Ken O'Flynn (Cork North-Central, Independent Ireland Party)
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I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

acknowledges: — the vital role played by carers and front-line healthcare workers in supporting older people, people with disabilities, and those with high care needs within their homes and communities;

— the indispensable contribution of these workers in alleviating pressure on hospitals and long-term residential care facilities through early intervention, continuity of care, and dignified in-place support; and

— the rapidly increasing care needs of an ageing population and a growing number of individuals with complex medical or support requirements, which demands urgent planning and investment; notes that: — carers, both paid and unpaid, are under significant and unsustainable strain due to inconsistent access to services, limited financial supports, inadequate staffing levels, and regional disparities in care provision;

— the current structure of means testing for carer supports disincentivises care work, punishes low-income families, and fails to reflect the true economic contribution of carers to the health and social care system;

— in 2024, the Health Service Executive (HSE) increased home support hours by 7.4 per cent compared to 2023, yet as of December 2024, there were 5,556 individuals on waiting lists for home support, with rural areas experiencing higher demand;

— over 7,000 individuals receive disability home support, highlighting the service's reach beyond the elderly population;

— currently, there is no legal entitlement to home support services, access is based on assessed need and available resources;

— the expansion of home support services has been met with staffing shortages, particularly in rural areas, impacting the timely delivery of care;

— failure to provide timely and adequate home support services leads to increased numbers needing to avail of the Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Fair Deal);

— the average weekly Fair Deal rate has seen a 14.2 per cent increase in the last 2 years;

— HSE-operated nursing homes receive significantly higher funding under Fair Deal compared to private and voluntary homes, with an average of more than €744 per resident per week than their private counterparts; and

— with these financial challenges leading to many nursing homes closing, with the stakeholders citing financial viability as the cause; further notes that: — in assessing an applicant 's financial contribution to the Fair Deal scheme, the "three-year cap", which limits the contribution from certain assets, such as the family home or farm, to three years, does not apply to leased land as it is not considered "actively operated" by the owner or a qualifying family successor; and

— consequently, the entire value of the leased farmland remains subject to the 7.5 per cent annual charge for the duration of the individual's stay in a nursing home, potentially leading to substantial financial liabilities; calls on Government to: — abolish means testing for carers to ensure equitable access to financial support, recognising the essential social and economic value of care work;

— fully fund the projected increase in costs for staffing and regulatory compliance;

— end the pay disparity between Section 39 and Section 38 workers;

— provide funding for recruitment campaigns, training, Information and Communication Technology systems, and provision expansion;

— provide a fixed timeline for the rollout of the statutory home support scheme;

— recognise long-term leased land as "actively operated" for the purposes of the three-year cap;

— allow for the appointment of a broader range of family successors, accommodating diverse family structures;

— provide clear guidelines and support to farmers navigating the complexities of the scheme; and

— provide increased capital and operational grants to community hospitals, residential care homes, and day centres, including specific provision for dementia care and disability-friendly infrastructure.

There are few responsibilities more profound or revealing than how a nation treats the most vulnerable in its society. In our role as legislators, we often speak of policy in the abstract - budgets, frameworks, schemes, etc. Behind each one of those lines, however, lies something far more human - a person, a family, a home. Today, this motion brought by Independent Ireland is asking that this House do more than just debate figures. We are asking the Government to confront a crisis of care, a silent systemic failure unfolding daily in our homes and communities across this nation.

Let us begin by stating what we already know. Ireland's care infrastructure, from the unpaid family carer to the overworked home support staff and the underfunded nursing home, is at breaking point. Yet, somehow and in some way, it still functions. This is not because of efficient planning on the HSE's side or adequate funding, but because of the devotion, sacrifice and sheer moral strength of carers across this entire country who hold it all together. These carers, mostly women, often older and frequently isolated, step in where the State takes the step back. They do this not for recognition or reward but because it is simply the right thing to do. In doing so, they save this country billions of euro. What do they receive? They receive a patchwork of supports which are inconsistent and inadequate and simply unjust. We have means-testing systems that punish low-income families, a structural home support scheme that remains continuously and perpetually in development and a fair deal scheme that is neither fair nor dealing with the reality of modern Irish life.

Let us turn to the facts. More than 5,500 people are waiting for home support. Rural communities are disproportionately impacted. Carers are leaving the profession because wages are poor and the respect is non-existent. Let us consider this point. A HSE-run nursing home receives over €744 more per resident per week than a private or voluntary counterpart. This is not equity and not sustainable and it is a clear failure of policy. Perhaps most unjust of all is the treatment of leased farmlands under the fair deal scheme. Leased farmlands are not considered actively operated and the three-year cap does not apply. This means families face an ultimate financial burden simply because they choose to lease rather than sell the family farm. This is not just bureaucratic cruelty but a direct threat to the generations of family farming. I therefore ask this House to act with urgency.

This motion calls for clear responsibility and implementation of reform. We in Independent Ireland propose the abolition of the means test for carers, recognising that care is not a charity; it is an essential labour. We call for fully funded real cost of staffing, regulations and compliance. We call for an end to the pay disparity between the section 38 worker and the section 39 worker. We call for investment in recruitment, training, ICT systems and rural development, the establishing and fixing of the timeline of statutory home supports, the recognition of leased farmland being actively operated and the broadening of the definition of eligibility for family successor to reflect a modern Irish family. This is not a wish list, radical or utopian, but it is fair, affordable and most definitely necessary. Above all, it is right.

The success of those on the Government benches will not be measured in press releases, headlines or grandiose statements. It will be measured by whether this State has upheld its duty to the people who gave their trust to the Government and the Minister of State. In the realm of care, we are failing the test of trust. I ask Members on the Government benches not to consider their whip but to consider their consciences. I ask them to think of the carer who has had no break for five years, the farmer on the verge of losing the family home because of long-term costs or the elderly man or woman waiting alone for support that will never arrive. These people are not asking for special treatment but they are asking for fairness and to be seen. Independent Ireland has brought this motion not to divide this House but to unite it. We have brought the motion not to shame this Government, although there is shame to be had. We offer a path of redemption and reform. Let us build a care system worthy of the people this State serves. Let us honour those who sacrifice daily for the dignity of others. Let us not speak of value but let us act on values. Let the history of this House record that on this day in Dáil Éireann we chose justice and compassion for the carers of this country and we chose the common good.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I welcome this motion from Independent Ireland. It is very well written and if implemented would make a significant difference to carers and people who are cared for. Care is the most valuable service delivered in Ireland now. First and most significant, it is most valuable in human terms. The relationships we have with people are actually the most important things that exist. When we strip everything back and take all the superfluous stuff away, at the end of the day it is the relationships we have with our loved ones that are the most important issues. So many individuals and families have either a parent - a mother or father - or a child who they are struggling to care for or are struggling to find care for. Care, therefore, is enormously valuable in human terms. It means as well that those individuals can be brought on, developed and loved and cared for in comfort and without pain and suffering. This is enormously beneficial for society.

Care is also extremely valuable in financial terms. Billions of euro are saved in terms of the care given by loved ones to loved ones throughout Irish society. If the State were to take on the cost of delivering that care, it would put great pressure on the State's coffers. Undoubtedly, it would not do it as well or efficiently or with the same level of love. This is the second major aspect. According to a response we in Aontú received to a parliamentary question, right now in the hospital services there are 373 people who have been clinically discharged in hospitals in Ireland currently. This means they have gone through the hospital system and been looked after. All the work to be done by the doctors and nurses is complete. They cannot do any more for these individuals. These individuals are only in hospital because there is nowhere else for them to go. This is incredible. These people could leave hospital if they had a proper nursing home, a proper carer in their home or a step-down facility such as the national rehabilitation centre but, because these services are not provided or funded, these individuals are stuck in hospital. This means there is an enormous cost to the State because these individuals are stuck in hospital. It is also extremely difficult for these individuals because they are stuck in hospital. Additionally, practically the same number of people are stuck on trolleys outside hospitals and cannot get in because these beds are taken up with people who should be elsewhere. An enormous cost to the State results from that level of dysfunction and not providing the necessary care to individuals.

If carers were paid with money instead of platitudes, they would be the richest people in Ireland. We are going to see this Chamber fill up over the next two hours and Members are going to tip their caps and express enormous gratitude for the wonderful work of carers. Carers do not want platitudes any more, to be honest. Carers just want a proper salary and wage for the work they do. The problem I have is that typically the Government looks at carer's allowance as social welfare. I think this is at the root and the heart of the difficulty in Irish society. Carer's allowance is not social welfare.

It is a payment given to people for work of value given to other individuals. We need to delete the idea that carer's allowance is in some way social welfare from the heart of Government. Having a carer's allowance threshold in place is at the heart of the difficulty for so many individual families who are struggling to provide care for their families. The Government put it into the programme for Government that it would delete the threshold in the context of achieving this, but we have seen no meaningful step change on that. We have seen no meaningful pathway or progress on getting rid of that in completion. Yes, there have been changes in the threshold levels, but we need to delete that threshold and we need to do it fast.

Looking at care in its totality, I mentioned that it is one of the most valuable services delivered in the country, but it is the most devalued service in terms of Government approach. Whether it is those caring for children in care centres, early years education or State care, for example, or for older people in nursing homes, or carers delivering care in the home, it is incredible that they are probably the individuals who are paid least in the State. We are talking in the main about people who are paid just above the minimum wage. This encompasses individuals who are in early years education. Incredibly, the majority of them have gone through third-level education to achieve their qualifications, yet the pay is horrendously low. This Government even has a cap on the amount of money individual businesses can earn, and that has a knock-on effect on how much they can pay those particular individuals.

