Dáil debates
Thursday, 22 May 2025
Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions
5:15 am
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome Cara Darmody and her father, Mark, to the Visitors Gallery. Cara, as we all know, has just finished her 50-hour protest outside the Dáil. You are an incredible young woman and we are all so proud of you. We know we have a fight on our hands to stop Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael from watering down or removing children's right to access an assessment of need in a timely manner. I believe I can speak for all of the combined Opposition when I say that we will be with you every step of the way in this fight. We will keep going until every child has an assessment of need and the services and supports he or she needs to flourish and thrive. No child will be left behind. Cara, you are an absolute inspiration to all of us and we are so proud of you.
Tá scannal an ospidéil náisiúnta ag dul ar aghaidh agus ar aghaidh. Tá costas an togra anois tar éis pléasctha ó €650 milliún go €2.2 billiún agus níl sé déanta fós. Inniu, tuigimid go bhfuil moill eile ar an togra seo leis an 15ú dáta críochnaithe nua le cúig bliana anuas.
The scandal of the national children's hospital has now become an epic saga. A project that was supposed to cost the State €650 million has now ballooned into a project costing €2.2 billion and we do not even know if it will finish at that. The Tánaiste's Minister for Health visited the project last February and said that it was 99% complete. She said we were within touching distance. However, today we have learned that we are far from within touching distance and that it is going to be pushed back again. Not for the first or second time but for the 15th time in the last five years, the Government has missed its target. We are told today that this hospital will open in June 2026 at the very earliest. The CEO of the hospital board does not even have confidence in that date. The Tánaiste has broken his election promise when he said it would be delivered in June. Does he really expect the public to have any greater faith in this date than in any one of the other 15 dates that he and his Government Ministers have announced?
The Tánaiste personally signed the contract for the national children's hospital without even having a finalised plan in place. It was a case of build as you go. That is why BAM has had the State over a barrel for the last eight years. The Government is now blaming the construction company. It is no surprise to anybody on this side that developers are going to squeeze out as much profit as they can, but competent Ministers are supposed to protect the public purse. When the Tánaiste signed that contract, he declared open season on the public finances, showing complete incompetence. Anybody who has signed a contract, whether to build a house or just to replace a kitchen, will know that you need a plan in place. Even when this was getting out of control and costs were ballooning, the Tánaiste had the chance to change course. BAM offered to withdraw from this contract. The Tánaiste had the chance to change but he did not take it. He had the chance to put a proper plan in place but he did not take it. He signed on the dotted line, despite having no obligation to do so, leaving us with a contract that is totally skewed in favour of the construction company.
We have heard before from the Tánaiste, and I am sure he might say it again, that lessons will be learned. Lessons cannot be learned unless people take responsibility. As the Minister who signed off on that contract, does the Tánaiste take responsibility? Does he admit that it was the wrong contract to sign? It is why BAM has had us over a barrel for eight years. Does he accept that he got it wrong? Will he tell us now when children will be treated in that hospital and how we can have any confidence in that date? Why have we missed this deadline 15 times? Will the Tánaiste also inform the Dáil how much this hospital will cost the public purse at the end of the day?
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will begin today by condemning the senseless antisemitic murder of Yaron and Sarah overnight. These were two young diplomats in Washington DC who were killed in the prime of their lives. They were a young couple, soon to be engaged. I think of them and their families, to whom I send our sympathies. I also think of all those present at the Jewish museum in Washington DC last night, who include one of our own young diplomats. Antisemitism is a disgusting, despicable and vile scourge and we should condemn it at each and every opportunity.
I join with Deputy Doherty in welcoming Cara back to the Gallery of the Dáil. I look forward to working with her. I assure her that there is no tribal division here between the Opposition and the Government. Everybody in this House wants to make progress on children's disability services, assessments of need and access to therapies. My colleagues the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, and the Minister, Deputy Foley, have the full support of the Government. I hope we can all work in a cross-party way to make the progress we really need to make in respect of children's disability services.
