Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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84. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will provide an update on reform of the ethics in public office legislation, given that the review of the statutory framework was completed in December 2022; the reason for the delay in publishing the heads of a Bill; if he expects this Bill to be introduced this year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28132/25]

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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132. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform for an update on the progress of revised ethics legislation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28125/25]

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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136. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform further to Parliamentary Question No. 99 of 13 February 2025, for an update on the plans to review and strengthen the ethics in public office legislation, following the completion of the review of the statutory framework in December 2022; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27769/25]

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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An update on the ethics in public office legislation was promised in the programme for Government in 2020. It never happened. The Minister's Department concluded its review in December 2022. We were promised heads of a Bill but have never seen them. It is now two and a half years later. When will those heads of Bill be published?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 84, 132 and 136 together.

I thank the Deputy and the other Deputies who have also raised this matter. As Deputy O'Callaghan will be aware, we are committed in the programme for Government to updating the ethics in public office legislation. This follows a wide-ranging review of the legislative framework for ethics in public life that my Department undertook during the term of the previous Government, the report and findings of which were published in February 2023.

The report's recommendations include that the legislative framework for ethics should be underpinned by a set of integrity principles, that disclosure requirements should be strengthened to improve transparency and that consideration should be given to whether the regime should encompass more officeholders. The report also recommends a strengthening of the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO. Certain more recent recommendations around ethics will also need to be considered in the context of the reform agenda.

The House will understand that this is a complex area that requires consideration before a scheme is brought forward. There are broader operational and policy considerations I want to explore and get right as the new Minister in the Department. I am conscious that this represents an opportunity to make real, meaningful and positive change to our current regime.

I want to ensure that happens in a coherent way from a policy perspective and that it is also user-friendly from an operational perspective. I am examining all the outstanding policy issues, including those I have outlined, and I am engaging with officials to determine the most appropriate way forward to meet the commitment in the programme for Government. My ultimate goal is to create a fit-for-purpose and easy to understand ethical framework that contributes to the quality, efficacy and transparency of our system and positively builds on the strength of our existing framework.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister for his reply but we are going backwards here. The review was concluded by his Department well over two years ago. We should have seen a heads of Bill at this stage. His predecessor, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, who I know the Minister works closely with, told this House a year ago that "we are nearly done in respect of the drafting of the heads of the Bill and I hope to be in a position to bring that to Government shortly.". A year ago, the Minister's predecessor was saying this work was almost finished and was almost ready to go to Government. The Minister is now saying two years after the review done by his Department and five years after the promise in the previous programme for Government that this would be done, he has more work to do and more consideration to give.

There are issues here that have been going on since 2018. Every single year in its annual report, SIPO highlights it does have the powers that it needs to do its job effectively. Year after year passes without this getting addressed. To give one example, in 2023 it identified 42 public bodies that are outside of its remit because the regulations have not been updated since 2018. This is long overdue. Can the Minister give us a commitment that he will do this urgently?

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I have to agree with the previous speaker on this. I looked back to April. This is not a priority. In its 2009 annual report, SIPO "recommends that the Department of Finance should draft new legislation to be based on best practice for dealing with conflicts of interests and ... consolidate". Fast forward to the 2021 annual report, SIPO states "For a number of years, the Commission has called for a comprehensive review of the existing ethics framework...in annual reports" and so on. It says it over and over.

It is not good enough for the Minister to come in today and say it is complex and he is still looking at it. The review was completed more than two years ago. It took years to get the review. I am quoting from an annual report from 2009. It is now 2025. It is more than two years after the departmental review and the Minister has no heads of Bill for us, no date or no anything. There is an absolute failure to recognise what SIPO is telling us in terms of governance, oversight and its lack of power to act.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank both of the Deputies. I am in the Department a number of months and my commitment is to bring forward a general scheme but I want to make sure that, as I am advancing that, I examine the long history to this which has been referenced. The history has been too long. Deputy Connolly referenced 2009 and Deputy O'Callaghan referenced other time points. I want to bring forward a general scheme that can be examined by Members to try to strengthen the framework that is there. I am committed to doing that but I have to make sure I construct a scheme which responds to the need for a strengthened body underpinned by integrity principles and improves the transparency, which I have referenced. My commitment is to progress that. Deputy Connolly asked me about this in April and I am committed to working through that and to bringing forward a scheme. When I am in a position to give a specific date on when I can publish it, I will bring that to House. I am currently examining the respective policy considerations and the decision points that have to be made for a scheme and then it will be drafted and published, as is the normal practice.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister. However, I do not understand how his predecessor, the current Minister for Finance, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, who is perfectly competent and able, was in a position to tell the Dáil a year ago that the heads of Bill was almost ready to be published and he was hoping to bring it to Government very shortly. How was it possible for Deputy Donohoe to do that a year ago only for the Minister to now come into the House to say there is a whole load of other work that needs to be done?

The review by his Department was concluded more than two years ago. Some of these issues have been going on for years. We have 42 public bodies that are not covered by the ethics legislation because the regulations have not been updated in years. How can the Minister stand over that? How can he stand over 42 public bodies not covered by the ethics legislation? Deputy Chambers is the Minister with responsibility for this. Will he not deal with this urgently and how is it that he is way behind where his colleague, Deputy Donohoe, was a year ago?

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I will stick with what SIPO tells us. I will go back to 2019 and to the submission to public consultation on the regulatory impact analysis. It states that SIPO's "mandate includes oversight of the electoral Act". It then goes on to outline some of the challenges for SIPO in this role and the lack of independence of SIPO in terms of budgets, staffing and reporting to the Oireachtas. It states that SIPO does not have its own Vote, unlike in other jurisdictions and that a dedicated Vote would allow it more independence, which is vital, and autonomy. It outlines the "burdensome framework for reporting" and that seven statutory reports are required under the electoral Act alone.

Four of the six members of the SIPO Commission are ex officio with other commitments, which limits the time they have to focus on SIPO. SIPO's secretarial staff also have responsibility for other operations within SIPO's remit. There is a need for a definition of "political purposes" and "third parties". On expenditure limits, there are no limits on expenditure for Seanad elections or referenda, unlike other elections. There are inconsistent disclosure requirements for political parties and so on. It has little power by way of investigation. Local elections are treated differently. That is only a small sample of the inadequacies of the existing legislation. It is the opposite to what democracy needs.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Connolly listed a broad range of policy areas which have to be considered in the context of a scheme which will be brought forward-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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They were outlined by SIPO in 2019.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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-----and that is what we are doing. That is what we will do. I will publish a scheme in light of that. That is what I am committed to doing. The programme for Government is clear on the need to update the ethics in public office legislation and my commitment will be to bring forward a general scheme. When it is ready, I will publish it and it will be for all Members to feed into how we can ensure that it is a strengthened piece of legislation. Obviously, there will be a pre-legislative scrutiny process around that. That is what I am working through at the moment and I am committed to doing that.