseach will not even acknowledge that. He will not acknowledge that in what he is saying.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not true.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is true.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach should stop interrupting-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Taoiseach, you can come back in when he finishes.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Tell us how many renters-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I just said-----

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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What proportion of renters over the coming years will not face this reset to full market rents? Tell us that. Most are going to face that. When they end a tenancy, they are going to be in this new system where, effectively, the RPZ rent regulation is ripped up on them and they are going to face full market rents.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, all existing tenants will be capped at 2%.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Until-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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No-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, until-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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All existing tenants, when they stay in the tenancy, will be capped at 2%.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Until the tenancy ends.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, Deputies.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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In terms of any new builds or new apartment builds-----

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Or new tenancies-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----after March 2026, when the new legislation comes in, they will be capped-----

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Or new tenancies-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Please listen. The Deputy asked a question. All new apartments after March 2026 will be subject to a cap of the CPI, inflation. Then, six years beyond that, the landlord will be able to reset to market-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Increase the rent-----

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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Up to the gills-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Let me finish because Deputy O'Callaghan has done nothing on supply. The combination of that facility for new builds, which we do not have yet, by the way, and there are no tenants in them-----

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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And new tenants-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and the CPI gives the basis upon which we can bring investment back into the market to get more apartments built because supply, ultimately, is the way to moderate rents.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are not going to do it by rent freezes or by this, that or the other that the Deputy's party has been proposing for the past two to three years, which will only conspire-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Taoiseach, your time is up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----to reduce and suppress supply and allow rents to go up even higher.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy Gogarty.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is inaccurate information.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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I want to talk about something that is ongoing. It is not specific to today but it has been happening every single day and every single year since this State began, and anecdotally, it appears to be getting worse. I am talking about antisocial behaviour and, in particular, antisocial behaviour by those aged under 18. Young people are invariably good. We had a discussion a while back about the fact that only 2% of young people ever come before An Garda Síochána. However, a lot of our young people are now under threat from random violent assaults by gangs of 12- and 13-year-olds going around. I had parents come to me after a lad got a punch and his eye socket was damaged. It was just a random attack. Equally, I know of parents walking around in a park with a buggy when a gang of four youths came over, threw bricks and sticks at them and verbally abused them. If they happen to be from another country originally, racist tropes are thrown in as well, but it is abuse given to anyone. A gang of lads went into one of my local cafés, stole bottles, walked out brazenly and then came back in and threw the contents of the bottles at staff. This is happening every day. I am not talking about the stuff that requires four mountain bike gardaí from Operation Irene in an estate in my constituency, where fires are lit regularly, drug dealing takes place every day and somebody got attacked with a machete recently. That is high-level stuff that needs to be dealt with, true enough, but the lower level stuff is what puts people in peril walking around. Many times it is young people who are randomly attacked.

I want to talk about consequences. There were 15,813 referrals of 12- to 17-year-olds to the Garda youth diversion programme in 2023 and 15,790 in 2022, representing 10,000 and 8,400 offenders, respectively. They are the ones who reach the threshold to get an antisocial behaviour warning or an antisocial behaviour order, ASBO, and to be put onto a Garda programme.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Could the Deputy repeat those figures, please?

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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There were 15,813 referrals of 12- to 17-year-olds to the Garda youth diversion programme in 2023. They are the ones who end up getting into the system but I am more concerned about the ones, the hangers-on of the ring leaders, who should not get into the system in the first place. Are there any further plans for consequences? I raised the issue some months ago with the Tánaiste, Deputy Harris, of the need to put in place some sort of ban or restriction on social media for 11- to 13-year-olds because of the Andrew Tate-ificiation of young males in particular, who have no real role models in a more feminised primary school system. I have mentioned nitrous oxide canisters previously and the Taoiseach said he would look into action on that. What plans does the Government have to have consequences for actions? We know there are root causes and I have raised those root causes previously but if someone does something, where are the consequences?

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising what is a very real issue for many people in society, in terms of increased antisocial behaviour. We need both approaches. We need consistently and constantly to deal with the source and the evolution of this, including in school programmes. A lot is being done in schools actually. I visit schools a lot. I was in one recently where there was tremendous inclusivity. The school and the children themselves were working on a cultural committee involving different nationalities and so on. It was very heartwarming to see. In many cases the schools are well ahead of the rest of society.

In the adolescent and teenage years, there is a heightened degree of antisocial behaviour, which sometimes manifests itself in significant violence and attacks on people and the creation of a sense of insecurity as people walk in public parks or on public streets. There are consequences in the use of antisocial behaviour orders. The deployment of body-worn cameras for gardaí will help to observe stuff. The community safety partnerships and their introduction is important, as are the community safety plans for every area. The expansion of youth justice and youth diversion measures is also important but we have to do more on that, including developing more youth programmes for young people for whom the mainstream school system is not responding or supporting them in order to keep them within the conventional system. We have Youthreach and many other programmes, but a renewed effort is required to deal with this. The fact that the youth portfolio is now in the Department of education will help in creating a proper continuum from education to youth services, which we had previously.

Area partnerships are very important to restore a community's sense of ownership of these issues. Again, some of those area partnerships over the last decade or so went into decline. I have witnessed in the north-east inner-city initiative very significant progress being made. I do not think we can just deal with it with consequences alone, although there should be consequences. We need to consistently look at what kind of effective and impactful consequences would make a difference.

We brought in laws, as the Deputy knows, to tackle the antisocial use of scramblers and quad bikes and all of that. We have given additional powers to gardaí but the Deputy is talking about something that is below the level of knife crime and so on. He is talking about general antisocial and intimidatory behaviour, attacks and so on. The line between-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Taoiseach, your time is up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The line between community engagement and moving into the youth juvenile space is a difficult enough one to crack.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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As the Taoiseach said, the schools are doing a great job. It is mainly female teachers in primary schools, and they are the ones who are getting misogynistic abuse at sixth-class level. We have had different debates about that. The Taoiseach mentioned the community safety partnerships. I wish they would hurry up and get them set up because there is a deficit there, including in communities that are not designated as disadvantaged but have areas of disadvantage within them. They need to be widespread to cover that area.

I am a big believer in early years education because, as the HighScope Perry Preschool Project proves, every €1 invested gives a €17 return. We need to tackle the causes but, equally, the parents of a child who has been attacked or a pregnant lady, for example, who has been attacked will want to know what the consequences are. Sometimes these guys are parading themselves on social media and there could be 11 or 12 incidents before anything happens. There needs to be tougher, on-the-spot type of stuff, whether it is curfews, seizing scooters, seizing PlayStations or fining their parents. We need to add that into the mix so that they know there are first-hand repercussions rather than waiting a year to get through the system.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is a fair presentation. I will talk to the Minister for justice, reflecting on what the Deputy said. There is an absence of consequences within that space before formally referring people to the juvenile justice system - which we are reluctant to do, to give young people a chance - and, on the other hand, ensuring people cannot just behave with abandon and no consequences. I take the Deputy's point but this needs to be thought through systemically. It is one thing to draw up a list of potential consequences but there is then implementation, follow-through and all of that. However, I take his point. I will talk to the Minister for justice in this regard and reflect on what the Deputy said. I will ask the Minister to talk to him about it.