Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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7. To ask the Minister for Finance if he has considered tax policy measures to reduce the cost of electricity relative to fossil fuels; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28216/25]

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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As the Minister knows, households are paying a staggering €350, or 30%, more than the European average on their energy bills.

During the election last November, the Government claimed it was going to cut energy costs to bring relief to households in a cost-of-living crisis. Instead, it is going to rip away supports. The Minister himself said that energy payments could not become the norm. Does he believe that Ireland's extortionate energy costs are normal? That is my first question to him.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. As I said in response to questions from his colleague, I, and everybody in this Government, is well aware of what higher energy costs mean for all sectors of our society. The electricity and gas retail markets in Ireland operate within a regulatory regime that comes from within Europe. These markets are commercial and liberalised. They aim to be competitive and they are overseen by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities. At the moment, the Government is considering, insofar as we can, regulatory decisions that could add to the cost of energy within our country.

Regarding taxation, households are currently exempt from the electricity tax while businesses per €1 per unit or megawatt hour for business and non-business use. In addition to the relief for electricity for household use, there is also a relief from taxation for electricity generated from renewable sources. In most cases, this is claimed at source by the supplier. This is intended to accelerate the decarbonisation of our grid and bring down the price of electricity for the consumer. Recently, the Government approved an extension of the 9% VAT rate currently applied to gas and electricity until 31 October 2025 at a cost of €85 million. The programme for Government is clear in recognising that we will consider and then take further decisions in this area to see what we can do to deal with the cost of energy. However, I need to caution against using money we might not have available in the future to pay for measures our country will see as becoming permanent. To many, this is a tough argument to make but it is one that is important to make at the moment.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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During the winter in particular, I am contacted in the constituency office by people who feel that the situation is out of control. These are people who are paying their children's allowance against their rent and are forced to chose between heating, eating and paying their mortgage. The transition to renewables, which the Government is pushing, should not mean people are paying extortionate energy bills. The Government's approach, which the Minister has referred to as accelerating decarbonisation, places a disproportionate share of the burden for transition on households through the PSO levy. Rather than trying to bring the price of electricity down, the Government is continuing to push prices upwards by adding more costs. In other countries, like Germany, progressive general taxation is used to reduce the cost of electricity alongside efforts to redistribute the PSO levy fairly by making the larger energy users, such as data centres, pay a fair share. That could make a real difference to ordinary people. The Minister said that the Government's approach would accelerate the decarbonisation. I do not believe that is the case. It is unlikely because, for people on low incomes, it is a double punishment. It is not a just transition.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Am I hearing the sands shifting in Sinn Féin's policy on climate again? The Deputy refers to the Government pushing renewables. Does he not think renewables should be playing a larger role in our energy sector? I would appreciate in the exchange we have if he could clarify that issue. I accept that the cost of energy and the way in which our energy market is structured are causing issues and costs for households and businesses. We are looking at regulatory decisions to see if we can change it in any way. Overall, however, the decarbonisation of our energy sector is one of the biggest prospects we have to try to reduce our carbon emissions and give us a greener, healthier and, in the very long run, a more competitive Ireland. What we need to do, and will do, is look at measures that can help with that transition, but I do not believe it is responsible to spend money we may not have in the future.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Of course we should be pushing towards renewable energy but it is the way that the PSO levy is disproportionately put on low- and middle-income earners that is the problem. It is unfair and unlikely to accelerate decarbonisation in the households we go to where they have solid fuel at the front of their houses and are reliant on it.

Regarding electricity, the additional costs on household bills should instead be placed on the larger emitters. I do not see how the Minister can possibly disagree with that. Regarding gas and home heating oil, I refer to halting the carbon tax increases and reversing the past two years of carbon taxes. The Minister believes these taxes will accelerate decarbonisation. I believe they will not with ordinary poorer people who are reliant on solid fuels.

I am asking the Government to address energy affordability by reviewing the way it is tackling it, including the PSO levy and the network charges. I hope that will have the support of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and, if they turn up, the regional Independents, if they continue to support the Government.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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All the Deputies on the Government benches here today visit homes that use solid fuels. We all represent people in homes that are struggling with the higher cost of energy and who know the cost of living is high. We understand that as well.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Can they afford to change to renewables?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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What we are aiming to do is display a greater degree of honesty to them than Deputy Daly is. Is it Sinn Féin policy now - I am really struggling to understand this - that it wants a refund of the last two years of the carbon tax increases? Is that its policy?

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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We believe there should not be any more carbon taxes on the people. The Minister is naive if he thinks those people-----

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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These are questions, not a debate. Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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They cannot afford to push to renewable energy.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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People will be getting more and more confused by the Sinn Féin policy here today. The Deputy is saying there should not be any more carbon taxes and there should be a refund of what happened in the past while at the same time Sinn Féin Deputies come to the House every day of the week and want more retrofitting, more cycleways and more measures to help with fuel poverty.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Aire. Tá d'am caite.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The changes we make in carbon tax help pay for that.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister think the larger users are paying their fair share?

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Can we just have one person talking at a time, one person standing at a time and keep to our time? That would be fantastic. Tá dhá cheist le tógail le chéile in ainm an Teachta Emer Currie.