The situation regarding children in State care is absolutely shocking, one on which there will be tribunals of investigation in the future. There are currently children going missing or going into special emergency accommodation that is not properly regulated, with children in some cases being exploited by criminal gangs involved in sexual exploitation. Again, individuals working in that space are not paid what they should be paid.

As regards nursing homes, last year a raft of nursing homes closed throughout the country. Older people were taken out of nursing homes and put into new nursing homes just so they could find somewhere to live. Most people across the country who need to find a nursing home for an older person, such as a parent, are struggling to do so. Families looking after loved ones are not being paid properly.

As well as this, people who are working in caring for elderly people or people with disabilities get very little money for hours worked and have to travel from client to client off their own bat, paying for their own fuel during the day. The Government is basically ensuring there is continuous tightness in the labour market because it will not pay the proper wages.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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Independent Ireland brought this motion before the House in order for the Government to see common sense. Independent Ireland recently received the chairmanship of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight. The first thing the committee will look at is the cost of healthcare in this country and the value it gives for money, including the overspends. We will not discuss the National Children's Hospital because it is an open book, and a waste of funding.

We look at the carers in this country and the fact that the Government wants to means-test them. This motion advocates for the removal of the means test for carers allowance, ensuring that a full-time carer is supported financially and not penalised by their partner's income. That is common sense. They are providing care.

How many people do we know have given up their jobs because they cannot get carers in their area? My own family members are doing the same. My nieces and nephews have given up their own time and jobs to make sure that a loved one is cared for. They also have their own families, including young children whom they care for. By not providing a proper payment system for carers, we are actually creating a double impact because this affects the families’ ability to care for their own families, if they have young families.

As to the minimum respite guarantee, this motion proposes a legal entitlement to a minimum number of weeks of respite care each year for all carers, acknowledging the importance of breaks for carers. If you go to some place where a carer working 24-7 gets no break, what do they hit? They hit burnout. We have to ensure that carers also get a break. We get a break from the Dáil. Everyone else gets a break from their working life. No matter what sector people are working in, they have a guarantee of breaks. The problem is that sometimes carers feel that if they take their break, there will be no one left to care for the person they are caring for. We have to allow for this through respite.

This motion also calls for improvements to home support services, including ensuring adequate funding for home support hours and addressing workforce shortages.

I do not believe there is anyone in this House who values what carers can do. I mentioned the National Children’s Hospital and the overspending on hospitals. If there is a shortage of nurses in a hospital, where does the hospital get people to fill in? It uses agency staff. If we look at the cost of agency staff, they come to hospitals for a day here and a day there, which does not fix the problem. We should have full-time nurses in hospitals. To me, there should be very few agency staff. There should be full-time staff, not agency staff, because to make somebody better the nurse has to have a relationship with the person. Agency staff should only be brought in as a stop-gap, to fill in if there is no other option. At the moment, however, our health service is top heavy with agency staff who should actually be staff. If we look at the cost of employing an agency staff nurse and the cost of providing a carer in a person's own home, and we look at the difference in what that costs the State, it is absolutely bizarre. For the cost of an agency staff nurse, the Government could possibly employ three carers. This is what we are looking at.

On one side the health service is top-heavy with money in and on the other side the Government is penalising those who care for people well within their own home. People are going above and beyond to care for people in their own homes, and the Government is penalising them. Why can we not have something streamlined that allows us to look after the people who want to help? Carers are taking pay cuts to care for people. They are travelling across this country for an hour here and an hour there. They may be travelling 30 or 40 miles to care for people. They do not go to just one house. They go to people and they help them. In addition, what has been brought into the care system is a regulation that is stopping people who really want to help somebody they know needs extra help within the household. We need to protect that as well and allow for it. If we fund carers properly, we will have people who want to do that work.

Recognition and support for young carers is vital as they are the next generation. They see what people are doing. They see the care provided for their parents, grandparents and people who have disabilities and want to be cared for within their own home. They see that at first hand; they are getting the experience of watching other people do it. What they are actually watching is carers being penalised. They see there is no career choice for them to be carers and to help if they also want to have a life themselves and support a family. If they wish to go into the care sector, we have to make sure it is possible and that it covers all generations. We need to ensure the next generation can see that if they want to be a carer and do good, they can also have a life and will not be penalised for trying to help somebody.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to discuss fair and sustainable funding for carers, home support and the nursing homes support scheme. The Minister for Health is not opposing the motion.

I echo the motion in acknowledging the indispensable contributions of carers and front-line healthcare workers. We all know that they do phenomenal work. Their valuable work supports older people, people with disabilities and individuals with high care needs to live independently in their homes and communities. This Government is committed to ensuring that carers are supported and that investment in services for older people continues at a high level and grows to meet the changing need of our population.

The programme for Government sets out commitments that are ambitious but achievable. The Government recognises that the demographic challenges of our ageing population are already upon us. Investing heavily in services for older people means we can ensure that their later years can be lived in good health and in their communities for as long as possible. The Government is committed to supporting family carers. The Department of Social Protection provides a range of income supports for family carers. These include the carer's allowance, carer's benefit, carer's support grant and the domiciliary care allowance. The total value of payments in these schemes is estimated to be over €1.9 billion in 2025. Recognising the vital role of carers, the programme for Government sets out a timeline that commits to significantly increasing the income disregard for carer's allowance in each budget. This is being done with a view to gradually phasing out the means test during the lifetime of this Government.

I will make two quick points. Deputy Richard O'Donoghue made reference to supports for carers. Everyone here, as practising politicians, will be aware that the respite care grant will be paid automatically to people who are availing of carer's allowance, carer's benefit or the domiciliary care allowance on 5 June. People who are not in receipt of the carer's allowance can apply for the scheme. It is not means tested and is worth €2,000 this year. It is a contribution towards recognising the work that carers do. That is a practical measure I want to highlight.

In July this year, the income disregard for a single person will increase from €450 to €625 per week and from €900 to €1,150 per week for carers with a spouse or partner. That was part of budget 2025. I make reference to those two practical measures. The increase in the income disregard is being done with a view to gradually phasing out the means test during the lifetime of this Government. That measure is highlighted in the motion.

To provide further supports to people who provide care to their families, since September 2018 individuals in receipt of either a full or half-rate carer's allowance or carer's benefit are automatically eligible for a GP visit card. On foot of this measure, as of 1 January, 7,614 people in receipt of these supports have gained GP visit card eligibility. In addition to these supports, we will deliver on the programme for Government commitment to fully fund the carer's guarantee. At the moment, the carer's guarantee is supported by an annual investment of €2.6 million. It provides a standard package of supports to families in every region in tandem with the community and voluntary sector. The motion highlights regional disparities and one of the areas in which we are addressing that issue is the carer's guarantee. These supports include education and training, community carer supports, intensive and emergency supports, a freefone care line, psychosocial supports and the development and delivery of online supports for family carers. Increased funding for the carer's guarantee will also support the programme for Government commitment to increase support for carers by providing new training opportunities to support them in their caring.

Acknowledging the impact of caring for family members, €62 million in funding is provided annually for respite beds in older persons' services. Respite may be provided in the community within the person's own home, in HSE residential care settings, by agreement with voluntary organisation or by contracted private facilities. Since 2021, the home support emergency respite scheme has been funded by the HSE through Family Carers Ireland to provide emergency respite care. I know how important that is. We want to continually provide additionality in that area.

Deputies O'Flynn, O'Donoghue and others made reference to the role of women in caring. An additional €250,000 has been approved under the women's health fund for a project to support mid-life and older women family carers in collaboration with Family Carers Ireland. The project aims to research the impact of the gendered nature of family caring. Men also do this work but it is predominantly done by women. The project will also aim to develop effective responses to support women carers.

Through the HSE, investing in services for older people has been a national priority in recent years. There has been an increase of approximately €1 billion in funding for services for older people since 2020. This year has seen an increase of €350 million on the amount secured under budget 2024, bringing the total figure to €3 billion in budget 2025.

Improving access to home support is a priority for this Government. The budget secured for home support for older people in 2025 was the largest ever at circa €838 million to support 60,000 people. The budget has increased from just over €400 million in 2020 to €838 million. That increase is to support people to stay in their homes if they wish to do so and is in line with Sláintecare.

It is acknowledged that while progress is being made, disparities in accessing home support services remain. Many Deputies made reference to the fact that rural areas are particularly affected and there are ongoing recruitment challenges. In recognition of this, the strategic workforce advisory group on home carers and nursing home healthcare assistants was established in 2022. It set out to examine the challenges in front-line carer roles in the home support and long-term residential care sectors. The implementation of the group's 16 recommendations is well advanced. Reforms have been delivered as a result, including payment for travel time for home support providers and paying carers the national minimum wage at a minimum. In 2025, the delivery of longer-term recommendations will continue, including a survey of the experience of healthcare assistants, which I am due to launch shortly.

The development of the statutory home care scheme is a priority. It was in the previous programme for Government and has been reiterated in the current programme for Government. It will be a process. Delivery of this scheme requires effort across a range of areas. We must bring in regulation of home care providers. We are doing that through the health (amendment) (licensing of professional home support providers) Bill 2024. It will establish a licensing framework for professional home support services and provide for regulation by HIQA. Final drafting is under way, and I hope to present it to Cabinet in this quarter. The Government is committed to ensuring that home care is regulated and that there are quality standards in place against which services can be inspected. In doing so, everyone can be assured that their provider meets minimum standards of quality, safeguarding and governance.

The desired direction of travel is to provide care as close to one’s home as possible, which is in line with Sláintecare. That said, long-term residential care remains a crucial part of the continuum of care. The programme for Government commits to strengthening the nursing home sector by increasing funding for the nursing homes support scheme, also known as the fair deal scheme. Budget 2025 increased investment in the fair deal scheme by €67.6 million. The allocation for the scheme is now more than €1.2 billion annually.

The following is referenced in the motion. Recent legislative changes recognise the distinctive position of farming and agricultural land. The scope of those eligible to avail of reliefs under the nursing homes support scheme has been expanded, making the fair deal scheme more accessible for farm and business owners who require long-term residential care. As is mentioned in the motion, amendments to the definition of those eligible to be considered as a family successor have expanded to include cousins, great-nephews and great-nieces, and great-grandchildren.

The delivery of additional long-term residential care capacity in community nursing units and community hospitals is required to deliver on the programme for Government, Sláintecare and Project Ireland 2040 commitments. This Government’s commitment to delivering on this goal is demonstrated by the allocation of €4 million in budget 2025 to staff and operationalise an additional 615 community beds. Those are public beds. The new nursing home residential upgrade scheme, with a sanction of €10 million, will provide financial support to private and voluntary nursing homes to improve compliance with HIQA standards.

The programme for Government has a strong focus on community supports for older persons, including day centres and Meals on Wheels. An additional €10 million has been allocated for the community capital funding initiative. This will support improvements to service provision for HSE-funded Meals on Wheels and day centres.

The Government is committed to the area of dementia. Some €19 million in additional recurring funding has been allocated over the past five years for dementia services.

The programme for Government features eight specific commitments on dementia, the majority aiming to continue the expansion of dementia services nationwide. Given the commitments, and we take the trust in which the motion has been put forward, it is clear that the Government is dedicated to sustainable funding and supports, carers, home support and the nursing home support scheme. As I said earlier, the Minister for Health has proposed that the motion not be opposed.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Without carers, especially family carers, the burden on the State would be far greater. Over the years we have heard stories of people being placed inappropriately in geriatric wards or people who need more intensive care being sent home early because of insufficient spaces. Carers play a valuable role and unless we totally change our definition of what constitutes society in Ireland, it will never be every family for themselves and every individual without a family around them for themselves. We do see the value of supporting one another and this has a cost that has to be recognised. Many hours are put in for far less than the commercial cost of care, even allowing for the nature of the voluntary work and the ties that bind people caring for one another. That has to be said. Families will always care for each other whether or not they are getting any sort of contribution, but that is not the point. Families have a lot of pressure and they are the forgotten heroes.

An indispensable contribution is also made by care workers in alleviating pressure on hospitals and long-term residential care facilities. Carers, paid and unpaid, are under pressure. Those on lower incomes are disproportionately affected by the current system of means testing and some illogical decisions. I have one constituent, for example, who works 20 hours a week and is also a half-rate carer. When she went on maternity leave, her carer's allowance was cut because of the double rule, even though in the months following she would be caring for her relative and minding a child. One way or the other, the caring work continued, but she did feel the pressure as a result.

There is also the issue of insufficient respite hours, as Deputy Richard O'Donoghue has mentioned. The Minister of State referred to the €62 million allocation but when this is spread out, it does not really give enough support . The carers' guarantee in the programme for Government is, of course, welcome. I also welcome the fact the Government is supporting this overall motion but looking at this sector holistically, we are adding unnecessary costs and burdens to the State when targeted funding could probably save money overall. For example, because of inadequate funding to service providers, we have staffing shortages. This may affect the rural areas more but it is also an issue in urban areas, with insufficient hours allocated and sometimes home care visits rostered at hours totally unsuitable to the person receiving the care. Heavy traffic can also mean that an allocated hour is cut short by 15 to 20 minutes.

The HSE has increased its dependence on outsourced companies to provide valuable services. Some of these companies are more focused on the monetary aspect and I have found it difficult to engage on behalf of constituents to try to get a response when raising issues. Others provide a dedicated service and there is absolutely no questioning the commitment of the workers themselves. If the pay is poor, however, we will not get the level of staff required. It is worth focusing for a while on the differential between the section 38 organisations, funded by the HSE, where pay is subject to public service agreements and where the workers receive the same pay increases as other public sector employees, and the section 39 organisations, which receive grant funding from the HSE and whose employees are not considered public servants. They are not subject to public sector pay scales and their pay is negotiated between individual organisations and employees. Going back to the 2008 financial crisis, there were pay cuts across the sector, including in section 38 organisations. Section 39 staff, however, did not get the same level of pay restoration, which has led to a significant pay gap. There have been some efforts to address the pay gap but the section 39 organisations continue to struggle with attracting and retaining staff due to lower pay and conditions compared with the section 38 organisations. The pay disparity has led to reduced capacity to deliver services as section 39 organisations have often struggled to recruit and retain the skilled staff.

If we do not provide the means to support people in the home, there is often increased pressure on nursing homes, with increased numbers of people needing to avail of the nursing home support scheme, the fair deal, yet the HSE does not respond. Caregivers Ireland organised weekly protests outside Lucan Lodge in an effort to get the HSE to take over the facility as a going concern but this did not happen and families were forced to scramble for places. Unfortunately, a number residents passed away within weeks of being moved. That is not service.

This motion addresses the financial challenges leading to many nursing homes closing. I support this aspect, but we do need a full rethink and a proper cost-benefit analysis of the entire homecare system and support structures. It is saving the State money, money that we apparently do not have in the bigger scheme. We need to focus funding in the best way possible to support families caring for loved ones and ensure that the dedicated staff are able to continue working in the service. I very much welcome this debate and do hope the Government will respond, as well as accepting the Independent Ireland motion.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
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I welcome the motion and thank my colleagues in Independent Ireland for bringing it forward, which we in Aontú are delighted to support. I am happy to hear that the Government will not be opposing it. Every day in Ireland, carers, both paid and unpaid, provide tremendous service to their families, their communities and the State. The value they provide, both socially and economically, is significantly undervalued by the State. Over 5,000 people, in the main elderly people and the most vulnerable people in our society, are still waiting for home care help. This is absolutely an emergency situation because if they cannot get home care help, many of these elderly and vulnerable people will go into a full-time setting that will cost the State significantly more.

I welcome the programme for Government promises made in respect of the means test for carers. We have campaigned for this for some time. I want to be very clear that the Government must deliver on this. I got a phone call from a constituent weeks after the formation of the Government. This constituent had been canvassed by a Government representative. They phoned me and asked whether, now that the Government had been returned to office, the means test would be abolished. This is genuinely what the Government told the people of Ireland. I asked myself whether this was going to be another promise like the promises the Government gave to the scoliosis families or to the children and families with autism and the assessments of need crisis, and so many other promises. I put it to the Minister of State that this is a promise the Government has to keep. It would save the State so much money in the long term.

The motion quite rightly raises issues in regard to farm families and the fair deal scheme. The fair deal scheme is crippling farm families. It is costing farm families significantly. These are families who have built up their farms over generations. In the time I have left I want to focus on the cap. I attended a meeting of the Irish Farmers Association, IFA, recently. A farmer walked out of the meeting and he said he would be better off dying before he needed a nursing home if he wanted to give as much of his land as possible to his family. I know of one family who had satisfied all of the criteria for the fair deal scheme but because their son had left for Australia for six months, he was penalised and this family had no idea that would happen. The bureaucracy and the criteria need to be addressed. It is unfair that non-farming estates automatically qualify for the three-year cap but farm families do not. In many ways, those restrictions and criteria are incredibly onerous. Take succession, for example. The case I raised just a moment ago cost that family significantly. The issue of rented land also needs to be at looked at. These are key issues facing farm families and I believe they should not be penalised in such an unfair manner.

Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Independent Group for bringing forward this motion.

As someone who has worked as a carer in the disabilities sector for 18 years, I am acutely aware of the struggles facing this sector. This motion clearly sets out the vital role carers and front-line healthcare workers play in our society. The role they carry out every day across Ireland is a quiet but vital contribution to Irish society. They are the backbone of our care system, ensuring older people, people with disabilities or those with high-care needs are given the highest level of dignity possible and supported to live at home for as long as they wish.

As we are all aware, our hospitals are under pressure and we have a growing shortage of nursing home beds. It is family carers and home care assistants who are doing the lion's share of work in reducing pressures on our hospitals and nursing homes by supporting people to carry on living at home. For someone to remain living at home in the community they have known for possibly all their life, it makes an enormous difference to their health and well-being. By the end of February, almost 5,000 people were awaiting home support hours.

The Government needs to get serious about addressing this need because not only are those seeking home care being failed by the Government but family carers and other healthcare workers are too. These workers and family carers have been left to pick up the pieces as a result of Government failures despite their work saving the State €20 billion each year. Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Lowry Independents need to stop stalling, scrap the means test on carers and introduce a pay-related carer's benefit. It is time that social protection for people with disabilities and carers was increased.

Approximately 70% of carers are struggling to make ends meet. This is an absolute disgrace and a shame on the Government parties for standing idly by. Across the State, nursing homes are facing increasing stress, with closures due to financial or workforce pressures. Families are paying ridiculously high costs for private care and consecutive Governments have failed to properly invest in public care homes. The continuing notion from Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael that the private sector will provide for the shortcomings is only heaping more pressure on families across the State. We need to see significant investment by Government into public nursing homes. By 2030, there will be more than 1 million people aged 65 or older. By 2057, this number could nearly double. Consecutive Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Governments have failed to plan for this demographic shift. It is reckless carry-on.

The Government could quickly put into action measures that would make a meaningful difference. The Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, made a clear recommendation on pay for section 39 workers. This recommendation was accepted by the workers but the Government is stalling. We need to see this recommendation put into effect and ensure funding for section 39 organisations is guaranteed. If the Minister of State was serious about this role, he would have scrapped the means test. He said he would gradually phase it out over the lifetime of the Government. If home carers took that attitude, our hospitals and nursing homes, which are already seriously under pressure, would be bursting at the seams.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Let us remember the time during Covid when people went out to clap for our front-line healthcare workers. We were told we now recognised these workers and that things had changed. That seems like a lifetime ago. These are workers who enable people with high care needs to live with dignity at home. They are a vital support to our hospitals and nursing homes, yet carers, both paid and unpaid, are under significant and unsustainable strain due to inconsistent access to services, limited financial supports, inadequate staffing levels and regional disparities in care provision.

We also know from all our constituencies that nursing homes are overstretched. I am sure many of the Deputies in this Chamber have heard from nursing homes in their constituencies that are facing significant pressures and maybe even closure. There can also be a language element to this in the case of Gaeltacht areas and people being able to access that care through Irish.

Hard-pressed families are facing major costs to pay for loved ones who require long-term care but there has been next to no investment in public care homes. From what I can see, Sláintecare 2025 does not seem to have any proposed policy framework for long-term residential care, despite it being home to more than 32,000 people. When it comes to home care, too, there is a gaping hole in the Government's plans. It has failed to deliver the statutory home care scheme, a long-term commitment of the Government. We have proposed a scheme that would give a legal entitlement to health and social care, which would try to keep people in their homes. Again, there is a regional issue here with regard to people being able to access care from their homes, depending on how far and isolated they are from their local town or city.

I am concerned we are once again drifting towards a situation where the State is stepping back further from public provision, just like in housing, where investment funds and asset managers of all stripes have stepped in, or perhaps been incentivised to come in. We do not want to see the same here.

Donna McGettigan (Clare, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome this motion from Independent Ireland. As someone who was an unpaid carer for my husband before he passed, I have lived the reality of a system that does not value care work, whether it is done in the home, in our communities or in nursing homes. I know first hand the emotional and physical toll and the financial hardship carers face every single day. However, I would do it again because I felt it was the right thing for me to do.

In Sinn Féin, we believe in a fair, sustainable and compassionate model of care that enables people with high care needs to live with dignity at home. Right now, our care system is under enormous strain. Carers are being punished by a broken means-testing system that actively disincentivises people from taking on care roles. We call on the Government to abolish the means test for carers immediately. The Minister of State has said the Government is acting "with a view" to phasing this out over the lifetime of this Government. However, a view is not a guarantee.

Carers alleviate pressures in hospitals and long-term residential care facilities. They are under significant and unsustainable strain due to inconsistent access to services and limited financial supports. Rural areas, such as Clare, are experiencing higher demand, which means the failure to provide timely and adequate home support services leads to an increased number needing to avail of the fair deal system. We also need to end the pay disparity between section 39 and section 38 workers, as was also promised. Please do not let this be another broken promise.

Caring should never come at a cost to a person's financial security or health. The HSE-operated nursing homes received significantly higher funding under fair deal compared with private and voluntary homes. These financial challenges are leading to many nursing homes closing due to financial viability. They are also causing long-term waiting lists for those needing to avail of the system. The fair deal pricing review must be published, as per the commitment in the programme for Government.

It is time to fix the broken system and treat carers not as burdens but as the backbone of our health and social care system. When residential care becomes the appropriate setting, nursing homes need to be fully recognised and resourced.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We have a model of assistance for older people in their homes in Donegal that we are very proud of. It is a publicly delivered system in the main and we have not delegated it out to the private sector. Some tremendous people are working in those services in Donegal but they are being held back by the Government. Its pay and number strategy is basically a recruitment freeze.

The Government and HSE senior management are preventing the recruitment of home care assistance in Donegal and waiting lists are growing. These are older people who need essential care and their families need respite. The knock-on effect of this is that we also have a profound crisis in our major acute hospital, Letterkenny University Hospital. Beds in that hospital could be freed up every single week but because of the growing waiting list, we have a knock-on crisis. If there is a failure in recruiting the necessary numbers of home care assistants and a lack of beds in community hospitals, there will be a bottleneck at the emergency department and a crisis. A disaster zone is how it is regularly described.

I ask the Government to get rid of its pay and numbers strategy, to respect the publicly delivered model we have in Donegal and not to force us to privatise our home care system in Donegal.

That is a model we are proud of and we will fight the Government hard if it tries to do that.

Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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We are discussing funding for carers and I want to talk about one funding source, namely, the domiciliary care allowance. The domiciliary care allowance is payable in respect of a child under the age of 16 who has severe disability requiring continual care and attention. Over the past number of years I have noticed a pattern of people contacting me and coming to my office with the same problem with the domiciliary care allowance. A very high percentage of applicants seem to be turned down on their very first application only to get it on appeal. I submitted parliamentary questions to try to get to the bottom of this and see what information I could get back. I was informed that 33% of all first-time applications for the domiciliary care allowance were refused. Of this, 50% of the applicants appealed it. Out of the 2,146 appeals, only 823 were not successful. I will be honest with the Minister of State. I will recommend to any parent out there who has been turned down for the domiciliary care allowance to appeal because based on these figures, it is likely they will win. As one parent said to me, "You would think the Government wants us to go away after we are turned down the first time." Looking at these figures, I have to agree with parents when they come to me like that.

Another issue is the abolition of the means test for carers. That was one of the pre-election promises by Government. It is six months since that election and we have not seen any movement on that. We have to see movement on that; we cannot have another broken promise. We have to see carers recognised. We have to see the means test abolished and the Government parties have to stick to their pre-election promises because the people of Ireland simply will not forgive them if that is one of the promises the Government rolls back on.

Louis O'Hara (Galway East, Sinn Fein)
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Carers and front-line healthcare workers are the backbone of our care system, enabling people with high-care needs to live with dignity at home. Home care workers and family carers bring significant improvements to people’s health and well-being, reduce pressure on hospitals and deliver enormous savings for the health service but we know that many vulnerable people are not receiving the level of care that they need. It is extremely important that any person who requires care receives it in a timely manner, that they are supported to remain at home if that is their wish and that people are not left in unsafe situations, particularly when they are discharged from hospital or other medical settings.

I was recently contacted about an elderly constituent who has a tumour and had undergone five days of intensive chemotherapy in hospital. She was sent home without any supports despite her family’s concerns that they would not be able to care for her properly. This is a person with limited mobility and poor short-term memory, who cannot get out of bed or use the bathroom on her own. Her family expressed concern for her well-being and that they would not be able to meet her care needs, yet she was sent home without any home supports put in place. Unsurprisingly she ended up back in hospital only a couple of days later. It was a desperately unfair situation for that person and that family to be left in.

I also want to raise supports for carers. The Government parties gave a commitment during the general election to scrap the carer’s allowance means test. We will hold them to that commitment because the failure to adequately support carers up until now has been appalling. Their role has been undervalued and unrecognised and many are struggling to cope. The Government needs to follow through on that commitment and it needs to increase payments as well and finally begin to value the significant contribution that carers make.

Ann Graves (Dublin Fingal East, Sinn Fein)
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Carers and front-line health workers are the backbone of our care system. I want to acknowledge the hundreds of thousands of home carers in Ireland who are our unsung heroes. Carers enable people to care and to live independently in their own homes with dignity for as long as they can. This is hugely important for people's quality of life and it greatly reduces the pressure on our healthcare system. Home carers in Ireland are estimated to save the Government €20 million annually through caregiving work. This amount is equivalent to the cost of building numerous hospitals, MetroLinks, building projects and houses. More than 500,000 family carers in Ireland provide this essential service. Their unpaid work is crucial for the functioning of the healthcare system. This essential work should not be taken for granted. It should be respected, supported and adequately funded. Sinn Féin would abolish the carer's allowance means test, introduce a pay-related carer benefit and increase social protection supports for people with disabilities and carers. Abolishing the means test would have a positive and immediate benefit for people.

A constituent of mine has been refused carer's allowance because of the means test. Collette had a carer who went above and beyond the call of duty. She was Collette's lifeline to the outside world. Unfortunately, she was denied the carer's allowance in March this year. This has had a devastating effect on Collette who said:

I am legally blind and have Parkinson's disease. She was not just my carer; she went above and beyond to help me. She brought me to appointments, of which I have many, she did some housework and looked after my showers. She got me up and dressed and put on some make-up to make me feel good about myself daily and this has taken a toll on me the last couple of weeks without her help.

I appeal to the Minister of State and the Government, on behalf of all the Collettes out there, to please support this motion.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I thank all the carers of Ireland for all the great work that they do in performing essential work for our communities. They allow people to live at home in dignity, they help ensure better outcomes for those that they care for, they contribute considerably to people's health and well-being and they reduce the pressures on an already-stretched health service and care homes. In doing that, they make incredible savings to the taxpayer. Unfortunately, this is not acknowledged and the praise they receive in this House is not always matched in practice. As of last year, 5,556 individuals were on waiting lists for home support. While we have the thanks, we need to commit and we need to work to ensure the lives of carers are made better. A report from Family Carers Ireland last year laid bare the true impact. A total of 72% of home carers never receive respite. Nearly half of carers are paying for products or services privately that should be paid for publicly. A total of 69% are struggling financially while nearly a third were cutting back on essentials such as food and heat or missing mortgage payments and 76% reported moderate to severe loneliness. Some families cannot get carers and we wonder why when we look at the conditions they have to work under. The Minister of State needs to take action. It is within his power to address these failures. I want to acknowledge the work of my party and constituency colleague Senator Pauline Tully for having consistently brought forward concrete proposals in this regard. The carer's means test needs to be abolished and the pay and conditions of workers needs to be regulated to address, recruit, and retain workers in these care settings. We need to begin respecting, delivering and caring for our carers.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I commend all the home carers and the people who are providing a great service.

We need to have some truth around this situation because the Minister of State knows, going back to 2007 and 2008, we had an excellent home care service in this country. The HSE and the Minister for Health at the time went around and they chopped and chopped and privatised the service. They privatised home care, which is such a vital service. This was wrong. I have a file that thick at home since we worked at it in Mayo, because they started implementing the cuts on home care in the county. This is not the right way to provide home care.

I commend and thank those who brought forward this motion. This situation need never have happened. It has been constructed by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael together and that is the honesty around it. The HSE has confirmed that currently 242 people in Mayo are on the waiting list for home support. That is not right. That is home support they vitally need. A spokesperson for HSE West and North-West said that home support is provided to a total of 1,581 clients in Mayo. We cannot operate a health service without a proper home care system and despite the great work that is being done by home carers, we do not have that because staff cannot be retained.

The deal some of these staff get, in terms of the money they are paid or the lack of travel allowance they get, is not right. That is why there are problems with retention and recruitment. This situation has to be fixed because it obviously has a knock-on impact on people who are in acute hospitals longer than they need to, but also on other situations in other hospitals as well. There is a way to fix this, and we have presented to the Government time and time again how this situation can be fixed. I urge the Minister of State to listen.

Mark Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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I thank the members of the Independent Technical Group for bringing forward this very important motion. The first motion I brought to this House along with my party regarded young carers, so it is positive to see Members continuing to highlight the issues impacting family carers. During the general election, disability and care were central policy areas. I am glad to see that it continues to be a main policy priority among Members here. I am sure like many Deputies across the House, access to carer's allowance, home care hours and disability services are frequent issues that are raised with my office.

The carer's allowance payment needs to be reformed, beginning with the abolition of the means test. The payment itself was designed for people caring for older people and is therefore outdated. The payment itself is entirely inadequate. We know that caring households face additional costs due to caring. Two in five such households have a household income of less than €30,000 a year, and nearly 70% find it difficult to make ends meet. It is estimated that a household caring for a child with a profound disability has additional costs of €244 a week, while the carer's allowance is only €260. That is only a difference of €16. This rate of payment falls way below the poverty line, and with St. Vincent de Paul estimating that for 2024, €346 was needed, this means that many carers on the payment are €86 below the poverty line.

As the means test is based on household income, it leaves many carers who do not receive the payment, the majority of whom are women, financially dependent on their partners. This is another reason we must end the means test. A further point I will add is that taxation of the carer's allowance is grossly unfair. When we look at other comparable payments such as the jobseeker's or disability allowances, we see that they are not taxed even though the carer's allowance is. This places an undue penalty on family carers and further diminishes the caring allowance. We must reform the carer's allowance.

I note that in the programme for Government, there is a commitment to continue to increase the income disregards for the carer's allowance in each budget "with a view to phasing out the means test during the lifetime of the Government". This wording is obviously not what was sold to the electorate because Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are on record as committing to abolishing the means test. The wording in the programme for Government is a weak commitment to family carers and is one they will not buy. I ask that the Government once again makes a commitment to abolishing the means test, not having "a view" to abolishing it.

Family carers save the State €20 billion a year, which is close to the annual budget of the HSE, and provide 19 million hours in unpaid care every week. We need to value and recognise the societal good provided by family carers and abolish the means test. We also need to look at the appeals process. I have raised the fact that some family carers are waiting over four months for a decision to access the carer's allowance. Figures show that in 2024, the average wait time for progressing a carer's allowance appeal was 16.9 weeks, or over four months. In 2023, the wait time was 16.6 weeks, while in 2022 it was 12.7 weeks. Overall, family carers have seen processing times for their appeals increase by nearly a third since 2022. These are just average, and I am aware that a number of carers are waiting well over a year on their appeals, so the wait times are much higher for so many carers. For a family carer, accessing the payment can be a lifeline. We cannot expect family carers to wait for well up to a year for a decision on their appeal. We are seeing a year-on-year increase in the Department's need to get a handle on this processing time.

The motion also highlights statutory home care. This was a Government commitment made back in 2017, and it had a deadline for 2021, when it was set for implementation. It was a deadline the Government missed. In 2023, €1.5 billion was spent by the Government on the fair deal scheme, compared to only €723 million on home care. We have a long way to go to scale up investment to ensure that people have the right to be cared for in their community. The ESRI has estimated that the projected demand for a statutory home care scheme could increase from 18.56 million hours in 2019 to nearly 42 million hours following that.

When we look at nursing home care, we see that the Government spent €1.5 billion on the fair deal scheme compared to €723 million on home care. Given the projected demand, we clearly need to scale up the amount of investment in home care to ensure we can deliver a statutory home care scheme. Yet it is not just a matter of funding, as we all know. There is a massive recruitment and retention issue in the home care sector. I hope we can see further action on addressing the recruitment crisis. Failure to do so will only slow down the introduction of that statutory scheme.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I thank Deputy O'Flynn and his group for this important motion, which raises a whole raft of really important issues with regard to care in the community and at home, and indeed for any person with care needs. While most of the conversation today is about older people, it is about care right across the ages.

It is five years since the Minister of State's Government committed to a statutory right to home care support. I must tell him that I am now probably more pessimistic than ever that it is going to be delivered by the Government any time soon, particularly when we hear from the Minister for Health that the funding is still being considered. There is a real concern now that if we are going to wait for the various ducks to be put in a row, we are never going to have it. This Government needs to change tack and ensure that all efforts are put towards launching that statutory right in the immediate future. The importance of that statutory right is absolutely plain to see in respect of the growing share of older persons we have in our communities, the longer life expectancy, the desire to be looked after at home and, of course, the better health outcomes when people are looked after at home.

However, we currently have a haphazard system of care in the community. There is an irony in the fact that you have a right to be looked after in the hospital system but no right to be looked after at home, and that has given rise to this haphazard system where there is inconsistent access to public health nurses, and a postcode lottery with regard to where you can access home care supports. In far too many areas, I see there is little or no occupational therapist advice, so families have to figure it out for themselves. I am reminded of a number of people coming to me over the last 12 months and being utterly baffled as to how they can help their spouse remain at home, try to procure the various equipment, and care for them. There is no centralised point of information. The public health nurse system should be that point but when we look at the figures, we see that there are fewer public health nurses now across the country than there were in 2019. That is damning of this Government. It is a reflection of the complete under-resourcing of community health nursing. It is a reflection of the lack of understanding and the lack of importance applied to public health nurses, which is a vital role in the community.

We know there were just over 1,500 public health nurses - 1,507 - in February of this year. That is down from 1,539 in December 2019. Obviously, our population has grown since then and the need within our population has also grown since then. As we know, public health nurses make very important decisions in the community with regard to who can access home care packages and equipment. If we do not have enough of them, there are going to be massive issues. We saw that earlier this year, particularly in my own area, where developmental checks for infants had to be scaled back because of a staffing issue in CHO 9. We know, just as crucially, that older people are suffering because we do not have enough people on the ground.

The other key point is the postcode lottery for home care support. Here in Dublin, there is not as big a problem as there is in Cork and Kerry. I know from my family members where I come from originally that people who need that care are not accessing it because the bodies are not on the ground. That is down to pay, the inconsistency of hours, the lack of certainty with regard to hours, and the travel allowances. Ultimately, it is an allowance by the Department of Health, the HSE and the Government of this day to ensure that whatever growth we have had in home care support is by the private sector as opposed to the HSE.

In order to ensure we have proper terms and conditions for those workers, we need to ensure they are going to be HSE workers.

If we look at recruitment over the past number of years, we see that the HSE hours grew by 12% between 2020 and 2024, as opposed to 36% in the private sector. I believe that this approach is wrong because we are condemning far too many people who want to work in the home care sector to a life of precarity. The Government has to reverse tack and ensure that more people are employed by the HSE. We see in the nursing home sector that people want to work in HSE-run nursing homes. They are leaving private sector nursing homes because of the pay and conditions. In the home care sector, we need to make sure there are more HSE bodies on the ground delivering those vital services to people in order that they can stay in their homes.

Liam Quaide (Cork East, Social Democrats)
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I commend the Independent Technical Group on its motion before the House today. I welcome the discussion of issues that are of such fundamental importance in the pursuit of a fair and inclusive society, and in how we value or fail to value the lives of our disabled citizens and our elders and, essentially, who we are as a society and as a republic. In this context, the means test for the carer's allowance, which is an essential support for those providing care to relatives, usually with chronic illness or disabilities, is unjust and should be abolished. Under intense pressure leading up to the election, abolition of the means test was included in the programme for Government, but we have yet to see clear movement on this. The carer's allowance is designed to support people who give up their own time and income to provide unpaid care for a loved one. This care work is essential to the health and well-being of some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

However, the current means test penalises low-income carers, often pushing them deeper into financial insecurity, rather than acknowledging their commitment, their hard work and the burden they are actually lifting from the State. The means test for carer's allowance currently takes into account both the income and savings of the carer and his or her partner. This system, although initially intended to target support to those most in need, has proven to be a further financial and psychological burden for many carers who fall just outside the eligibility threshold. The means test fails to reflect the true financial needs of carers, particularly when they are forced to reduce their working hours or leave employment entirely for the care of a loved one. Many carers who are providing essential care are left without the financial means to support themselves, even though they play a vital role in the healthcare system and make a huge contribution to our society.

Carers, particularly those in low-paid or part-time jobs, often live on the edge of poverty as a result of this. The current system does not take into account the increased costs that carers face, such as medical expenses, mobility aids and additional transport costs, all of which further aggravate their financial hardship. By abolishing the means test, the Government could provide all carers with a guaranteed minimum income, thereby ensuring that they can continue their work without facing this level of financial distress. The means test undermines the principle of equality by treating carers as though their contributions are secondary to the economy. Care work should be properly valued, not means tested. Everyone who provides care should be treated with dignity and respect, not subjected to financial hardship.

Nursing home care should be a last resort for older adults whose physical and cognitive needs are reaching a point where they can no longer live at home. I welcome the emphasis placed by the Minister of State, Deputy Kieran O'Donnell, at the outset of his tenure on the importance of facilitating older adults to live at home for as long as possible, and his commitment to a fair deal for home care. However, it is important that we see a clear timeline soon on the creation of this scheme. Older people have the capacity to live full, authentic lives, defined by connection, a sense of humour, community, purpose, creativity and intimacy, in stages of life where physical and cognitive decline are also taking place. There is a real human rights issue with the current system of mostly private nursing homes, many of which provide for basic care needs at huge financial expense but are not tuned in to the wider needs of the whole person.

There has been a consistent trend in the policies of successive Governments toward privatisation of both home care and nursing home care. Private companies account for approximately of 80% of all nursing homes, and provide 60% of all home care hours. The outsourcing of these core services to commercial for-profit entities results in poor value for money, low pay and precarious work conditions for the people who staff them. That does not bode well for the provision of care for our older citizens. The Government needs to act on the promises of Sláintecare and reverse the increasing privatisation of health and social care. At any one time, there are approximately 700 people in hospitals throughout the country waiting to be discharged, but who are unable to return home as there is no home care support available. As of the end of 2024, 6,000 people had been approved for a home care package, but were not receiving one as resources were not available.

Crucially, and this is a real human rights issue that is very close to my heart, we need to end the scandal of young adults with brain injury and intellectual disability stranded in nursing homes because community residential services are not available to them. This is a desperately sad situation, and another example of how much of a distance is opening up between our economic prosperity on the one hand, and the vindication of our disabled citizens' basic rights on the other.

I previously spoke in this Chamber about my work in the Peter Bradley Foundation, now known as Acquired Brain Injury Ireland, in Glenageary and Dún Laoghaire many years ago. Its residential services have had a transformative effect on the lives of people who would otherwise have ended up in nursing homes or living precariously in the community. Unfortunately, one of the despairing aspects of our work involved telling so many people who had been referred to the Peter Bradley Foundation that they were being put on a waiting list for residential services that were not available because there was a limited spread of services throughout the country, and it remains so.

In May 2024, there were in excess of 1,200 people with disabilities living in nursing homes. The ombudsman, Ger Deering, has warned that Ireland will look back with regret at how we treated these citizens. His office authored a report, Wasted Lives, on their plight. Mr. Deering has appealed to the current Government to include improved funding for the HSE to relocate these young adults. He said he was "deeply unhappy" with the funding allocated in budget 2025, and he warned that "a huge amount of work" in implementing the recommendations of the Wasted Lives report may have to stop as a result. People with acquired brain injury and intellectual disabilities should be able to avail of long-term specialised residential care in the community where that is needed. They should be able to live somewhere they can call home, where they can feel safe, form healthy relationships and pursue meaningful goals. They should be supported to fully take part in their local community.

It is very welcome to have this discussion today on an area that is of such fundamental importance to our values as a society, to human rights and to the essence of what we mean by "community". This is a subject that touches the lives of all families in the State. How we support our disabled citizens, our carers and our elders to enjoy life to their fullest will define - more than anything - who we are as a society.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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I also welcome today's motion on carers. In fact, in the late nineties, I was a carer in London and I was a carer in Dublin when I returned after living abroad for a while. At that time, I noticed there was a significant difference in the level of training and support that carers were given by the agencies I was working for. I was happy to do that work. I was very young at the time, and it was a great introduction to being humble and being a carer for somebody else and putting their needs before mine.

Today, there are so many people in Ireland who are carers. I am thinking of the young carers we met recently in the audiovisual room and what they do in our community as they care for siblings, parents and other family members. Caring touches on every single family. Nobody will not be touched by it in the future. Some of us will need care. It is fundamental to who we are as humans that care is valued and appreciated.

This country runs on care. It is not the rhetoric of fiscal reports, budget surpluses and all those things that holds our society together, but the invisible, often unpaid, work of carers. Right now, they are exhausted, under-resourced and increasingly demoralised. The system is broken. It is one that penalises people for doing the right thing or staying home to look after a loved one, for stepping into gaps left by the State and for providing essential services that prevent hospital overcrowding and delay the need for residential care.

We in the Social Democrats have long advocated for a rights-based model of care. That means putting people first, not processes. It means making home support a legal entitlement, not a postcode lottery or a vague aspiration based on "available resources". It means finally ending the cruelty of the current means-testing regime, which also punishes low- and middle-income families for their compassion. In 2024, we saw a 7.4% increase in home support hours. However, let us not think that is brilliant - it is brilliant - without bearing in mind that there are still more than 5,500 people on waiting lists, with rural communities hardest hit.

My own mother was reliant on those services until she died last year. It was very difficult to get them.

I want to personally thank those people who cared for her and who are caring for others, those paid professionals who are like gold dust.

We have a fair deal scheme that is increasingly unfair. The financial penalty for leasing farmland because it is not deemed "actively operated" is a clear injustice to rural families, who are already doing their best to hold things together. How can we claim to value farming families while allowing these loopholes to gut intergenerational livelihoods?

As a member of the Social Democrats, I would like to see the abolition of means testing for carers, while recognising their role as essential workers in our health system; full pay parity between section 38 and section 39 workers; and a statutory timeline for the rolling out of universal home care.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on the motion and thank Independent Ireland for bringing it forward. I fully support the motion and its call on the Government to abolish the means test for carers to ensure equal access to financial support, and to recognise the essential social and economic value of care work in communities. I also support its call to provide increased capital and operational grants to community hospitals, residential care homes and day centres, including specific provision for dementia care and disability-friendly infrastructure.

Having worked in healthcare, I understand how important it is that our community hospitals and residential care homes are properly funded and resourced, especially in Donegal. From Malin Head to Arranmore Island, access to community care is vital for people living in rural Ireland. Despite this, community care is too often overlooked and underfunded. Investing in community hospitals would ensure that patients do not have to travel long journeys unnecessarily, which rural patients so often do.

Community hospitals also have the potential to take significant strain off our model 3 and model 4 hospitals. If patients in Donegal could attend some routine appointments at their local community hospital, it would take considerable pressure off Letterkenny and would lead to far fewer appointment cancellations. It is shocking that over 6,000 appointments were cancelled at Letterkenny University Hospital last year due to increased emergency department attendances, staff shortages and infection outbreaks. This is a massive 44% increase compared to 2023, which is outrageous.

It is clear that Donegal people are at a severe disadvantage in terms of healthcare and this is outlined in black and white. The inequality between Letterkenny University Hospital and other hospitals is truly mind-blowing. The recent suggestion, for example, to locate a surgical hub in Sligo instead of Letterkenny was a slap in the face for every single person from Donegal, especially when we know that, both distance-wise and population-wise, Letterkenny makes the most sense. As I have said before, this is not a Donegal versus Sligo thing. The north west, as a region, needs far more focus and investment. There should be a surgical hub in both Donegal and Sligo.

There are almost 10,700 unpaid carers in Donegal, which is 6% of the county’s population. That is over 10,000 people who do not get a cent for the incredibly difficult and important work they do within their communities, caring for people. It is a disgrace and completely undermines the vital role played by carers in supporting older people and people with disabilities within their homes and communities. It is time the Government valued the essential work of our carers and front-line healthcare workers.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The acid test of the bona fides of the Government on carers and caring is the immediate abolition of the carer’s allowance. This has been the demand of Family Carers Ireland for years and was promised by all political parties in the run-up to the last general election. It was understood that the means test would be abolished within the first 100 days of this Government coming into office but we are still waiting. Worse still, the programme for Government is silent on it, so we do not know when or if it will ever happen. The Minister should announce its abolition immediately.

Family carers play a very vital role as front-line healthcare workers in supporting older people, people with disabilities and those with high care needs in their own homes. Half a million family carers provide 19 million hours of unpaid care each week, saving the State approximately €20 billion. The abolition of the carer's allowance means test is the least the Government should do in return. The cost is modest in the overall budget of the State. In 2024, the Parliamentary Budget Office estimated the full cost at €375.3 million, which is similar to the figure of €389 million that was estimated by Family Carers Ireland.

The provision of respite is another vital support that is needed both for carers and those cared for, almost three quarters of whom have never received respite care. This leads to ill-health and burnout, particularly for carers.

All statutory and voluntary organisations supporting people to live in their homes for as long as possible have called for a statutory, rights-based home support scheme. Currently, there are 5,556 people on waiting lists for home care and home help. There is a huge divide between Dublin and the rest of the country. There is little or no waiting list in Dublin. For example, there is no waiting list at all in north Dublin and central Dublin, whereas the south Tipperary area has the second highest waiting list and the north Tipperary area the third highest. This postcode or geographic discrimination must stop. Many individuals in south Tipperary who have been approved for home care are either not getting any entitlement or not getting their full entitlement. Again, this needs to be addressed urgently.

Home and Community Care Ireland, in its prebudget submission for 2025, called for the restoration of the 1.9 million hours cut previously and an additional 2 million hours to meet unmet needs, and a support structure for home care workers. I strongly support this.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I dtús báire, ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis an ngrúpa teicniúil. I thank the technical group for once again putting the spotlight on the absence of services and the failure of successive Governments to recognise the invaluable work that caregivers give us. I am not going to use my own words. I am going to use the Policy Statement on Care published by the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission in 2023. As the Minister may recall, IHREC was set up in 2014 to put the spotlight on human rights and equality so we would have an inclusive society and to guide successive Governments.

What did IHREC tell us, even if it is being utterly ignored? It said that the State should prioritise the deprivatisation of care and that there should be an updated carers strategy, which is not there. The report states that care is central to a functional, equal and inclusive society. This is on pages 10 and 11, if the Minister of State would like to read it. It quotes the OECD and tells us that 9% of global GDP is unpaid-for care. It goes through this step-by-step to tell us that the privatisation of care is a disaster. Of course, it does not use the word “disaster” - I am using that word - but it tells us that it is seriously defective. It states:

Seeking to make a profit from care is antithetical to its values.

[...]

Our positions and recommendations require a fundamental change in how the State views and values care across the life-cycle.

I know the Minister of State agrees and this is what frustrates me. I know his heart and soul is behind everything that IHREC is saying because no rational person could disagree with it. It provides the solutions. The report states:

Market driven solutions can no longer be the answer. Adequate investment by the State in care, as a public service, is required... The care sector in Ireland has become increasingly privatised and commercialised...

It goes on and on. The main point is that seeking to make a profit is antithetical to care and its recommendation is to deprivatise it.

IHREC then goes on to tell us that homecare is unregulated, which is part of today’s motion. It also states that the age of carers is getting younger and younger, and that 64% of Irish disabled women have children. It tells us that the whole care issue is gendered, as the Minister of State knows, and that the conditions are appalling. It makes practical suggestions in terms of permits and so on.

I am standing here today and I do not know how many motions I have spoken on. Indeed, the Minister of State has spoken on them very eloquently and raised issues in his own constituency.

Why were we at this? It is because we blindly followed a neoliberal ideology that made a product out of care. I had someone in my office lately, as have all TDs. I will not exaggerate but, over approximately three weeks, 11 different carers were sent to visit a person who has senile dementia of one form or another. Does the Minister of State know what I was told when I was on the health forum for ten years of my life? I was told that a person does not have a right to the same carer. That is the neoliberal ideology. The Progressive Democrats were instrumental in introducing that, leading Fianna Fáil. They made a product out of everything. They knew the price of everything and the value of absolutely nothing. On top of that, to add insult to injury, a value was not even put on what it means to the economy. We cannot have an economy without carers.

Edward Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will highlight a totally unfair flaw in the operation of the fair deal scheme as it relates to land transfers. This is causing great financial hardship for families. I will explain how this operates. This rule must be changed. In over 20 years in politics, I have never come across such an unfair system. I have raised this matter previously. If a family transfers land within five years of the owner entering a nursing home, this land is valued and, if the recipient leases the land, he or she must pay the nursing home 7.5% of the value of the land on an annual basis with no time limit. I will give an example. If 40 acres of land was transferred and valued at €400,000, the recipient would be liable to pay €30,000 per annum to the nursing home. This land might be rented for approximately €8,000. The person who has the land would have to cover the shortfall of €22,000. Where are they supposed to get this money? No three-year time limit such as that which applies to the assets of the person in the nursing home, for example, their house or farm, applies to this so it could go on until such time as the total value of the land has been paid over, perhaps 14 years. This is totally daft. There is no possibility of deferment of payment as there is in the case of the family home. This is therefore a very substantial financial burden on families. Where are these families to get the funds? I know of a case in which this financial burden is causing great financial hardship. I am sure the Minister of State will agree that it is totally unfair and must be changed immediately. I do not want to speak on the other anomalies I have found in the fair deal system because this flaw is so great that the Government must focus on it fully and get it resolved.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I support the motion. In my constituency of Tipperary and across the nation, family carers are the unsung heroes who provide unwavering support to their loved ones, which often requires great personal and financial sacrifice. These carers, numbering more than 500,000, save the State an estimated €20 billion annually - imagine that figure - through their unpaid labour yet many are subjected to a means test that is both outdated and completely unjust and which disqualifies them from essential supports. While budget 2025 increased the income disregard thresholds, this measure falls short of the comprehensive reform needed. It is imperative that we move towards abolishing this means test. I compliment Councillor Richie Molloy, the manager of south Tipperary carers, all of the managers and all of the carers who provide such wonderful care.

Furthermore, the issue of home support services remains pressing. Despite an allocation of €830 million for home support in 2025, there are still over 6,000 individuals languishing on waiting lists. Think about that; there are 6,000 individuals languishing on a waiting list. It beggars belief. This shortfall is not due to a lack of funding but stems from recruitment and retention challenges within the sector. What are we doing to address these challenges? We are not doing very much. These challenges have been ongoing for a number of years now. Carers are doing a good job. We need rationalisation and recruitment so that we will have staff. Along with every other TD, I regularly get calls from people who have been approved for home help but there is no one to do the job. The HSE sees the box as ticked. That is not acceptable.

We must also address the dire need for respite services. A recent report indicates that nearly three quarters of carers have never received any form of respite. This is totally unacceptable. Implementing a minimum respite guarantee would provide much-needed relief to these dedicated individuals. We are currently not treating these carers with the dignity they deserve. They are saving the State a fortune and, in return, the State is abusing their goodwill by not providing them with decent services.

I urge the Government to take decisive action, to abolish the means test for carer's allowance, to standardise pay across all care sectors and to ensure timely access to home support and respite services. Our carers deserve recognition, respect and robust support but, unfortunately, they are not getting them.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Michael Collins and his group for giving us the chance to talk about this worthy motion this morning. I support everything that has been said. It should be every politician's ambition to allow elderly people to stay and be seen after in their own homes for as long as possible. That is not happening in Kerry. At the present time, you can qualify to get home help or a home care package but no one arrives because there are no people to provide that home help. That is very serious. I am sure the Government could be more inventive in ensuring that people are available to do this very worthy work, which would save the State an awful lot of money.

I concur with that new TD over there whom I do not know said. I thank him for raising the issue of the fair deal scheme and how it affects the farming community. As I have often said before, when it comes to assessing people's farms and the conditions that are imposed, even under the new scheme, the fair deal scheme is a lousy deal for farmers. It is not a fair deal. It is a lousy deal for farmers and must be reviewed. As that man has said, the value of the farm can be wiped out before the person who is sick passes on or something like that happens. That is very unfair. The farm should not be assessed.

There is a hospital in Cahersiveen. There were four beds there for elderly people. They were done up, revamped and everything but they have not been used for the last four years because there are no staff to staff them. Cahersiveen is very far away. If you get sick on the Iveragh Peninsula, Cahersiveen is the nearest place to you. You are miles away from Killarney, Tralee, Listowel, Kenmare or anywhere else. That has to be seen after. Those four beds have to be reopened.

The means test is one of the things we ensured was in the programme for Government. It must be abolished for carers because it is not fair. Am I all right yet?

Erin McGreehan (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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No, your two and a half minutes are up.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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All right. I appeal to the Ministers to see after the elderly people because they brought us to where we are. They fought to ensure that Ireland was a better place. They did their best. We must see after them but we are not doing it.

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is my first time seeing the Minister of State sitting on the Front Bench. I congratulate her. She is a fine representative for Carlow and it is great to see her in the elevated office of Minister of State.

I will make a few comments as part of this debate. I am glad that the programme for Government includes as a priority the abolition of the means test for carers. It is only right. It is shameful that it has taken this long for it to happen. However, I will make the point that there are currently 100,000 people in this country availing of carer's allowance. It is costing the Exchequer €1.24 billion per annum. Abolishing the means test will, of course, allow more people to qualify for the payment. It will cost the Exchequer an estimated €3 billion per annum. I note that the programme for Government states that the means test will be incrementally wound back across the five years of the Government's term. It should be brought forward and front-loaded to the Government's first budget in October 2025. We are going to be reducing the VAT rate on food and beverages in the autumn. That is very important but it is more important that we do this for carers. If we are going to front-load the reduction in VAT, we should front-load the abolition of the means test for carer's allowance.

It should be done in the budget in the autumn, and I ask the Minister of State to fight for that.

I will speak about respite, as have others. Carers are at absolute burnout. They do not get breaks. The majority of them have never had respite and if we want someone to be cared for in a loving home environment, it is crucial that we look after the carer. Far too often, they are not looked after, and they quickly see their own health suffer. They are often of a similar age to the older person they are looking after. They may have health problems themselves and that all gets exacerbated the more entrenched they become in this care scenario without respite from the State.

I will speak about the home support service, which is more commonly known as home help. Some 98% of people who are home helps or home carers are women. We struggle to find people to work in this area even though it is hugely funded by the HSE. I suggest that we make an adjustment for the people who work in this area. Let us look at taxation. A lot of these people want to be at home to be able to do the school pick-up and school drop-off. During the day they should be able to work a considerable number of hours as a home help without being penalised by the taxman. Consideration of the taxation issue could free up a lot of people to work in this area.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank everyone for the opportunity to address the House on the issue raised by the Deputies who tabled this motion. I begin by echoing the opening remarks of my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and thank the Deputies for their constructive and positive contributions to this important motion on the issue of fair and sustainable funding for carers, home support and nursing home support schemes. I make the point, as did my colleague, that the motion is not being opposed. However, before speaking on Government commitments in this area, I take the opportunity to acknowledge the essential work of carers and front-line healthcare workers. Their exceptional diligence and dedication to deliver the highest quality care to some of our most vulnerable citizens is commendable. As a result, individuals have the choice to age in their own homes and communities for as long as possible and I thank them for efforts and expert care.

Work is ongoing to ensure that carers throughout the country are supported. The care they provide is a key enabler for Government policy that supports people to live with dignity and independence at home for as long as possible. As such, it is crucial that supports for family carers are carefully considered. Recognising this, in March 2024, an interdepartmental working group examining supports for family and carers was established. The work of the group will be informed by a broader review of means-testing under way across a number of Departments. The group is chaired by the Department of Social Protection with members from the Department of Health and the Department of Children, Disability and Equality. The group will report its findings once finalised.

As outlined by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, through the carer's guarantee the Government has increased funding to support carers and to provide new training opportunities to support them in their caring roles. GP visit cards have been made available for those receiving a full- or half-rate carer's allowance or benefit. Funding has been approved under the women's health fund for a project to support mid-life and older women family carers.

Respite continues to be a vital support for carers. The Government is committed to progressively increasing funding for respite services. I have seen in my own area how respite services are so important, and it is important we have those services there, including the home support emergency respite scheme.

Addressing the challenges faced by care workers is also a priority for Government. The implementation of the recommendation of the strategic workforce advisory group has delivered significant reform in the care sector. This has included payment for travel time for home support providers, paying carers the national living wage at a minimum, and the allocation of work permits for home support workers. The work of the group will continue in 2025. Alongside this is the timely legislation being advanced to establish a licensing framework for professional home support services.

Several supplementary work programmes are ongoing. This work seeks to address a variety of areas. The future financing of home support will be an essential area of consideration in the new strategic scheme, or the strategy as we call it. The ESRI's imminent capacity review will help to inform levels of service provision required into the future. It will be a key piece of research for this work. The development of a reformed model of service delivery for home support is also under way. The HSE is in the process of procuring a comprehensive ICT system, which will facilitate robust monitoring and planning of HSE home support services. Initiatives exploring the effectiveness of home support and the rural provision of home support are being advanced, including research into the use of assistive technologies in home support. This is the way forward.

The Government will continue to ensure the nursing home sector is funded. Investment in the nursing home support scheme - the fair deal scheme as we all know it - now stands at more than €1.2 billion. It has provided access to nursing home care to many people who will never have to pay more than they can afford. Legislative changes have taken place to expand the scope of the scheme, making the scheme more accessible for farm and business owners who require long-term residential care.

I will highlight something a lot of my colleagues have spoken about. I have spoken about it myself through the years. A commitment to address means-testing is in the programme for Government, and I know it is crucial. I will go back to the Minister to speak about this. The issue of means-testing of carers is in the programme, and it is something we are committed to. I will highlight it with the Minister. I know there are the other changes and staffing challenges within the sector. That was also brought up this morning. The other thing, as Deputy Crowe has said, is that 98% of the workers are women.

It is important, as the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, said, that we acknowledge today the work that carers throughout the country do. It is so important that we recognise that and work to deliver on what we have promised in the programme for Government. I acknowledge the input of all Deputies this morning. This is a vital area of work. It is clear to me that we are all motivated to ensure that services for older people are funded. That the services are funded and that carers are supported was a priority today. I echo my colleague, Deputy O'Donnell, by saying the Government is committed to delivering on this. This is demonstrated by the work this Government is currently engaging in, and that is the work we will continue. I thank everyone. The motion is not being opposed.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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I appreciate the Minister of State saying the motion is not being opposed, but is the Government going to deliver? That is the question here, and it is a huge question. Since I came here in 2016, that has been the case - non-delivery for home care services. I thank John Campbell and Mark Nolan for helping us put this motion together. This motion is about people. It is about the backbone of carers. They are forgotten families. There are rural communities being left behind. It is about fairness, and right now what is happening in home care and the fair deal is not fair.

Almost 100,000 people are on the carer's allowance. These are our mothers, fathers and neighbours keeping loved ones out of hospital beds with their own two hands, but we punish them with a cruel, bureaucratic means test. A threshold of €450 for a single person is insulting. We need to abolish the means test altogether because care is not a luxury. It is work. It is a sacrifice. It is worth more than figures on a page.

In 2024, more than 5,000 people were waiting for home support. That is not a list; it is a line of hardship. The Government has been rolling out this statutory home care scheme since 2016, and in 2025 there is still no deadline and no legal right to home care. This is not reform; it is a farce. We want a timeline. We want rights-based care in law, and not regional roulette. If you are in Dublin, maybe your mom gets a carer next week. If you are in Connemara or west Cork it could be months. Rural areas are short-staffed, underfunded and flat-out ignored. Let us be clear. No postcode should decide whether your parents get to stay in their home. I have seen families forced to sell off land that has been in the family for generations just to pay nursing home bills. If you work the land, the three-year cap applies, but if you lease it to keep it productive, suddenly it does not. That is nonsense. We want leased farmland recognised as actively operated.

We want fairness for every farm family. The Home Care Coalition says we need €327 million more in 2025. That is not overspending, that is catching up on years of neglect, inflation, regulation and staff shortages. None of it gets fixed by half measures. We are calling for capital grants, an ICT system and full staffing support. The Minister cannot run a health service on good intentions.

Nursing Homes Ireland says Ireland's ageing population is a success story that requires strategic investment in long-term care services. Care should be viewed as an investment in social infrastructure essential for the dignity and independence of citizens. The Government most urgently publish the fair deal pricing review to ensure rates reflect the true cost of care. Additionally, a cohesive policy framework for nursing home care is needed, as current plans overlook this vital sector. The promised policy paper on nursing home sustainability must be delivered without further delay. The nursing home sector faces significant challenges, including underfunding, workforce shortages and rising operational costs. Immediate engagement with representatives of the sector is necessary to stabilise the system and prevent further closures. Private and voluntary nursing homes play a crucial role in providing quality care and must be recognised as an essential part of Ireland's mixed-model health and social care systems. Funding disparities between public and private providers are unsustainable and require immediate reform to ensure equitable funding and to safeguard access to care. This is about doing what is right, not what is politically safe. Dáil Éireann must support this motion, not for show but to ensure action is taken because when we back carers, fund home care, and protect farmers, we do not just save money, we save people.

I accept that the Minister is supporting the motion, but that must be backed up with immediate action. We cannot have the same situation happening again in four to five years' time.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion. I appreciate that the Minister is supporting it.

The means test for carers is mentioned in the programme for Government. I have seen many cases where people's sons or daughters went from the west to Dublin or wherever else and when they came home to mind their parents they were not allowed to get the carer's grant because they had a house in Dublin, for example. They were told they could not live in two houses. That is wrong, because they were saving the State money. They wanted to get €250 a week but the general cost of a nursing home is €1,000 or €1,100. We should appreciate the work done by carers right across the country. I know most people do, but the Department is throwing out wild figures of what it would cost. We do not seem to mind spending money on other things. Carers are crucial.

I know it is not just the money side of it because, unfortunately, even if somebody at home is deemed to be deserving of some hours of home care no one might show up. That is a major problem for the elderly. There is no point in getting a letter stating a person has been allocated 14 hours a week, seven hours a week or nine hours of home care if no one shows up to help. The system is not working at the moment and families are left scrabbling and trying to make sure their loved ones are looked after. Carers right across the country should be recognised for the amount of work to do, the effort they make, and what they save the State. That is ferociously important.

Some years ago I welcomed the new move on the fair deal in regard to succession, but there are anomalies. The first issue relates to who succeeds. Deputy O'Flynn spoke about succession and the case of couples who do not have children. There is a significant problem in that regard. In many farms around the country a son or daughter might have gone to a different country or they might be in Dublin for X number of years -----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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If I could have just one second. They might lease the land, and if they do, they are in trouble.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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One second or not, I call Deputy O'Flynn.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Could the Minister look at this because it is ferociously important to help the situation?

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I call Deputy O'Flynn. I apologise for my distraction.

Ken O'Flynn (Cork North-Central, Independent Ireland Party)
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I take a little bit of umbrage of what the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, said. Perhaps it was just a slip of the tongue when she mentioned the number of people who have spoken on the motion. The majority of those who have spoken on it are from the Opposition benches. Only two from the Government benches turned up for this debate, with the exception of the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, and the other Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell. That just shows what the Government thinks of this debate.

It is all very well to say the Government will not oppose the motion, but in one part of the reply it states that the Department is providing funding of €250,000 to conduct a survey on mid-life and older women and their health and well-being. Did the Minister of State ever think about going out and asking a carer what their life is like? Did she ever think about sitting down and having a cup of tea with somebody who is looking after a husband or a wife – who is washing them, feeding them and changing adult diapers? That is the reality of life. We do not need to spend a quarter of a million euro on a survey to work out what difficulties a carer has. It is all very well to say the Government is not going to oppose this motion and that it will let it go through.

We had two speakers from the Lowry Independent group, who came on our side and supported us. Why were carers not put to the fore when they were negotiating the terms of the programme for Government? Some of them were too busy trying to get into positions of power rather than negotiating for carers. Another Member mentioned the VAT rate. He failed to recognise that the cost of everything has gone up. Costs in the food industry have gone up by 40% so the Government's income from VAT is way up.

I thank the Minister of State for the fact that the motion is not opposed. While I welcome it, we must get things done correctly. The Government is spending a quarter of a million euro on a survey. While it is not costed, the Minister of State's reply also refers to another survey on healthcare assistants. That will probably cost another quarter of a million. That is money that we could be spending on the front line.

What do I say when I go back to the person in Mallow who sat in my office and said she was caring for her father and because of her husband's salary, she is getting a couple of euro a week from the Government to care for him? It costs her €80 a week to drive from Mallow to Blarney Street.

What do I say to the person in Blackrock who is changing her father's diapers and is entitled to nothing due to her husband's salary? As my colleague, Deputy Fitzmaurice, said, what do we say to the person who has had to give up their home and move into the family home, and is entitled to nothing? I can say they should not worry about it because the Government – Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Lowry Independent group - have decided to commission a survey that is going to cost a quarter of a million. What benefit is it to such a person? We already know the answers to the questions. The Minister of State should go into the AV meeting room and meet the carers groups. We must care for the carers. I will leave it at that.