Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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I move:

That leave be granted to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to amend the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 to ban the hunting of a fox or foxes; and to provide for related matters.

I understand we have an unprecedented situation where a Deputy will be opposing this Bill, but I will come back to it later. With fox hunting banned in England, Scotland and Wales, Ireland has become an outlier. In fact, it is ironic that the colonial powers that introduced fox hunting into this country have banned it and yet it is still retained here as a relic. In 1998, a code of conduct was introduced for fox hunting packs, approved by the Minister. It has become a farcical situation. It eliminated none of the cruelty that makes fox hunting one of Ireland's most inhumane activities. Foxes are still dug out of the ground and tracked by trained terriers. Foxes are still chased by packs of dogs, sometimes for hours, and torn apart when caught. If a domestic animal were treated in this way, there would be an outcry.

A Red C poll found that 77% of the population want fox hunting banned. By the way, this is not an urban versus rural issue, as some may try to claim, because 74% of people in rural areas also thought fox hunting should be banned. It is not a major activity undertaken by a lot of people in rural areas. Part of the rural opposition comes from farmers themselves who have hunts going over their lands without permission, causing them problems and, according to one person, causing them €6,000 in damage. Country pursuits that could replace fox hunting would include drag hunting, for example. This is something that could be done.

My Bill aims to amend the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013, which has an exemption for hunting in section 12. It states that a person should not do anything to "cause or permit anything to be done to an animal that causes unnecessary suffering ... or endanger[s] the health or welfare of ... an animal" or is carried out recklessly. All those things obviously apply to fox hunting. We now need to add into this section that fox hunting is an illegal, unlawful activity. This is what this legislation aims to do. It also brings in trail hunting, snaring and the trapping of foxes because these have proved to be loopholes in the UK.

I believe fox hunting is a cruel and inhumane so-called blood sport. It clearly causes unnecessary suffering.

Packs of dogs chasing after a fox relentlessly is obviously a very stressful and unnatural situation.

Fox hunting has been banned for over two decades in Britain. I fail to understand why anyone would defend it here. The fox is a mammal native to Ireland and is part of Ireland's biodiversity. Fox hunting is of no benefit to anybody. Foxes are the last wild dog in Ireland and they should be protected. We need to put it up to TDs to stand up and do that.

According to experts, foxes should live to the age of ten but many only live to age of two. We should be protecting foxes from hunting which is only one of the threats to them. Many arguments are put up about fox hunting and they are spurious. For example, it is said that we need to keep down the fox population. When fox hunting was banned in Britain, it had no impact on the fox population. The number of foxes did not suddenly increase at all so it is a spurious argument. Foxes naturally control their own environment and they also control rodent and rabbit populations which cost farmers a lot of money as well. They can actually save farmers money, in particular arable farmers who suffer a lot from the rabbit population.

Hunting in the UK has not led, as has been said, to a massive increase in foxes, neither would shooting be any less, which is often something that is put forward. Both are actually carried out together.

I will finish on the proposal to oppose this motion. It is actually unprecedented for a TD to stand up and try to prevent a Bill from reaching Second Stage for debate. I have introduced Bills on repeal which people did not agree with; they were always allowed to go to Second Stage. I have introduced many controversial things, as have other TDs, and I have never stopped to Bill from going to Second Stage. I have been told to put on the big-girl pants and allow debate, but here we have a stifling of the freedom of debate and freedom of speech. I ask TDs and the Government to reject the call to stop the Bill progressing.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Is the Bill opposed?

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I oppose it.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I call Deputy Michael Collins followed by Deputy Danny Healy Rae. They have two and a half minutes each.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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People are being criticised for their views here in Dáil Éireann. We are fully entitled to put forward views different from those Deputy Coppinger has put forward. We will be opposing the Animal Health and Welfare (Ban on Fox Hunting) Bill. We need to get a few facts right here. Foxes are classified as a pest species. Whether we agree or disagree, that is the fact. There are 150,000 to 200,000 foxes at the moment and they cause serious concern to many farmers and have done so through the years. We need to have some kind of control because the next thing we will be in here seeing if we can protect the rat, the mouse or whatever. Nobody wants to protect the human beings; that is the problem from what I can see here.

We have very serious concerns. There is regulation at the moment with potential punishments for animal welfare violations. On the timing of the hunts, the fines are substantial for wrongdoing, reaching €10,000 on summary conviction or €250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years if there is conviction on indictment. There are also fixed-charge penalties for lesser offences.

Foxes pose huge threats to farmers. If Deputy Coppinger had been brought up in a rural area, she would understand that. How many times have I heard down through the years that a fox had broken into a hen yard and destroyed every hen in the yard?

They are also a threat to our native birds and young lambs. We need to have controls for foxes and hares. We should not be afraid to say that in this House. Independent Ireland will certainly be opposing the Bill going forward. If we can at some stage put in further protections, we should do that at some stage, but we have to control pests. I certainly will be one of those opposing this. Down through the years people have been treated as if they are being unfair to animals when I do not always agree that is the case. There certainly are controls and people have respect for certain areas. Independent Ireland is opposing this.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am glad to have the opportunity to oppose this proposal by Deputy Coppinger. She said she was amazed that anyone would stand up and talk against this proposal. I have to tell you, a Cheann Comhairle, that from every corner of Kerry, people have rung and sent emails and all kinds of messages to ensure that we stop this at the start. All of us living in rural parts of Ireland know the damage that the fox has done and is doing. The numbers have increased to a massive amount altogether. One of my sons had lambs. He and all the farmers around him have tried their very best. They had practically a third of their lambs taken this year. A man at the top of the Pike Hill came to me the other day with his story. He had 12 hens and when he went out one evening, there was only one there; the fox took 11 of them.

I do not know if Deputy Coppinger really knows the consequences of her Bill and the effect of the foxes. The numbers have increased dramatically. They are all over the place. They are coming into towns and villages. They are in and out of bins and they are everywhere. They have completely taken over the place. Members of respectable gun clubs who do the fox hunting do the farmers a favour. They have legally held guns and do it all above board. They have been doing it traditionally over the years and they operate to the highest standard. I salute those people and I stand with him here today.

I ask the Government Members to consider what is happening here because many of them are depending on farmers for a lot of their votes around the country and especially the hill farmers down in south Kerry who depend on lambs for their profits after feeding them for the year. I am certainly opposing this Bill and I will call for a vote.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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May I have a quick word?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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A quick word.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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As is normally the case with Private Members' Business, the Bill will not be opposed on First Stage. That is the process. If and when the Bill is listed for Second Stage, like all other Private Members' business the Government will then consider the matter at that point.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am calling a vote now.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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You are not calling any vote. If I am going to call a vote, I will let you know.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time on Wednesday.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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So much for freedom of speech.