I thank Deputy Doherty for raising the issue of the national children's hospital. The reality is that the hospital is now almost complete from a construction point of view. It is well over 95% complete and the technical commissioning is now under way. We are moving towards a twin track, where Children's Health Ireland has early access to the hospital. It is not a question of waiting for every single last bit of construction to be completed. The commissioning work is able to start alongside it. That is a practical and appropriate thing to do so that we can get this hospital open and so that access can be granted on a phased basis as parts are fully completed. That is good. It is urgent. Children and parents need it. I am assured that the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, CHI and BAM are engaged on achieving this.
Let us not lose sight of the facts. Within the overall budget for this hospital, a budget that has not changed from the €2.2 billion the Deputy asked about earlier, two satellite centres are already open. These centres, at Tallaght hospital and Connolly Hospital, are part of that overall budget, the overall envelope for the children's hospital project. They are complete and open. The facility at Connolly Hospital has now hit a milestone with 100,000 children having been treated there. Sometimes when people speak of this project, you would swear nothing has happened. However, 100,000 children have already benefited from having the Connolly Hospital element alone open.
It is a world-class project of massive scale with an internal street the length of Grafton Street, 4 acres of open space and a massive increase in theatre capacity. It involves many of the things we discuss in this House with a view to making more progress on children's waiting times. It will have 22 operating theatres and procedure rooms and will provide every child and parent with a single en suite room. The days of parents having to sleep on hard floors at night as their children spend weeks, if not months, in hospital are coming to an end. The hospital will have 6,150 rooms and is located on 12 acres. This will be state of the art. I am pleased to say the hospital's elevated helipad is complete. This will be shared with St. James's Hospital and will offer rapid, safe access to key areas including critical care, theatres and the emergency department.
Everything the Deputy raises in this House, and that all of us in this House raise, demonstrates the necessity for this hospital. We know it cost more than originally intended. That is true. However, the Deputy has been covering finance for his party for a hell of a long time, so he will know that we have significantly changed the approach we take to the delivery of infrastructure. He will know of changes we have made only in recent weeks as to the role of the Department of public expenditure and reform. I guarantee the Deputy that when this hospital is open - the Committee of Public Accounts was told today that it is due to be completed by September and to start treating patients in 2026 - it will transform children's lives.
When we live in a country that is spending around €110 billion in an annual budget each and every year, investing just over €2 billion over a number of years for a hospital that will serve children well into the next century is a good and an appropriate thing to do. It will make a very significant difference to children's health services in this country.
5:25 am
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Sure we all know that. That is why we have been waiting years for the hospital to open. The Tánaiste was the Taoiseach for some of the last five years but before that he was the Minister for Health. The deadline for opening this hospital has been missed 15 times. That is crazy. The Tánaiste is right that children are waiting for this hospital. We know it is state-of-the-art. Not only has the deadline been missed 15 times, but this project has gone from €650 million up to €2.2 billion and we are not sure that this will be the final cost. I put it to the Tánaiste that he personally signed off on this contract. Accountability starts when the Tánaiste starts accepting responsibility. On the day that we have been told the project is delayed again, that it will not see patients until June 2026 at the earliest and that the CEO is saying he is not confident in that date, can the Tánaiste not at least acknowledge that he got this wrong, that he should not have signed this contract, and that the contract he signed, which was build-as-you-go, was a contract with no plan and that it was wrong? This is why we are in a situation where over the last five years the Government has missed its targets 15 times and this project has ballooned out of control.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The sheer hypocrisy of the Deputy. It was only in March of this year that the First Minister of Northern Ireland, who is the Deputy's party's vice president, said that she was delighted that £671 million would be spent on a state-of-the-art children's hospital at Belfast's Royal Victoria Hospital. Ladies and gentlemen, who was that contract with? Does anyone know? It was BAM: the same developer building the hospital in this jurisdiction.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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It is a different contract.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is pathetic-----
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I have more to say, please. The contract was announced and it was welcomed.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is pathetic-----
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Not only was the contract signed with BAM, do you know what happened then? It pulled out. As a result, Sinn Féin has further compounded the delays to the delivery of the project. Not only that but the children's hospital that it is delivering in Northern Ireland and that Sinn Féin's First Minister and vice president welcomed is more expensive per square metre than the children's hospital we are delivering in this jurisdiction.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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They are not my words; they are the words of the Parliamentary Budget Office in the Oireachtas. That office has looked at the hospital Sinn Féin is presiding over in the North and the hospital we are presiding over here and it found that Sinn Féin's is more expensive than the one we are delivering.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Fair play to you.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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You are very lucky you are not out of a job.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Get over yourselves with the absolute hypocrisy.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You will not even acknowledge that you made a balls of it.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. I call Deputy Ivana Bacik.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I join in welcoming Cara Darmody and her father Mark to the Public Gallery. I commend them and their family on their tireless and fierce advocacy for children who so desperately require additional services and supports. We will continue to work with them.
Ten years ago today, we the people of Ireland used our votes to make marriage equality a reality and to make grá the law. I had intended to raise this happy anniversary with the Tánaiste today and to speak about the policies we still need to implement to realise the equal rights of all LGBTQ+ people in Ireland but breaking news has overtaken us. Instead I must raise with the Tánaiste some shocking international news that has broken since we stood in this Chamber yesterday, recalling of course that as we face into the weekend there is still no sign of any international aid coming through for those children and infants in Gaza. Many thousands of them are facing starvation with dire warnings that 14,000 infants will die by the weekend without this aid.
Then overnight two young Israeli diplomats were murdered in cold blood outside the Jewish museum in Washington DC. I want to join in condemning outright their brutal murders. We know that an Irish diplomat was present and we are glad to hear they were unharmed. That news was accompanied by word that the Israel Defense Forces, IDF, had fired shots near an international delegation that included two Irish diplomats in Jenin. This must be condemned.
Then we come to the shocking revelation that Donald Trump's deportation flights are refuelling in Ireland at Shannon Airport. These are deportation flights that are illegal and taking place in violation of a US court order. In other words, an Irish airport is being used as an instrument to violate human rights. On Tuesday, a judge in Massachusetts ruled that the Trump Administration's attempt to deport migrants from a number of countries to South Sudan unquestionably violated an earlier court order. We understand that lawyers for seven of the men being deported were given little more than 24-hour's notice of their clients' expulsion. We understand that one of the planes in question, flight JNY588A, is due to refuel at Shannon Airport on its return journey from Sudan later today at about 9.30 p.m., according to flight logs. This is just the latest controversy about the use of Shannon Airport by the US Administration. We know the planes are landing at Shannon Airport en route to deliver bombs to Israel for use in that brutal bombardment of Gaza that has caused so much death and so much devastation and is the cause of many children's lives being ended. Yes, Irish Government Ministers have shown an astounding lack of curiosity about how our airspace and airports are being used by the US at any given time. The Tánaiste will be aware of the barrage of revelations about US flights refuelling at Shannon Airport in the past two years, but the State's exact position on this remains something of a mystery.
I have some very specific questions. Why is Ireland allowing US flights to land here en route to deliver destruction to Gaza? On the deportation point, was the Tánaiste aware that flights involving illegal deportation and disappearance of people from America are also landing here? How many of these flights have refuelled at Shannon Airport? Will Ireland continue to allow deportation flights to land where they are in violation of court orders? Will flight JNY588A be allowed to land this evening at Shannon Airport?
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I very much appreciate that events have overtaken us. First, I join with the Deputy in acknowledging that it is the tenth anniversary of marriage equality today. I acknowledge the pretty significant role the Deputy's party played in this. I enjoyed being in government with the Labour Party during that period when we put this referendum to the people of Ireland and became the first country in the world where, by popular democratic vote, we voted overwhelmingly to recognise that love is love. I recognise, as Deputy Bacik does, that on this day there is still more work to do. In fact, as we have seen in recent times progress can go backwards. It is very important in 2025 that we continue to speak up for our values and the values of the Irish people on equality and inclusion. I just wanted to acknowledge that too.
I thank the Deputy for her comments about our people, our diplomats, in Ramallah in our Palestinian mission. I was pleased to speak with the head of the Irish mission to Palestine yesterday, Feilim McLaughlin. He and his deputy were present in Jenin outside the refugee camp when the Israel Defense Forces appallingly fired what it described as warning shots in their direction, or over their heads specifically. This is the latest in a long line of intimidatory action by the Israel Defense Forces directed at diplomats or at our peacekeepers in Lebanon. We have conveyed our views in the strongest possible terms to Israel, as has the European Union, through the ambassador to Ireland.
Deputy Bacik raised a specific issue on the deportation flight landing in Shannon Airport. I am conscious that this is the Dáil and I want to provide accurate information as I have it. It is very much an evolving situation because I am aware of media reports that suggest a US flight on 21 May landed in Shannon. This was a civil aircraft and as such no diplomatic clearance would have been sought or would have been required. The regulation of civil aircraft and flights is a matter for the Department of Transport. This morning I spoke to the Minister for Transport in relation to this. I have also spoken to my Department. As the Deputy and the House will be aware, diplomatic clearance to overfly or land in the State is required from my Department for any military and state aircraft but not for civil aircraft. What is most important is that we now have full clarity on what may or may not have taken place. Officials from my Department are liaising with the Department of Transport, the Department of Justice, and the US authorities.
I am concerned about some of the aggressive migration policy we see being pursued in the United States of America. In the first instance, it is not for us to determine the legality of the US Administration's actions in relation to its courts. It is for the US Administration to answer. In the same way, if we had a deportation flight landing in another country, there would be a presumption that those on the flight were lawfully detained. I am trying to piece together here information that is coming at us, in the first instance through US media, and the decision of the US courts. I am very happy to keep in close contact with the Deputy and with this House because I recognise there is significant public interest and public concern in relation to this.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I thank the Tánaiste for providing a little more clarity. I appreciate it is an evolving situation. There is, however, a very specific question here about the particular flight I raised with the Tánaiste. We have seen that court order from the US. I appreciate that the Tánaiste will keep opposition parties updated as the situation evolves. We certainly require much greater clarity on the broader picture of US airplanes refuelling at Shannon Airport where they are en route to drop bombs or to provide bombs to Israel to drop in Gaza.
That is where we need clarity, which has been sadly lacking from the Government. We need that.
I also welcome the Tánaiste's positive comments this morning on the radio about our proposal, led by my colleague, Deputy Duncan Smith, that we will be bringing before the Dáil next week, calling on the Government to bring a resolution to the UN General Assembly to try to move things on, to ensure Israel can no longer act with impunity, to ensure the international community can seek to address the situation and to ensure that humanitarian aid reaches the desperate, starving people of Gaza. I welcome the Tánaiste's positive comments, which, by the way, were rather different from the Taoiseach's comments in this House yesterday, where he fell very far short of even agreeing to consider the proposal that the Labour Party is bringing forward. We are looking for support on a cross-party basis for this. We believe that the genocide in Gaza is an issue of such enormity that we have to ensure that we speak with one voice on this and that Ireland is leading on an international stage to ensure an end to the suffering of the people of Gaza.
5:35 am
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is right; this is genocidal activity. There are no two ways about it. The Israeli Government is rather upfront and blunt in outlining its military and political objectives for Gaza, which are abhorrent and clear breaches of international law. As I have been saying, and as I want to continue to say, the Irish people have, through their taxes, sent a significant amount of aid to the people of Palestine. That aid has been effectively, not to be flippant, parked in Jordan for the last four months. It is enough food for 6,000 Palestinian people. That is only a number of trucks out of the overall international contribution to this - all sitting there. There is only one reason and one reason alone that food cannot get in today, namely, the decision of the Israeli Government. We need to take more action. What I did say, and I mean it sincerely, is that I will engage constructively with the Labour Party on the proposals it is bringing forward - the earlier the better - as I know it will. I will also meet today with Senator Frances Black in terms of our own proposals to bring forward legislation regarding the occupied Palestinian territory. I hope to be in a position to update the Government and this House on that next week.
Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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Multiple community playgroups in County Donegal face closure because they have been affected by defective concrete. The cracks in the walls of these buildings have been growing at a concerning rate. Like many buildings in the county, there is only one option, which is full demolition. Unfortunately, however, under the current redress scheme for buildings affected by defective concrete blocks, these childcare facilities do not qualify for any funding for demolition and rebuild because they are not a home. Early childhood educators and parents of these playgroups are understandably very frustrated about the decision not to consider these buildings for the defective concrete remediation funding, especially given that Donegal County Council previously advised that the criteria for funding were being rewritten to include the likes of Raphoe and Letterkenny Community Playgroups, and that the housing authority would ensure the applications would fit within the framework. Despite these assurances, funding has not been made available to either of these playgroups.
I know playgroups have explored alternative funding options, including from Pobal and the Department of education, but no viable solution has been identified. Raphoe Community Playgroup has already committed to providing places for 56 children from September 2025 to July 2026, but without adequate support this facility will be forced to close. The loss of this vital community resource will have serious consequences for families, working parents and the wider community of Raphoe. Furthermore, its closure becomes unavoidable, which should not be the case. Funding for redundancy packages for the staff will need to be addressed. How are community playgroups such as that in Raphoe expected to navigate this situation? The current position it is in is an enormous strain on the playgroup, its staff and the families who depend on it. We are already dealing with a shortage of childcare facilities in County Donegal. This issue has not been addressed. It will be even harder for the people to access childcare in the future.
I am seeking clarity on this matter and a constructive discussion on the next step to ensure these essential services remain available. The Government has a responsibility with regard to childcare and needs to step in to help to maintain a fantastic service which has been an integral part of the Raphoe community for more than 40 years. Will the Government ensure that funding is allocated to community playgroups in County Donegal that are affected by defective concrete in order that they are not forced to close?
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Ward for raising this matter. I had the pleasure of meeting the Raphoe Community Playgroup during a relatively recent visit to Donegal. It keeps in touch with me directly, as I know it does with Oireachtas Members from Donegal. I see the Minister of State, Deputy McConalogue, in the Chamber as well. I know it also keeps in contact with the Taoiseach, the Minister for children and the children's ombudsman.
I appreciate the Deputy referred to more than the Raphoe Community Playgroup, but I may use it as an example of the broader issue because it is one with which I am a little bit more familiar. A building inspection was carried out in Raphoe in autumn 2023 which revealed that mica was present in the foundations of the building. Initially it was felt that the building would need underpinning rather than demolition, but by the end of February 2024 there had been significant further deterioration. There was a follow-up visit in March 2024, and the architect advised that the building would be unsafe to use past June, as the Deputy knows, and should be demolished. I commend the playgroup, by the way, because it has been extraordinarily proactive. I really have to acknowledge that because I have had quite a few dealings with it. It went on and identified a local building - I think it is called Volt House - to use temporarily for service provision, together with an existing prefab on its own site that is, thankfully, unaffected by mica. Renovations took place at both locations. I am pleased to say that we provided some sustainability funding from strand 1 to try to help with the rental costs up to May 2025. I believe Raphoe Community Playgroup is currently providing service to approximately 22 children from this site and to 14 children in the prefab. I know, it knows and it tells me that the Volt House site is suboptimal as a permanent solution because the service has to operate as a pack-away service. I can only imagine the huge challenge in putting the equipment into storage at the end of every day and back out again the next day.
The Deputy is right. In early 2025, Raphoe Community Playgroup did apply for building blocks capital funding. On 25 March, Pobal, which administers that, was included on an email from the Raphoe Community Playgroup seeking further support, further sustainability funding and a written strategy of options on a plan of support going forward. It also raised the fear that the playgroup could need to close. A meeting was set up on 9 April between that service, Donegal County Childcare Committee and Pobal. At the end of the meeting, Pobal clarified that no decisions had been made on the building grants capital grant application, although it clarified the eligibility. Following on from that meeting, a steering group, comprising Pobal, Donegal County Childcare Committee and the service is to be convened. Pobal is now looking at further sustainability support options, and will bring forward proposals. I believe Donegal County Childcare Committee is also exploring the potential cost of securing another building on behalf of the service. I am told that Pobal and the Donegal County Childcare Committee will support the board to decide on the strategy for the next 12 months. I know everybody in the Government wants to find a way forward. I am conscious that I have mentioned Raphoe, but it is not the only playgroup affected. The Minister, Deputy Foley, and all of us across government will work constructively with the Deputy to try to find a pathway forward.
Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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I thank the Tánaiste for engaging on this matter.
The reality is that the defective concrete crisis still leaves many behind. Many community buildings throughout Donegal have been excluded from the scheme and classed as commercial buildings, despite the fact that they are not-for-profit. The scheme must be extended to include these buildings. We are faced with losing community centres, childcare centres, leisure centres and adult further education centres. If we do not address these issues, our community centres in Donegal will tumble to the ground around us within the next five years. I ask the Tánaiste to look into extending this scheme to include these important community buildings in Donegal.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I take the Deputy's point and his position with regard to the broader mica scheme and whether it can be changed. The Deputy knows the programme for Government includes a commitment to review it. The Deputy may correct me if I am wrong, but my sense of it when I meet playgroups and others affected is that they just want a solution. They are understandably less fussed on how that solution comes about, but want to know that there is a way for them to continue to provide the very excellent service that they do. What I want to echo and repeat in this House today is that the Government is committed to working constructively with them and others to try to find that way forward, through the childcare committee and Pobal in the first instance. I assure the Deputy of my ongoing personal interest, that of the Minister, Deputy Foley, and that of the Government more widely.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I listened to the Tánaiste give Pearse Doherty an answer with regard to the national children's hospital. He was like an under-pressure estate agent furiously trying to sell an overpriced, extortionate and exorbitant hospital to an increasingly angry population at the moment. Nobody is arguing about the quality of the hospital; we are arguing about the price and the length of time it has taken to deliver. Leo Varadkar promised that it would be delivered by 2020 for €700 million, save for "an asteroid hitting the planet", yet it has ballooned to €2.2 billion. Today, five years after that initial opening date, there is still no confirmation about when it will open.
The opening date has been postponed 15 times and I and many people do not believe it will be open by 2027 at this rate. The national children's hospital is a monument to Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael waste and blame-shifting. Their figures are all over this extra spending of €1.5 billion. This money did not appear from nowhere. It has come from the pockets of hard-working Irish citizens and taxpayers. It is also not a victimless crime. In terms of opportunity costs, that €1.5 billion would have paid for more than 4,500 homes. It would have housed up to 18,000 people, which is more than the number of people currently homeless.
The Tánaiste, though, is the blame-shifting expert in this country. Simon "it wasn't me" Harris is what we have in front of us at the moment. When he had a debate with me on national television during the election regarding this issue, he stated clearly he did not sign this contract. In a statement to millions of people across the country, he said he was not responsible for the signature on that contract. Will the Tánaiste say whether he was lying to the people of Ireland on that day? Was he lying to the people watching that programme about whether he is responsible for this contract? This contract lacks an enormous amount of detail and this has allowed it to become a blank cheque for the contractor. It was designed to fail from the start. It has been acknowledged that the design was not actually complete when instructions were issued to BAM to begin phase B of the construction works in January 2019. This is an incredible situation on a project that is so large and expensive.
The Tánaiste said the buck stops with him. What does that sentence actually mean? If he were the senior executive of a company where a project overran its schedule by five years and cost €1.5 billion more than it should have, he simply would not be working there anymore. Yet he is the Tánaiste of this State. I believe he is in his job because he is insulated by Fianna Fáil and Independent TDs.
5:45 am
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Tóibín.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The problem is that he cannot enforce a culture of accountability to any other elements of the Civil Service at the moment because accountability and the Tánaiste are like oil and water.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Does Deputy Tóibín know why I am in my job? It is because we had an election and I got elected. Some 458,000 people gave their first preference votes to my party. An overwhelming majority of people gave votes to the parties and Independent Deputies who make up this Government. It is called a democracy. Aontú ran and got two seats. Congratulations. The Deputy does not lecture me and does not hire me, thank you very much. I answer to the people of Wicklow. They elected me with one of the highest votes in the country, so do not give me any of that sanctimonious nonsense. We all have a mandate in this House. We had a general election. The Deputy rehearsed his lines that he must practise in front of the mirror every morning. People went out and gave their verdict, and we are in the Government. We are getting on with the business, and yes-----
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----of course the buck stops with me. Does the Deputy know what else-----
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am going to tell the Deputy what it means. Calm down. He asked his question and I get an opportunity to answer it. It is how this place works. The Deputy asked a question about the children's hospital. I am responsible, of course. I am responsible for bringing the proposal to the Cabinet and for recommending that we proceed. The easiest thing to do in politics if you do not want to ever get into any challenging situation is to never make a decision. Does the Deputy know what else I am going to be responsible for, along with my colleagues in Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Independents, as well as those who served in government in the intervening period? We are going to be responsible for a world-class facility. We are going to be responsible for transforming children's healthcare. We are going to be responsible for making sure that parents who slept on cold, hard floors in Crumlin hospital last night can have bed facilities. We are going to be responsible for children having single ensuite rooms. We are going to be responsible for providing a health service that will have more theatres than ever before, will have open spaces for our children, will have improved medical outcomes and will tackle waiting lists. Nobody gets everything right in politics. Many lessons have been learned. Before the Deputy asks me what that means, I will tell him. We did the PwC report. It looked at all the options and recommended that continuing and proceeding was the best option. We have brought in several changes in how we deal with capital projects since then. We have also set up an infrastructure division in the Department of public expenditure and reform. It is very easy to sit over there and just have to stand up and correct everybody else's homework. It is much harder to come to work, roll up your sleeves and actually deliver for the people of this country.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Calling it correcting homework is an understatement. I think the Tánaiste knows that, given that we could literally spend a full day with a litany of examples of overspending and waste across the whole range of the delivery of public services. Inertia, waste and blame-shifting are the characteristics of this Government. These are serious issues. Why? It is not only because it is incinerating taxpayers' money, but because these are really important public services and infrastructure that are simply not materialising for the people who need them. The Committee of Public Accounts heard this morning that BAM is only 60% through the progress it had promised to be even at this late stage. The committee heard that all the levers were being pushed to make the contractor deliver on this project, but what levers are there? What mechanisms are in the contract the Tánaiste signed off on to force the contractor to deliver these projects within the timescale and the price? There are none. The fact that there are none is because the Tánaiste, as a very well-paid Minister for Health, did not ensure they were there.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputy to conclude.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The Tánaiste is directly responsible for the costs and for the fact that this infrastructure is not operating for the children who need it today.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will just point out first of all that the Deputy is very well paid himself. This country spends roughly €110 billion on its annual budget. We made a decision to invest €2.2 billion over several years in a project that will transform children's health and deliver a world-class children's hospital that will not just serve people for the lifetime of this Dáil, the next Dáil and the one after that. Long after we are all dead and buried and gone from this Earth, children will still be being served in that hospital. This is a major transformational investment decision. Yes, we all know it costs more than expected. We all know that. It is absolutely crystal clear. We have been through that not just in this election but in the one before that as well. Now it is about getting on with the job of actually transforming children's healthcare. Words like "incinerating money" and the like are inflammatory language that misses the point.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Pardon the pun. Not only is this children's hospital not the most expensive in the world, as the Deputy has said in the past, but it is not even the most expensive children's hospital being built on the island of Ireland per square metre according to the budget office of this Parliament.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Your excuse is they are worse. That is hardly an answer.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste without interruption please.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy can shout me down if he wants, but we are going to transform children's healthcare. The Deputy can keep correcting the homework and we will get on with doing the business.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Tánaiste. We now move to a question under Standing Order 38(a) from Deputy Gillian Toole.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is grand that Fine Gael laughs so much about this. People are sleeping on cold floors today because the Government has failed to deliver.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. Have respect for the Deputy about to speak-----
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I am glad they find it funny.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputies.