Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

notes that: — more than 90 per cent of Irish primary schools are under religious patronage, while only 5 per cent are multi-denominational;

— a survey by the Irish National Teachers' Organisation found that just 4 per cent of teachers think preparing students for sacraments should be the responsibility of primary schools, while more than two fifths believe that faith formation should not take place at all during school hours;

— the Programme for Government: Our Shared Future of the 33rd Dáil, contained a target of at least 400 multi-denominational primary schools by 2030, "to improve parental choice";

— in reality, there are approximately just 170 such schools, with only 20 changing from a religious to a multi-denominational ethos over the past decade; and

— "Securing Ireland's Future", the current Programme for Government, contains no target at all on multi-denominational schools; further notes that: — the previous Government had committed to holding a Citizens' Assembly on the future of education; and

— the current Government has downgraded this commitment and has pledged to hold a "national convention"; regrets that: — despite successive Governments stated commitments to educational pluralism, the vast majority of schools remain under religious patronage, even as demand for multi-denominational options grows;

— the Government's Schools Reconfiguration for Diversity process lacks transparency, ambition, and community empowerment;

— patronage divestment is stalling due to poor community engagement, lack of clarity in the process, and no obligation on patrons to cooperate; and

— schools wishing to reconfigure face financial disincentives and logistical hurdles, creating systemic inertia; recognises that: — these ongoing delays directly undermine parental choice and the constitutional right to freedom of religion; and

— without decisive action, the goal of a pluralistic, inclusive education system will remain aspirational; and calls on the Government to: — reinstate the abandoned commitment to have 400 multi-denominational schools by 2030;

— adopt a policy that all new schools are opened under non-religious patronage;

— remove "faith formation" from the school day, with it to take place outside of school hours in line with the families beliefs;

— create a clear and independent mechanism for patronage change, via the establishment of a statutory framework for changing school patronage, with independent oversight to avoid conflicts of interest by existing patrons;

— repeal section 37.1 of the Employment Equality Act 1998, so teachers cannot face religious discrimination; and

— establish a Citizens' Assembly to make recommendations on the future of the education system, including how it might better reflect and serve a more modern, inclusive and diverse Ireland.

This motion speaks to the heart of our republic's promise of the right of every child to have an inclusive, respectful and equitable education. As a mother of four, an educator and someone who has dedicated her life to education equity, I bring forward this motion not just as a legislator but as someone who has witnessed at first hand the transformative power of inclusive education. I am speaking on behalf of many parents who are desperately seeking a multidenominational school for their child.

This is not the first time that Ireland has tried to have a multidenominational education system. Over 200 years ago, the Fourteenth Report from the Commissioners of the Board of Education in 1812 wanted to develop a national school system for children that would be free from even the suspicion of proselytising. The Stanley letter of 1831 is not just an historic document; it still underpins our national school system almost 200 years later. Schools would be established to unite in one system children of different creeds because at that time, denominational and political tensions were high. Children would receive four or five days of literary and moral instruction. On the remaining one or two days per week, there would be separate religious instruction given by clergy of respective persuasions, which could take place either before or after ordinary school hours. Unfortunately, the churches opposed a mixed denominational system and by approximately mid-century, the national school system had become a denominational system.

The Constitution was enacted in 1937. Article 42.1 states that the State "acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children". Article 42.4 states that "the State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative ... with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation".

The involvement of parents in education was strengthened in 1975 when parents were included on the boards of management of schools for the first time. At that time, two sets of parents were starting campaigns. In 1978, a group of parents in Dalkey, County Dublin, managed to get a multidenominational school opened - the Dalkey School Project. That school celebrated its 50th anniversary this year. This movement grew into what we now know as Educate Together.

At the same time, parents were battling to have their children educated through the Irish language. They established naonraí for young children and gaelscoileanna for primary school children. This movement grew into An Foras Pátrúnachta, which is the patron body for Irish-medium schools that may be multidenominational, interdenominational or denominational.

In 2006, another type of multidenominational school emerged, namely, the community national schools. The first of these schools opened in 2008. These schools are managed by the education and training boards.

In 2011, the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector was launched to begin to respond to the need for appropriate forms of primary school patronage for Ireland’s increasingly diverse society. There were four findings, of which three are relevant today. These are: divesting patronage in areas with stable populations; enhancing inclusivity in all schools; and that there should be curriculum and policy reforms. Yet here we are in 2025, more than a decade later, and these recommendations do not appear to be moving at any speed. There are only about 170 multidenominational schools today. This is a very far distance from where the Government is trying to get. Over 94.5% of our primary schools remain under religious patronage while only 5.5% are multidenominational. This imbalance does not reflect the rich diversity of beliefs and backgrounds in modern Ireland.

This motion calls on the Government to do some very simple things that would have a significant impact on the education landscape. The first is to reinstate the commitment in the programme for Government in 2020 that called for 400 multidenominational schools. This seemed to have disappeared in the programme for Government 2024. Parental choice is a constitutional right and this must be upheld. The glacial pace of change means the Government will fall well short of meeting this target. This is bearing in mind that 400 multidenominational schools will not address the massive demand for school places every year. A total of 60% of parents who were polled said they would prefer to send their children to a multidenominational school, as opposed to 10% who would prefer religious schools, yet 94.5% of schools are religious.

Although no new primary schools have opened in recent years, the Social Democrats are asking that any new primary State-funded school opened should be multidenominational to provide parents with real choice - exactly what is at the heart of this motion. There is no need to open any more religious schools; there are enough of them.

The removal of rule 68 for primary schools was a positive one. It was a rule that saw religion as being the most important part of school. It saw that religious education and spirit permeated every part of the school day. A further step would be to remove faith formation in school time. This would mean that those who want sacramental preparation would do it outside school time and it would be the responsibility of parents and their respective religious bodies to organise this. In 2025, it is absolutely not acceptable that any child is excluded from part of the school day because they are not participating in faith formation. A recent survey by the Irish National Teachers Organisation found that just 4% of teachers believe that preparing students for sacraments should be the responsibility of primary schools. More than two-fifths of them believe that faith formation should not take place at all during school hours. The removal of religious discrimination is important to ensure that no child is an outsider.

The Government's schools reconfiguration for diversity process lacks transparency, ambition and community empowerment. Patronage divestment is stalling due to poor community engagement, lack of clarity in the process and no obligation on patrons to co-operate. Schools wishing to reconfigure face financial disincentives and logistical hurdles, creating systemic inertia.

No worker should be discriminated against on the basis of their religion or lack of religion. Teachers and education staff currently face religious discrimination because they are not protected under section 37 of the Employment Equality Act. This needs to end. There is no excuse for this in 2025. We must also remove the need for student teachers to have to do a religious certificate to teach in State-funded schools. This is divisive.

The Government need to establish a citizen’s assembly, which is the gold standard for discussing topics that are complex and multifaceted. A convention, which is what is being offered, is not what we are looking for. We are looking for a full citizens' assembly.

To recap, simply put, the Social Democrats are looking for the Government to reinstate the abandoned commitment to have 400 multidenominational schools by 2030, to adopt a policy that all new schools are opened under non-religious patronage, to remove faith formation from the school day with it to take place outside of school hours in line with families' beliefs, to create a clear and independent mechanism for patronage change via the establishment of a statutory framework for changing school patronage with independent oversight to avoid conflicts of interest by existing patrons, to amend the Employment Equality Act and to establish a citizens' assembly to make recommendations on the future of the education system, including how it might better reflect and serve a more modern, inclusive, and diverse Ireland.

Every child deserves a school that respects their family's beliefs. It is time to make education in Ireland truly inclusive. I urge all Members of this House to support this motion.

Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I thank Deputy Jen Cummins for the great work she has put into this. I oppose the Government's amendment, which is so disappointing given that these are really practical and strong recommendations that we believe can bring to life the parental choice we are all seeking in the education system.

This is a rights issue for me. I was in Geneva in 2016 in my previous work in the human rights space at the examination of Ireland under the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. In between sessions, one gets a chance to talk to the committee members. The jaws of these experts were literally on the ground when they heard about the figures for school patronage in this country - that there was so little choice for people who simply did not wish to have education provided to their children in a Catholic setting. This is something I have carried with me into this role.

My constituency of Dublin Rathdown has nearly 3,000 children in multidenominational primary schools out of a total of 13,500, which is nearly 20%. For comparison, about 1,500 are taught through Irish, which is about 10%. That choice level is way above the national average and yet still I receive constant calls from parents who are so frustrated that they cannot find an educational setting that matches with their values, ideologies and choices. I will talk about my personal experience in this regard. When I raised my daughter as a single parent, I came to second-level education choices with two clear asks. I wanted her to remain in a coeducational setting, which she had enjoyed in primary school, and I wanted her to enjoy multidenominational or interdenominational education. We are both atheists.

I had two options available, one fee-paying and one non fee-paying. We applied for both, but it did not look like we were going to be accepted to the non fee-paying option so we signed up for the fee-paying option. We bought uniforms, picked subjects and planned everything. Three weeks before the start of school, my daughter was accepted to the non fee-paying school. That changed our lives. It was the reason I was able to leave the corporate sector. As a single mum who was paying a mortgage, the crippling fees I was expected to pay to one of the highest fee-paying schools in the country would have meant I was unable to leave that job and pursue what I wanted, which was public service and human rights and equality work. Parents and children should not have to lobby and campaign for schools that meet their needs and provide that choice.

Le fada tá an Roinn Oideachais tar éis an dualgas a chur ar thuismitheoirí a chruthú go bhfuil éileamh do scoileanna lán-Ghaeilge agus troid ar son oideachas dá bpáistí. Is cúis díomá é dom go bhfuil an dualgas céanna á chur ar thuismitheoirí atá ag iarraidh oideachas neamhchreidmheach

We have a clear target to meet of 400 multidenominational and interdenominational schools by 2030. We are behind, but it is not too late. Parents and children should be free to seek an education which aligns with their values. That must become a reality for parents and children who do not want religious education in school. As my story shows, and as is the case for many parents up and down the country, having choices opens up lives to new possibilities and options. They must be real choices. We cannot limit those options through a lack of availability, means or action from those making educational policy.

Liam Quaide (Cork East, Social Democrats)
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Every family in Ireland has the right to have their children educated in a school where they feel included regardless of their family's culture, background or beliefs. We have a situation whereby many families have no choice but to send their child to a school which does not align with their beliefs. Through the leadership of my colleague, Deputy Cummins, the Social Democrats are bringing forward proposals that would uphold the right to an inclusive education for all children in this country that is consistent with the beliefs of the child's family.

Polling of parents from across the country has shown that our current patronage system does not meet the needs of much of the population. Some 60% of parents would prefer to send their children to a multidenominational school. Only 10% prefer religious schools, yet 90% of schools remain under religious patronage. Throughout the country, parents have extremely limited choice in where they send their children. This is particularly true in rural areas and in my own constituency of Cork East, where, for example, we have only two Educate Together national schools and no secondary schools. We also have Carrigtwohill Community National School, which is multidenominational. This leaves many families in east and north Cork, of different religions and none, with no choice but to send their children to a Christian school to ensure they have a school place. In Cork East, we urgently need the Government to prioritise the growth of nondenominational schools, as we do throughout the country.

I also raise the long-standing issue of classroom space, which significantly impacts the students, teachers and special needs assistants, SNAs, of Fermoy Educate Together National School. The school has been in regular contact with the Department of Education since at least 2021 highlighting these concerns. The building has major space restrictions that have placed a cap on the school's growth when the demand in the area for school places is far exceeding the school's capacity. Two of its four classrooms are considerably smaller than the size the Department's guidelines recommend. One class is only 24 sq. m and another is 33 sq. m. The Department's recommended size is 80 sq. m. The school is being forced to use hallways to accommodate extra classes for children with learning difficulties. It has not been sanctioned an autism class because it does not have the required space. The school has identified, with the Department of Education, room upstairs in its building that could be converted into two appropriately sized classrooms. This situation cannot continue and the Department needs to intervene.

Fermoy and its surrounding area has a significant demand for nondenominational school places and autism classes. I ask the Minister, and the property management section within his Department, to meet representatives of Fermoy Educate Together National School to resolve this issue as a matter of urgency.

The Social Democrats today bring forward a motion that would help to achieve a more modern and equality-based educational system, and I hope the Government will support us in those aims.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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I unreservedly support the motion and thank Deputy Cummins for bringing it forward. I want to say clearly that the current system is failing to reflect the Ireland of today. In 2021, I stood in this Chamber and said the Government was paying lip service to the idea of a truly inclusive education system, flagging that there was no clear roadmap to providing 400 multidenominational primary schools by 2030. Four years on, the facts show that little has changed except that the gap between political promises and reality has grown even wider.

We know the figures. Over 90% of primary schools are still under religious patronage. Just 5% are multidenominational. There are just 170 multidenominational primary schools in the country despite a programme for Government commitment in 2020 to deliver 400 by 2030. That target has since quietly disappeared. Let us be honest with ourselves: we are nowhere near where we need to be and the current approach simply is not working.

We are a modern, pluralist and diverse Republic, yet our educational system is operating like it is still 1955. Families today, many of whom no longer identify with any religion, are forced to baptise their children just to access the local school. Teachers still face the threat of discrimination under section 37 of the Employment Equality Act simply for being LGBT in their own workplace. Students are being taught relationship and sexuality education through the lens of religious ethos, where puberty is described as a gift from God and same-sex relationships are either ignored or treated as lesser. That is not an evidence-based, modern, inclusive, progressive education and has no place in schools funded by the Irish taxpayer.

In 2021, I introduced a Bill to guarantee fact-based inclusive relationships and sex education for every student in every school regardless of its ethos. That Bill came in response to, among other things, the disgraceful Flourish programme developed by the Irish Catholic Bishops' Conference. The programme suggested, among other things, that the church's view of marriage between a man and a woman must not be omitted. That is not objective or inclusive, and simply should not be acceptable.

We were told that change would come, the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment was working on it and the Government was serious. Here we are in 2025 and we are all asking similar questions again. This motion presents a pathway forward, which is welcome. We must reinstate the target of 400 multidenominational schools by 2030 and publish a roadmap to get there. We must remove faith formation from the school day, respecting the constitutional right to freedom of religion and freedom from religion, if one so wishes. We must have independent mechanisms for school patronage change and with proper oversight and transparency. We must finally repeal section 37(1) so no teacher is ever again made to hide who they are for fear of losing their job. Crucially, we must have a citizens' assembly on the future of education. This is about more than school buildings and patronage models. It is about what kind of society we want. We want one where schools are places of learning and not places of exclusion, and where children of every background and belief can feel like they belong. We cannot keep deferring this conversation. We cannot continue outsourcing the values of our Republic to institutions that do not represent the entirety of its people.

Change is not only overdue but is demanded by the families and teachers in the communities we serve. Let us be clear that parental choice is not about pitting religions against one another. It is about recognising that one belief system should not dominate our public education system, especially not one that excludes, shames and adds silence. This motion is a call for courage, leadership and progress. I support it wholeheartedly and urge the Government to match its words with meaningful, immediate action.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dail Éireann" and substitute the following:

"notes that: — the Government recognises the importance of parental choice; and

— the Government is committed to seeking to increase choice for parents by ensuring that families can access both multi/non-denominational and faith-based education, in line with the Programme for Government commitment; further notes that: — enrolments in mainstream multi-denominational and inter-denominational primary schools rose by 87.5 per cent (from 23,721 to 44,476) over the 10-year period from 2013/14 to 2023/24;

— there are 172 primary schools with a multi-denominational or inter-denominational ethos (2024/25 school year), this includes 32 multi-denominational primary schools which transferred patronage and/or changed ethos to multi-denominational and schools established under the patronage divesting process;

— 51 of the 52 new primary schools established to cater for increased demographic demand since 2011 have a multi-denominational ethos;

— the Programme for Government, includes a commitment to 'increase choice for parents by ensuring that families can access both multi/non-denominational and faith-based education';

— as part of delivering on the Programme for Government commitment, the Minister for Education and Youth has indicated that she intends to launch an online school specific survey of parents and school communities on what type of education they would like to see for their child and their school;

— in tandem with the proposed survey, the Department of Education and Youth will be providing clear information for parents and guardians to enable them to make an informed decision in relation to the different types of primary school patronage options;

— denominational schools have played an important role in primary education in Ireland for over a century, and they, along with other primary schools, have a strong history of inclusivity in serving their local communities and accept children of all faiths and none;

— under the Constitution, the provisions of article 44 recognise the rights of children to attend school without attending religious instruction at that school, the Education Act 1998 also provides that a school shall not require a student to attend instruction in any subject which is contrary to the conscience of the parent/guardian of the student or in the case of a student who has reached the age of 18 years, the student;

— for historical reasons, most primary schools are State-aided parish schools, with the local Bishop as patron;

— it is recognised, including by the Catholic patrons, that more diverse provision is required to cater for our changing society;

— the Schools Reconfiguration for Diversity process has been developed in order to accelerate the delivery of multi-denominational schools, and this process supports transfers of schools to multi-denominational patrons, in response to the wishes of local communities;

— when a school transfers from the patronage of one patron to another, the school remains open with the same roll number, operating from the same school property and with the same school staff and pupils;

— all State-funded primary schools follow a common national curriculum and are subject to the same Department rules and regulations;

— the Programme for Government commits to holding a convention bringing together all stakeholders in education; and

— nationally, at post-primary level, 48.6 per cent of students are enrolled in multi-denominational or inter-denominational schools, 47.6 per cent are enrolled in schools with a Catholic ethos and 2.9 per cent are enrolled in schools with a Church of Ireland ethos, and the remaining 0.9 per cent is accounted for by post-primary schools with an ethos other than Catholic, Church of Ireland, inter-denominational or multi-denominational; and calls on the Government to: — take any necessary steps to ensure that patronage transfers are facilitated, where parents and school communities support this;

— establish the level of parental demand for the primary school their children attend now or will attend in the future to change to a multi-denominational ethos by commencing the planned survey of primary school communities;

— continue to progress the reconfiguration process, with the goal of establishing a strong process, that has the support of patrons and local communities, and which will enable us to continue to increase the number of multi-denominational primary schools across the country;

— ensure that the Department of Education and Youth continues to engage with key stakeholders on the reconfiguration process; and

— continue to support school communities when schools are transferring patronage.".

I thank the Social Democrats for tabling the motion and enabling this important debate. It is important that the issue of parental choice and multidenominational primary school provision is discussed. I understand the issues that are being raised in the Private Members' motion tonight.

School communities are reflective of the rich and diverse society in which we live. Parents decide on the school to which they will send their children for a wide variety of reasons and, of course, ethos can be an important factor, if not the main factor for some. Currently, 88.3% of primary schools have a Catholic ethos. Catholic patrons have indicated they are supportive of an educational landscape which will reflect the reality of the increasingly diverse society in our country. Of the remaining 11.7% of primary schools, 6.2% have a religious ethos other than Catholic, mainly Church of Ireland. These schools are catering for minority faith communities and add to the diversity of the primary school landscape. The remaining 5.5% of primary schools have a multidenominational or interdenominational ethos. Multidenominational schools provide choice for parents. They provide primary schools which are under the patronage of non-religious patrons to allow children to learn about all faiths and belief systems through a multidenominational programme.

In our programme for Government, we clearly commit to seeking to increase choice for parents by ensuring families can access multidenominational, nondenominational and faith-based education. This work is a priority for me and the Government. As Minister and as a parent whose children will attend school in the coming years, I recognise the importance of increasing choice for parents when it comes to the education of their children. The number of children attending multidenominational schools has increased, albeit not as quickly as people might have liked, from just under 24,000 to over 44,000 students in the past decade, while 51 of the 52 new primary schools established to cater for increased demographic demand since 2011 have had a multidenominational ethos. There are currently 172 mainstream primary schools with a multidenominational or interdenominational ethos out of the total of 3,082 schools. A number of counties have no multidenominational schools and many others have only one option available for parents. For me, this certainly does not equate to choice for parents. Society has changed and continues to change. It is important that we reflect on what those changes mean for the education system. For example, just over half of people getting married now do so in a religious setting. While this is not a direct proxy for what type of school parents may wish to send their children to, it requires us to discuss and consider the type of school provision we have and how we meet parents' expectations and demands of us as policymakers. It is important we understand what demand actually exists and, crucially, what parents want for their children, which will allow me and all of us working together to plan accordingly. It is recognised, including by Catholic patrons, that we need more diverse provision to cater for that changing society and meet the expectations parents have for themselves and their children.

The schools reconfiguration for diversity process has been developed in order to support the transition or transfer of schools to multidenominational patrons in response to the wishes of local communities. When a school transfers from one patronage to another, it remains open, has the same roll number and operates from the same property with the same staff and pupils. All State-funded primary schools follow a common national curriculum and are subject to the same departmental rules and regulations.

While progress has been slow, it is important to say that progress has been made towards increasing the number of multidenominational primary schools, with the number of multidenominational or interdenominational schools increasing by 65 in recent years. This has been driven by two factors, namely the opening of new multidenominational schools in response to demographic needs and the reconfiguration of schools from a denominational ethos to a multidenominational ethos in response to parental choice. The opportunities for the establishment of new multidenominational primary schools have declined. Demographic trends and projections at primary school level nationally have peaked, so the focus has to be on maximising the use of the existing school estate. That means transferring from one patronage to another. The school reconfiguration for diversity process allows us to do that. It is designed to maximise the use of the existing school estate, as it involves the transfer of patronage of existing schools. Any changes in this area should be done hand in hand with parents and school communities. In that regard, I intend to publish a framework and action plan on multidenominational education shortly.

In order to make progress, it is important to know what the demand is. That is why central to the plan is a survey of primary school communities. The survey will give my Department a greater picture of parental preference to enable it to plan into the future. It will ask parents or guardians of children in primary school or of children who will start primary school in the coming years for their preferences on important aspects of school provision and choice, including the future patronage and ethos of their school.

As well as parents, the voice of teachers and staff is important in this conversation. We have heard, and it is referenced in the memo, that the INTO did a survey recently and the results of that were clear. It is important that a separate survey will be made available to staff and boards of management. I will announce details of the survey, the framework and the action plan in the coming weeks. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of parental preference in any conversation regarding patronage. The Government and I will support the transfer of patrons of schools where this is supported by the school community. We can pick a figure of 400 but most important is whether there is a lower or higher demand and where that demand is, as well as how we identify that and how we go out to those communities, say it is clear there is a demand, engage with the school and the patrons and get involved in the process that is already there and has worked for other schools. If that is what people want, we will bring about that change. If the survey shows in certain areas there is not a demand or requirement, then I do not think it is for any of us to make that change or force it on anybody. It is important we get the survey right and everybody supports it and encourages people to take part in it because the better the picture we have and the more people engage in the survey within a community, the easier it is for us to make those choices.

Denominational schools, including Catholic schools, have played an important role in primary education in Ireland for over a century. Along with other primary schools, there is a strong history of inclusivity and of serving their local communities, accepting children of all faiths and none. I can attest to that from looking at the local community schools and primary schools in my area. They have been welcoming to students with special educational needs and those who suffer from educational disadvantage. That is down to the leaders in the schools, the teachers, the management bodies and all the staff. That is clearly reflected across the thousands of schools in this country. Article 44 of the Constitution recognises the right of children to attend school without attending religious instruction at that school. It is expected that this right will be upheld by schools on foot of a parental request. The Education (Admissions to School) Act 2018 requires that where schools provide religious instruction, they must clearly set out in their admissions policies arrangements for students where the parent has requested that the student attend the school without attending religious instruction.

On the education convention, the programme for Government sets out clearly that we will hold a convention bringing together all the stakeholders in education. The last conversation of this kind happened about 30 years ago. It was a hugely inclusive conversation and resulted in many of the agencies and bodies that now support our schools being established. It was an important step at that time but I want to go beyond that and have a larger conversation on education that will include school communities, the wider public and all the voices of stakeholders in education. The convention will deliver that and I intend to launch this early in the new school year later this year.

As we speak today, let us remember that just over 900,000 children and young people are in 4,000 schools being taught by 70,000 teachers, special needs assistants, special education teachers and many more. They are looked after by school secretaries and caretakers and many are looked after by special needs assistants. That is close to 1 million people involved directly in our schools. They have friends, families, grandparents and neighbours. Hardly a day goes by where a group of people are not talking about a school, preschool, college, university or apprenticeship. Education matters to every person in this room and in this country and it matters to our nation's social and economic well-being and progress. As we enter our second century of independence, it is only proper that we give all of our citizens a chance to talk about education for themselves and to be involved in this, not just now but for those who come after us as well. That is why I believe the convention will reflect the Ireland of today, incorporate all of those different views and make sure everybody, particularly children, have a say in what education looks like in the future.

I consider progress has been made but I accept and fully support the need for greater change and increased parental choice in education. Increased options need to be made available in order that a greater number of parents can choose the patronage at primary level that suits them and their children. Key to this work is the survey and I look forward to working with colleagues and school communities across the country to make sure we get a clear picture of what parents want, where the need is and how we take the information, because information is key, and we provide choices in the places where they are required. I look forward to working with colleagues as we start this progress in the coming weeks.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I am sharing time with a couple of colleagues. I thank my colleague, Jen Cummins, for all her work on this motion. I also acknowledge the huge work done by parents across the country who are campaigning to get an education without religious instruction for their child. Parents should not have to campaign to get the basics for their child. I thank the Minister for attending and for her contribution. She said parents choose the school they send their child to but, of course, many parents cannot choose the school for their child. I meet parents all the time in my constituency who wanted to send their child to a school without religious instruction but did not have that option. Numerous parents who are atheists have to send their children to religious schools. Then they are left with an impossible choice as to whether they remove their child from religious instruction.

They are sitting at the back of the room and are excluded. What parent wants to have their child excluded or to have to go through religious instruction that is completely contrary to the parent's values and beliefs? I have been talking to parents in my constituency who say their child comes home having been taught things in religious instruction that they absolutely do not agree with. That is very distressing for parents and is not what they should be put through, given their belief systems. I have massive respect for people of all religions and people of no religion. This is about ensuring that parents, families and children who do not want to receive religious instruction are not put through that and are not denied their rights.

The Minister said she has no targets. The previous Government had targets that it was nowhere near to meeting. The reason the Minister has no targets is that she wants to find out information, find out what the picture is and then act on it. Unfortunately, this is what has been said for years, with Government after Government saying they need to do surveys and find out what the picture is. At least the last Government had some level of targets. If there are no targets in an area and no level of ambition, then we have no ability to measure progress or hold to account the Minister and the Department regarding progress.

The education system in Ireland today should reflect the Ireland of today. That is what this motion is about. There have been huge changes in Ireland since many of us went to school but that is not reflected in our education system or in the choices that parents and their children can make. In my constituency, one of the things that parents point out to me is that there are areas with higher house prices that have a level of choice in terms of schools and denominations, but in areas with more average or lower house prices, given many families cannot afford the areas with higher house prices, they do not have the same choices. People are being put at a disadvantage due to their economic status regarding where they can send their children to school, which is relevant to their religious education. Of course, this leads to children having to travel further to a school that meets their family’s values. In terms of building communities, that does not work for reasons including traffic congestion and segregation.

I have talked to many teachers in my constituency who feel deeply uncomfortable that they are forced to teach religious instruction they do not believe to children whose parents do not believe in it. They really want that hypocrisy to end.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
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I thank Deputy Cummins for her work on the motion and also over many years on this issue and wider education issues. The pace of change is far too slow. We heard during the week in the audiovisual room from a parent who said, “I wonder if I am doing this for my children or my grandchildren.” That is how frustrated parents are about the pace of change. Across County Cork, there are 350 Catholic schools but only 13 multidenominational schools. There is no real choice or option for parents when there is that level of difference and that lack of choice.

I fully support the removal of faith formation from the school day. I was talking to a teacher who said that communion and confirmation erode teaching time and take up a huge amount of the school day. I think back to my own time in school and the hours spent on things like confession and going to mass. As somebody who is not religious, I sat there thinking this was such a waste of precious school time that could have been used for English, maths or learning other things. It should be done outside of the school day if that is the choice of parents and young people.

With regard to the allocation of time, I was talking to a primary school teacher at the weekend who said that at present, the school is spending two and a half hours a week on religious education, an hour on PE and only half an hour on SPHE. A disproportionate amount of time is being allocated. I know that this is subject to change and that there is a new framework. However, even under that new framework, for first and second class, the patrons’ programme is going to get eight hours a week, which in most schools is religious education, whereas science only gets four, so science education is only getting half the time that we are allocating to the religious programme. There are huge issues with regard to the amount of time that is being allocated. We also know that this religious ethos filters through the whole day and it is not just the teaching time. Part of that goes back to the education of teachers. Most teacher education has a very strong religious ethos and there is an issue to look at there as well.

One area I care about is that of relationships and sex education. I had members of BeLonG To in Leinster House yesterday and they were talking about some of the research they have done. It was very worrying. They conducted a survey of primary school teachers in 2024 and found that two in five felt the school's ethos had impacted on LGBT inclusivity, and one and four said they never teach SPHE or RSE in an LGBT-inclusive way. That is one in four teachers not including a portion of students in their education, and that stems back to the religious ethos and the lack of knowledge among teachers. We need to see real change in that regard. It will be good to see the convention happen and, hopefully, we will get some change.

Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Cummins for her work on this motion and I also thank the Minister for being present and engaging with the debate. This is a very important motion. Some 60% of Irish parents have expressed a preference for multidenominational schools and it is broadly acknowledged as the way forward in education. When we consider the level of oversubscription for Educate Together schools, the demand for this education is undeniable. These parents have a right to choose an education for their children that aligns with their values.

In my own constituency of Dublin North-West, there is just one Educate Together secondary school, Clonturk Community College. My son attended that school. I remember queueing up to try to get a place in the school and remember that some parents had to queue overnight to get a place. It is a wonderful school, with dedicated staff, yet they are stuck in unsuitable temporary facilities and need a new school building. In the wider area, there are three primary schools, the North Dublin National School Project in my own constituency and Grace Park and Glasnevin Educate Together national schools. Parents from all over Dublin North-West send their children to these primary schools yet they have only one option for a secondary school, Clonturk Community College, which I mentioned.

The barriers to accessing multidenominational education are numerous and real. This motion is about changing that. It highlights that the programme for Government in the last Dáil contained a target of at least 400 multidenominational primary schools by 2030 to improve parental choice, yet the current programme for Government contains no target for multidenominational schools. It appears that the previous Government’s commitment to multidenominational schools and parental choice in education has been written out of the new programme for Government.

It is also important to acknowledge and highlight that with new housing developments and the planning for that, in particular in the national planning framework, there is a need for schools to be developed alongside housing. It is a major issue that where we have housing development, we are not seeing schools being invested in and provided for along with that. In particular, if there is new State funding for schools, it should be on a nondenominational or multidenominational basis. Parents need to have that education provided for them. The Government is doing these parents and children an injustice by not providing access to the multidenominational education they want. What the Social Democrats are putting forward today is an opportunity for the Government to right the wrong, correct the exclusion of multidenominational education from the programme for Government and acknowledge this is what parents and families want for the education of their children.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We move to Sinn Féin. I call Deputy O'Rourke.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to share time with colleagues.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Social Democrats for bringing forward this motion. Sinn Féin has a long-standing policy on choice and diversification within our education system. We reaffirmed that position in our 2024 general election manifesto and I do so again now. Children have a right to an education in a school that matches their and their family’s values.

Sinn Féin firmly believes in the provision of high-quality inclusive education for all, which includes a range of school patronage models. Currently, over 90% of Irish primary schools operate under religious patronage while, at the same time, access to multidenominational schools remains extremely inadequate. Previous commitments to deliver 400 multidenominational schools by 2030 were a step in the right direction but progress has been glacial and the current programme for Government drops that target altogether.

This in and of itself is very concerning. In my opinion it does not in any way reflect a lack of interest or demand from parents and communities. The opposite is the case. Instead, it reflects a failure of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to prioritise the needs of parents and children seeking alternative educational environments. It is clear that the current situation created by the Government and its lack of political will towards this matter undermines parental choice. Therefore, we call on the Government to recommit to the target of 400 multidenominational schools by 2030.

We acknowledge the Government's intention to conduct a survey on parental preferences regarding school ethos. However, we urge the Minister to expedite this process and ensure its findings are acted upon swiftly. Furthermore, we believe the Government must address the systemic issues hindering patronage investment. The lack of transparency, community engagement and clear mechanisms for the change are unacceptable. Schools wishing to reconfigure should not face financial disincentives or logistical hurdles. The survey must happen soon. The Government's countermotion and parliamentary replies to me on the matter do not inspire confidence in this regard. We need concrete commitments and timelines. The survey must be confidential and it must be comprehensive. When the survey is ready to go, it must be accompanied by an information campaign for parents and school communities.

We need movement in this regard because it is clear the school reconfiguration for diversity process has failed. A tiny number of schools have been transferred from religious to multidenominational patronage since 2013. The reconfiguration process as it stands lacks ambition. It lacks transparency and it lacks any real power to compel change. Patron bodies have no obligation to co-operate and communities and parents are left in the dark. The Minister should establish a clear process for school patronage change and it needs to be adequately resourced. I do not see the need for a large budget for this but there is a definite need for financial support to help with the transition.

Equality in education means that all students should have the same opportunity to succeed. This includes equal access to resources, fair treatment and a supportive environment. It is not right, fair or proper that children are left to feel isolated or excluded when faith formation or sacrament preparation is going on, for example in a Catholic school when a child is not Catholic. I say this as my party's spokesperson on education and as a father whose children are Catholic and attend a Catholic school. It is not fair that their friends are hived off into a corner during the school day. I understand there are constraints, challenges and conveniences for some in the existing system, and speaking for myself, we have to look at the system as a whole as a public service for the public good and at treating children fairly.

I thank the Social Democrats for bringing forward this motion. I have to say the Minister's countermotion is completely lacking in ambition or impetus. For this reason, Sinn Féin will not be supporting it.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Social Democrat Deputies for tabling the motion this afternoon and giving us a chance to have this discussion. Similar to Deputy O'Rourke, as well as being a parliamentarian I am a parent. It is a long time since I had a child in primary school but in order for her to be able to attend an Educate Together school I had to fight very hard simply to get her a place. This is the experience of parents who want a choice outside of the Roman Catholic model. Not everybody wants their kids in such a school. Even people who are Roman Catholic are quite happy to have their kids get their religious instruction at home. It is a private matter and that is possibly the best place for it.

For any parent who does not wish their children to participate in what we might call the older or more established model of schooling, it is always a battle. The Minister knows this herself from her constituency. It is always a battle. It is always a fight. People always feel they have to fight the system simply for the opportunity for their children to be able to attend the primary school of their choice and, having attended the primary school of their choice, to be able to attend the secondary school of their choice. This is something that is a constant source of amazement to me as there is nothing more certain on the day a child starts primary school than that the child in all likelihood will need a secondary school. If their parents have chosen nondenominational or multidenominational education for them at the age of five we do not need to be at genius to figure out it is unlikely to change by the time the child reaches the age of 13. Therefore, a similar type of education will be wanted for secondary school. Multidenominational or nondenominational education is not just a primary school thing; it is also a secondary school thing.

I want to raise with the Minister an issue of concern in my constituency. In Skerries we have an Educate Together primary school, and there is also one in Rush and Lusk. There is no Educate Together secondary school in either of these places, unfortunately. This means parents have to ensure their kids can get to school. I have corresponded with the Department on this and I have submitted parliamentary questions. I am told that eligibility for the school transport scheme will have regard to ethos and language. To be frank with the Minister, it does not seem to have regard to the ethos when it is one of a non-religious nature. This is something that needs to be looked at urgently. In the response from the Department there was mention of a number of pilots in operation. I would like to know when they will conclude and when we will know what the outcome is. More importantly, I urge the Minister to take a look at the criteria to ensure that parents who want their children to continue in the education system they started in primary school can do so. They should have the right to continue it through secondary school.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Education is the foundation of any progressive society. It shapes our children's futures, reflects our values and must adapt to the needs of a changing Ireland. For too long our education system has failed to keep pace with the diversity of modern Ireland. We need real diversity in school patronage which respects freedom of religion and finally puts parents and children at the heart of our education system. The facts speak for themselves. More than 90% of our primary schools remain under religious patronage and only 5% are multidenominational. Meanwhile a recent INTO survey found that only 4% of teachers believe sacramental preparation should be the role of the schools.

I speak today as the parent of children attending a Catholic school. I am very happy with the school, and with the patronage and ethos, but this is not to say there should not be choice for families and parents. Despite these realities the Government has downgraded its commitment, replacing action with a vague national convention. Worse still, patronage divestment has stalled, not because of a lack of demand from parents and school communities but because of poor engagement, unclear processes and no obligation on patrons to co-operate. This is an attack on parental choice and the constitutional right to freedom of religion.

Sinn Féin has long championed real choice in education. Our 2024 manifesto committed to a new strategy for diversification, supporting multidenominational and Irish-language Gaelscoileanna. When new schools are being created, and we all understand there is a need for new schools in most of our communities, they should be nondenominational by default to provide this diversity. This would ensure no family is forced to send their children into a system or ethos that does not respect their values. We should prioritise Gaelscoileanna. Irish-medium education should be part of this diversification and an important part of this conversation.

Meaningful consultation with parents is needed because communities should decide what is best for their children. The evidence is clear, with 61% of adults preferring multidenominational education compared to just 9% who favour religious-run schools. Teachers themselves demand change. However, the Government refuses to listen to the people who matter the most. This is about equality, choice and respect. No child should feel excluded in their own classroom. No parent should be forced to send their child to a school that does not align with their beliefs. I thank the Social Democrats for bringing this issue to the fore and forcing this debate in the House. I will support the motion and oppose the Government's countermotion, which rips the heart out of the proposal we are here to discuss.

Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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I am glad to have an opportunity to speak on this motion. Gabhaim buíochas leis na Daonlathaithe Sóisialta as ucht an rún seo a chur faoi bhráid na Dála inniu.

Multidenominational and nondenominational schools reflect our increasingly diverse population. Their purpose is to ensure every child feels they belong when they walk through the gates of their local school. Year on year I hear from parents in north Kildare who want to send their children to multidenominational and nondenominational schools. Others want to have the choice of sending their child to a school that is not dominated by a particular religious ethos.

Naas Community College and North Kildare Educate Together School in Celbridge, among many others, are shining examples of this. Only today, I heard that we have a waiting list of more than 20 children for Maynooth Community College, another multidenominational school in north Kildare. Such schools are increasingly popular and with school places at a premium, we have to build the schools so that they are available to the children who need them.

Ní hamháin sin, ach Gaelscoileanna chomh maith. Tá níos mó tuismitheoirí ag iarraidh a bpáistí a chur go Gaelscoil. Tá sé de cheart ag páistí oideachas a fháil trí Ghaeilge. Gaelcholáiste Mhaigh Nuad, which is both a multidenominational school and a Gaelcholáiste, demonstrates how we can support children from all religious backgrounds and increase the number of daily Irish speakers in the country. However, this school needs a permanent building now. If the Minister is checking up on her parliamentary questions, she will see I have raised many parliamentary questions on this matter over the past few years.

Parents of children with additional needs are also crying out for appropriate school places for their children. I look forward to meeting members of the Kildare SEN Action Group tonight, with an Teachta Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh, to see how we can help them in securing proper, adequate and resourced spaces for children with additional needs in Kildare. Their struggle highlights the complete failure of the Government to provide educational rights for all the children of the State. The Government needs to get serious about education for all our children.

I will be supporting the Social Democrats' motion. I congratulate Deputy Cummins on her first motion.

Ann Graves (Dublin Fingal East, Sinn Fein)
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The education of our young people is hugely important. We need to ensure it is carried out in a supportive and inclusive environment.

Sinn Féin has a long-standing policy on choice and diversification in education. In our manifesto in 2024, we committed to developing a new strategy to support existing and emerging demands for diversification of patronage in school. This includes State co-education, multidenominational and community schools based on the provision of high-quality and inclusive education.

The Government has said it will conduct a survey of parents on their preferred ethos for schools. In a recent response, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, indicated she intends to launch a survey of primary school communities shortly and that further details regarding the survey would be announced in due course. We need to know the details. We need a timeline for when this will happen. It needs to be rolled out as a matter of urgency.

The Government has not delivered on previous commitments. The Minister must ensure adequate availability for students seeking to attend a multidenominational or non-denominational school. Engaging with parents, staff and pupils has to be a priority. The results of a recent INTO survey show that our education system must evolve to reflect Ireland's diversity and multiculturalism.

Teachers urge the Government to speed up the divestment process and to actively invest in the growth of inclusive schools. The Government must immediately expand the number of non-denominational and multidenominational schools to reach its previous target of having 400 such schools by 2030. It is deeply concerning to parents that this target was dropped from the 2025 programme for Government. We need to see some real progress.

The Government should improve the pilot programme intended to facilitate the transfer of school patronage in cities, including Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick. There must be greater engagement with stakeholders and the community. The process relating to divestment must be established to retain the confidence of all stakeholders.

Students must also have the right to be educated through Gaeilge. It is hugely important that the Government provide full access to education through the medium of Irish. I applaud the Sord Mullach Íde Gaelscoil campaign. It is striving to provide education through Irish in Fingal east, Swords and Malahide. At present, we have four Gaelscoileanna but we have no meánscoil for the children to progress to. Children have to commute outside of the area to attend secondary school in Irish and the school transport system does not pay for them to do so. The Minister needs to look at progression from Gaelscoileanna into meánscoileanna.

Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Cummins for bringing this motion to the Dáil. It is a topic I hold dear to my heart.

In my personal experience with my own children, I had little choice when I lived in Belfast prior to the Good Friday Agreement. I sent my children to the local Catholic school, particularly for protection at that time, given what was going on and the attacks on schools. It was for safety purposes. When I returned to Dublin with my young family, I wanted a more diverse education for my children. A group of us parents went about setting up the Griffith Barracks multidenominational educational setting. It involved a lot of hard work and some novel actions being taken by parents who just wanted a different approach. I shout out to them. I am very proud of that school, which has grown enormously. There is a great sense of safety in it school and a great sense of creativity.

In my party's manifesto in 2024, we commited to developing a strategy to support existing and emerging demands for increased diversification of patronage in schools. The Government's 2020 programme for Government committed to having 400 non-denominational and multidenominational schools by the end of the decade but this commitment is curiously missing from the 2025 programme. The Government is out of step with our communities in this respect. I am disappointed by the proposed amendment, which dilutes everything.

Yesterday, Deputy Jen Cummins presented a session with Educate Together, which has opened 50 multidenominational schools since 2013. No new Educate Together schools are planned, however, despite extremely high demand. In Dublin South-Central, the constituency I share with Deputy Cummins, the Educate Dublin 8 group has been working towards the objective of establishing a new secondary school in Dublin which is inclusive and multidenominational. However, due to lack of availability in the area, nearly half the children in the area are taking a bus out of their area to ten schools elsewhere. They need a school in their own community.

A survey by the Yellow Flag Programme found that a quarter of post-primary students feel their ethnic or cultural identity is not reflected in the classroom. Multidenominational schools can help address the deficiency of inclusivity. The Ombudsman for Children, Dr. Niall Muldoon, for whom I have a great respect, stated, "Having children and young people driving inclusion ... is the secret of changing society over the long term."

The Minister has said she intends to launch a survey of primary school communities shortly on parents' preference regarding the ethos of schools. We cannot afford to delay this any longer. It must be undertaken immediately in order to implement desperately needed changes for the children of Ireland.

I will be voting for Deputy Cummins's and the Social Democrats' motion and against the amendment.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Cummins and the Social Democrats for bringing forward this important motion. They have a long track record in this area.

From a Labour Party perspective, I wholeheartedly welcome this motion. It addresses an issue that was close to the heart of our former education spokesperson, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, who very much championed it in a cold place when his was a lone voice calling for greater divestment of school patronage in this country.

Before I talk to the frustrations, and the motion presents the frustrations felt by many parents very well, it is important to state that there has been some progress in some parts of the country, particularly in my constituency of Dublin Central where, in recent years, two new Educate Together schools were established on the border between Dublin North-West and Dublin Central, Grace Park Educate Together National School and Dublin 7 Educate Together National School. We have a new Gaelscoil, Scoil Áine, under the patronage of An Foras Pátrúnachta. We have a ground-breaking secondary school, a product of a collaboration between Educate Together and the education and training board, in Clonturk Community College, of which I was proud to be a board member. It is important to note that that took a long time and the leadership of a small number of fierce parents. But for their tenacity and persistence - I am thinking of Anne Phelan and others - we would not have that school today. Cabra Community College, which is a different type of school, also came out of a grassroots campaign in 2019, of which I was part.

This was a small number of parents who were utterly dismayed at the lack of co-educational secondary school offerings within Dublin 7. They wanted a co-educational school that was also multidenominational, if possible. Cabra Community College had a very long and proud tradition in Cabra but had very small numbers. We ultimately saw this school transformed into the school it is today. The numbers coming in are growing and the ETB and Educate Together are in an effective partnership to grow the school. There has been some progress but it is critical to understand and acknowledge that there is great frustration in many parts of this city of Dublin and right across the country.

When talking about choice in the context of education, we have typically associated it with the call for divestment and more multidenominational education but it is important to say we should also consider choice in the context of co-educational education, an teanga Gaeilge in the context of bunú Gaelscoileanna agus Gaelcholáistí, and children with additional needs. There are children across this country who should be in reading schools, who are in the first percentile and who are eligible for such schools but who are being told by the Department of Education that they need to remain within mainstream schools. A number of parents have come to me to say they believe their child would thrive in a special reading school but is being denied that choice. My colleague, Deputy George Lawlor, spoke last week about how there is only one special school in the whole of Wexford. The area of additional needs is very complex. That is why there is an issue in trying to match children to places. However, there is far too little choice with regard to additional needs and ensuring those needs are met.

Maidir leis an teanga Gaeilge, tá an t-ádh againn i mBaile Átha Cliath Láir go bhfuil dhá Ghaelcholáiste, Scoil Chaitríona agus Coláiste Mhuire, i mBaile Átha Cliath 7 agus Baile Átha Cliath 9 ach is amhlaidh go bhfuil an-éileamh ar Ghaelcholáistí nua a bhunú trasna na tíre, go háirithe i Baile Átha Cliath 6 agus 8 agus in áiteanna eile trasna na tíre. Tacaíonn Páirtí an Lucht Oibre leis an bhfeachtas chun níos mó Gaelcholáistí a bhunú in áiteanna eile sa tír because there is now great demand for education trí theanga na Gaeilge. Frankly, that demand is not being met across the country.

When talking about choice with regard to denomination, I am very clear that this motion calls for multidenominational education and to effectively take denomination out of the school system. That is a position I wholeheartedly support. In the spirit of a true republic, there should be no denomination within any school and we should have community national schools, as we see in many other countries, where religious instruction takes place outside of school hours. However, under our system and the Constitution as it was set out, the logical conclusion is that choice should allow for denominational, multidenominational and non-denominational education. I think of the parents who have chosen to send their kids to the North Dublin Muslim National School in my constituency of Dublin Central. There is obviously also a whole raft of Catholic schools but there are also Jewish and Protestant schools out there. It is important that they have a voice and a say in this conversation. While much of the conversation has been about divesting Catholic schools, there is no doubt but that minority faiths wish to have a voice in this conversation.

There has been a long-standing call for a citizens' assembly on education. My colleague Aodhán Ó Ríordáin spent many years calling on the previous Government to introduce a citizens' assembly on education. However, we now need a convention. I know the programme for Government refers to a convention on education but we need to see something very bold and imaginative. Some 30 years ago, Niamh Bhreathnach established the first convention on education. That was groundbreaking at the time and very significant reforms came out of it. We should go larger than the citizens' assembly model and ensure that all stakeholder voices, the voices of children and youth themselves and the voices of randomly selected members of society are part of that conversation. We need a convention on education but it must be much bolder and more imaginative than anything we have heard the Government propose so far.

We are here because of the enormous frustration of parents. There is also great discomfort on the part of many teachers, as reflected in the INTO survey published this week. The reality is that progress in education has always been painfully slow. I was looking back today and I believe it was in 2012 that the infamous section 37 of the Employment Equality Act was repealed. This effectively exempted schools from equality legislation and allowed them to discriminate against LGBT teachers, unmarried parents and divorced teachers on the grounds that they might undermine the ethos of the school. It is just over ten years ago that this appallingly discriminatory legislation was repealed. Progress is tortuously slow in the education space.

I am reminded of the forum on education that ran from 2011 to 2016 and the campaign for divestment that came out of it, which was spearheaded by Ruairí Quinn. Progress has ultimately been way too slow and insignificant, as we see reflected in the motion. The reason is that most of the power remains with the patrons. The approach the Department of Education has taken to the divestment process has been far too hands-off. For as long as the Department of Education takes that approach to the running of schools in this country, we will not make any progress.

I am reminded of an issue I dealt with in respect of a school in Donegal a number of years ago. A Catholic school wanted to become co-educational. It was as simple as that. The board, the staff and the parents all wanted it but the Bishop of Derry was opposed to it and delayed it for a long period. Section 62(4) of the Education Act makes provision for the board to eventually effectively overrule the patron but the Department of Education provided no support to the school at that time. It is not a widely known part of the Act. The Department needs to take a much more active and robust approach to divestment.

Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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The Social Democrats have tabled a motion in the Dáil that calls for the Government to increase the number of multidenominational schools and to phase out religious patronage in special education. I have listened carefully today to all the reasons we should remove church patronage. There are also those of us who oppose these statements and who argue that religious institutions play a significant role in the community and that their influence should be preserved. Along with many others, I worry that phasing out religious patronage could disrupt existing school structures and community ties. Independent Ireland will stand firmly against this motion and I urge the Minister to consider the numerous benefits religious patronage brings to our schools and communities. Catholic schools and other religious institutions provide an education grounded in strong moral and ethical values. These values, such as respect, compassion, integrity and service to others, are not just taught but woven into the very fabric of the school environment. They help to shape well-rounded individuals who are not only academically proficient, but also morally grounded and socially responsible. Religious schools foster a strong sense of community and belonging for many families. These schools are more than just educational institutions. They are an integral part of their communities' cultural identity.

The shared values and traditions create a supportive environment where students and family feel connected and engaged. Many religious schools are known for their high academic standards and commitment to educational excellence. They often achieve outstanding results, not just because of rigorous curricula but also due to the dedication of teachers who view their work as a vocation. This commitment to excellence benefits all students regardless of their religious backgrounds. Religious education focuses on development of the whole person's mind, body and spirit. This holistic approach nurtures students in a way that prepares them for all aspects of life. It encourages them to be thoughtful, reflective and compassionate individuals who contribute positively to society.

Religious institutions often provide significant financial support to their schools. This can include subsidies, fundraising and donations that help to maintain and improve schools' facilities and programmes. This financial backing ensures that the schools can offer high-quality education while keeping tuition fees affordable for families.

In a diverse society it is crucial to offer parents and students a variety of educational options. Religious schools provide an important choice for families who wish to have their children educated in an environment that aligns with their values and beliefs. Removing this choice would not only limit education diversity but also infringe on the rights of parents to decide the best education path for their children. I talk with experience on many fronts and with a clear understanding. I spent 20 years on a board of management in a Catholic school. I am not ashamed of that and in fact I am very proud of that. I spent ten years as the chairperson of that school board. I never once as chairperson of a board of management in any way shape or form, nor did the principals, ever pick on them and I believe that Deputies here have insulted quite a lot of principals and their teaching in Catholic schools. We have been as fair to children who came in whether they had a religion or did not have religion. They were treated with the respect they should have been treated with. The way some Deputies have spoken in here, mother of God one would think that the students are getting an awful time altogether in these Catholic schools. They are not. Stop. Stop this nonsense for God's sake.

A total of 93% of schools in this country have a religious patronage. I feel that this motion should not be able to attack the religious. It should be attacking the Department for not funding schools properly. For example, in Dublin recently a school was almost faced with closure. This is happening the length and breadth of the country. I can only talk on behalf of the school where I was chairperson of the board of management. When we were stuck and the Department failed to step in it was the church that stepped in to look after the children's needs and the school's needs. The church stepped in there. That is an incredible situation that nobody wants to acknowledge. Good God we would be afraid to acknowledge that in case we would upset the minority up there. The whole point is that the church is very strong and in some cases it has actually pulled out a cheque for the local parish priest to keep the electricity going in the schools. This is an astonishing situation that the Department should be covering and be looking after, and it is not doing so. We will not support the motion. We will certainly oppose it all the way.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
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I wish to start by congratulating the new Pope. I believe there is white smoke in the Vatican. I congratulate the new Pope. It is great news.

I read the motion and I listened to the Social Democrats' contributions. To be honest I am quite surprised. They talk about pluralism and choice but it seems that the only choice they want to provide is the choice of those people who agree with them. There are thousands of families who are happy with the ethos of their school and who support the ethos of their school. Yet the motion seeks to deny parents, principals, teachers, and boards of management the ability to decide the ethos of their school. There is nothing pluralistic about this motion. I believe that pluralism is about inclusion and supporting the diversity in our culture. This is what we should be doing.

On the support for divestment, we believe that parents should have a choice. The choice must acknowledge and must recognise that where parents decide they support the ethos of their school the Social Democrats should not overrule or override that. This is what choice and pluralism actually means. Today's motion seeks to ban new schools in terms of faith patronage and to ban faith instruction. There is nothing pluralistic about that. What other countries in the world have sought to ban education pluralism? North Korea and Cuba. Those countries are not something we should be following. Politicians should never try to enforce their own rules on the public. We should celebrate the differences in our society and allow culture to be supported. I come from a teaching background. All children should be supported and families who wish to have their children in a school that is similar to their ethos should be supported. I am really disappointed that this is not captured in the motion.

Article 42 of the Constitution states that parents are the primary educators for their child. In that sense I do support the Minister's contribution earlier today around the survey that would seek to acknowledge that and support this in the education system. It is curious that the Social Democrats advocate for the removal of faith because of its perceived lack of evidence and yet they have no problem supporting a gender ideology in schools and puberty blockers, which have no basis in education at all.

The Minister referred earlier to a recent survey from the INTO at the conference. It stated that 60% of teachers voted against removing faith in education in our schools. They did so because parents actually do not support its removal. This is the case in many schools, I am not saying all. That is our perspective and that should be supported. Where, as the survey dictates, parents are happy with their school ethos then we should support that. The Irish Times also found that 70% of parents want their children to receive faith-based instruction. I ask the Minister to consider this contribution as well.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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In the minute I have it will be very hard to say much.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Tá nóiméad go leith ag an Teachta.

Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Cathaoirleach Gníomhach. I agree with a lot of what the Social Democrats are trying to do. We do need to recognise the diversity we have and possibly take religion out of schools. It is an issue for parents to decide. Religious instruction being done outside school time makes a lot of sense. What we have in Ireland, however, is an Irish solution to an Irish problem where all the new schools - or most of them, 50 or 51 - are multidenominational.

The Cathaoirleach Gníomhach has given me an extra half a minute. If we held the referendum tomorrow, and remember the Catholic Church owns most of the schools in the State, I would hazard a guess that for noble reasons and for less noble reasons people would vote against taking religion out of schools, but we should have that discussion and we should put it up to the people. We do not want to end up like Australia with elite Catholic schools.

The minority religions in this country do feel very strongly about having their ethos and the way they are tied up in the community. I do take on board some comments about how schools and churches are very much linked but in urban areas I definitely think that the closest school is always the best school for the child, irrespective of ideology. Maybe we should be taking religion out but let us have a wider and proper discussion on it and put it to the people, maybe through a citizens' convention.

Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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Aontaím go mór leis an rún seo. When we speak about education we do not just speak about education, buildings or the boards of management. We speak about values, choice and identity. I can understand a lot of the stuff behind the motion. I agree with the spirit of the motion but I also signed up to support the programme for Government. I did not do so blindly and uncritically. I had a good look at the programme for Government and there is a clear thing that is not mentioned in this debate. On page 66 it says the Government will "Hold a convention bringing together all stakeholders in education." Will the Minister tell us when this will be done? We need to bring in all the stakeholders. Have communication. Hundreds of parents in north Dublin have spoken to me who want the choice.

I want to be able to hold the Government to the commitments that other Independents, the two parties and I have signed up for. It is a document that we all agreed would say this was what we were going to do. Some 90% of primary schools in Ireland remain under religious patronage, as has been said by everyone in this Chamber, with fewer than 6% being multidenominational. The parents I speak to in my constituency tell me that they do not have the choice. Some parents want non-religious education while some want coeducational schools. The numbers bear this out. As Deputy Gogarty just said, 51 of 52 new schools have been multidenominational. However, the overall pace of change remains too slow for the parents who want that choice.

The previous programme for Government committed to "400 multidenominational primary schools by 2030", a target that has vanished from the current document, similar to other targets in much of this document. It is one of the first programmes for Government to omit this. I understand why, as it means the next Government would otherwise be held accountable. However, if we believe in pluralism and inclusion, we must show it in writing and show a clear commitment to how much we are going to do.

The Government amendment rightly acknowledges parental choice and increasing enrolments, but it fails to mention in its amendment key commitments, such as the promise to expand opportunities for students to attend Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcholáistí. This is something that I am hearing consistently. I am in a group chat - the Minister is well aware of it - of 450 parents who are still banging on the door. I have asked already but will do it again: will the Minister get the Department to reach out to Gaelcholáiste Reachrann before the end of this term? North Dublin needs to be shown that the Gaeilgeoirí in the constituency have the right to a school building. I was very lucky to have a sister who taught me the Irish language, but there are children attending that school whose parents do not have the language. If we want to revitalise the Irish language, we need to give them that choice. Is í ár dteanga dhúchais í, agus caithfimid a bheith bródúil as ár dteanga dhúchais agus an t-airgead a chur isteach inti. Mura bhfuilimid á dhéanamh sin, tá sé uafásach do na daoine óga atá ag fás aníos ag iarraidh ár dteanga dhúchais a fhoghlaim.

Let me say this clearly: we cannot talk about parental choice and diversity in education while ignoring Irish-medium schools. This is not pluralism; it is selective silence. I asked the Minister to go to Gaelcholáiste Reachrann, not for a photo op or TikTok video, but as a show of respect and seriousness, because they are the generation who sustains and grows the Irish language. We must fund and support the schools that do the work every day and show the teachers who are in a staff room in a prefab that we are committed to supporting them.

I wish to speak directly to the parents, especially those campaigning for change, whom I met in the audiovisual room recently at an event held by one of the Minister's party's members. I have listened to them and I am hoping to push from the inside. I am not turning my back on their campaign. I am using this to insist that the commitments made in the programme for Government are kept, crucially, the commitments to Irish-language education, Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcholáistí, reflecting both parental choice and our national identity.

There is a short line in the programme for Government. It is easy to miss, but it is essential, "Hold a convention bringing together all stakeholders in education". Cathain atá an tAire chun é sin a dhéanamh? We need to have the convention and the clear choice. I apologise if she has already announced it and I missed it. The future of Irish education cannot be decided behind closed doors. It should be co-created openly and transparently and with all people involved.

I support the amendment, but I will not be supporting the motion. Let us honour the programme for Government and show the people that we mean what we said and what we all signed up for.

Colm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Today's debate has been beneficial. I have listened carefully to contributions made by all Deputies, each important and warranting consideration. The Minister, Depute McEntee, who was in the Chamber until just now, has given particular updates and outlines of current work happening within the Department and the planned work to increase the number of multidenominational schools where parents and school communities want this.

In response to the issues raised, and adding to the earlier contribution made by the Minister, it is clear that parental choice is key. It is recognised that more diverse provision is require to cater for our changing society. I am conscious that, as well as parents and guardians, teachers and school staff in our schools are a reflection of modern Ireland. At post-primary level nationally, 48.6% of students are enrolled in multidenominational or interdenominational schools; 47.6% are enrolled in schools with a Catholic ethos; and 2.9% are enrolled in schools with a Church of Ireland ethos. The remaining 0.9% is accounted for by post-primary schools with an ethos other than Catholic, Church of Ireland or interdenominational or multidenominational. Progress has been made toward increasing the number of multidenominational primary schools.

As the Minister set out, there has been a large increase of 87.5%, albeit from a relatively low base of just under 24,000, to more than 44,000 in student enrolments in mainstream multidenominational and interdenominational primary schools over a ten-year period. There are currently 172 primary schools with a multidenominational or interdenominational ethos. This represents 5.5% of primary schools. However, at primary level, we need to do more. This is why I very much welcome that the Minister has set out that she and her Department are developing a framework and an action plan to increase the number of multidenominational primary schools to meet parental demand and the commitment in the programme for Government. As part of delivering on the programme for Government commitment, the Minister intends to launch an online, school-specific survey of parents and school communities on what type of education they would like to see for their children and schools. A separate survey will be made available to school staff and board of management members. In tandem with the proposed survey, the Department of education will be providing clear information for parents and guardians to enable them to make an informed decision about the different types of primary school patronage options.

As the Minister has set out, the schools reconfiguration for diversity process has been developed to support the transfer of schools to multidenominational patrons in response to the wishes of local communities. That is key. The wishes of local communities are what matters here. When a school transfers from the patronage of one patron to another, the school remains open, retains the same roll number and continues operating from the same school property with the same school staff and pupils. It is recognised, including by Catholic patrons, that more diverse provision is required to cater for our changing society.

Patrons have a legal right to design their own programmes in accordance with the ethos of their schools. Religious education is one of the seven curricular areas of the primary school curriculum. However, unlike other subject areas, the content of the religious curriculum provided by primary schools is not set by the Department of education. Section 30 of the Education Act provides that time will be made available in the school day to teach curriculum that arises from the ethos of the school. This means that the content of a religious instruction programme in a particular primary school is determined by the patron of that school.

Denominational schools have played an important role in primary education in Ireland for more than a century. They, along with other primary schools, have a strong history of inclusivity in serving their local communities and have accepted children of all faiths and none. As the Minister referenced, the provisions of Article 44 of the Constitution recognise the rights of children to attend school without attending religious instruction at that school. Furthermore, the provisions of section 30(2)(e) of the Education Act 1998 provide that a school "shall not require any student to attend instruction in any subject which is contrary to the conscience of the parent [or guardian] of the student or in the case of a student who has reached the age of 18 years, the student". It is expected that this right will be upheld by schools on foot of a parental request. The provisions of the Education (Admission to Schools) Act 2018 requires that where schools provide religious instruction, they must clearly set out their admissions policies and the "school's arrangements ... [for] student[s], where the parent ... or in the case of a student who has reached the age of 18 years, the student, has requested that the student attend the school without attending religious instruction". The manner in which any school ensures that right to not attend religion instruction classes is upheld is a matter for the school concerned. Each school must determine the particular arrangements that are appropriate in its individual circumstances, having regard to local issues such as available space, supervision requirements and how the school concerned organises classes.

The Department of Education and Youth is working with education partners to assist schools to strengthen their approach in providing for diverse enrolments in a changing society. Guidance for good practice is available to schools in the follow-up paper to the report of the Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector, which was published in 2014. The paper provides an overview of the different types of arrangements that schools have put in place to facilitate parents who do not wish for their children to attend religious instruction activities. The paper encourages school authorities to consider their policies and practices and to review whether they are taking the steps necessary to welcome all pupils and make them feel included. The Catholic schools partnership has also published guidelines for Catholic schools on the inclusion of all pupils. This also contains suggestions on how such schools can manage requests to attend school without attending religious instruction.

The Government has committed to holding a convention that will bring together all stakeholders in education. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, has committed to ensuring the convention will reflect the Ireland of today in all its diversity and, in particular, the voices of children and young people, their parents, their guardians, education stakeholders and the voices of wider society. It is also important we reflect on how best to provide for what is working well in education, what challenges are beginning to emerge and what actions we need to take to address these challenges and examine what needs to be changed. The Government's goal with the convention is to develop an ambitious vision and programme of work for education that will deliver both over the coming years and in the medium-term future.

The Government recognises the importance of parental choice and is committed to seeking to increase the choice for parents by ensuring families can access both multidenominational and nondenominational and faith-based education in line with the programme for Government commitment. We will therefore establish the level of parental demand for primary schools their children attend now or will attend in the future and to change to a multidenominational ethos by commencing the planned survey of primary school communities. We will take any necessary steps to ensure patronage transfers are facilitated where parents and school communities support this. We will continue to progress the reconfiguration process with the goal of establishing a strong process that has the support of patrons and local communities and which will enable us to continue to increase the number of multidenominational primary schools across the country. We will also ensure the Department of Education and Youth continues to engage with key stakeholders on the reconfiguration process and to support the school communities when schools are transferring patronage.

The focus of the Department of Education and Youth is on maximising the use of existing school estate by facilitating the transfer of patronage of existing denominational schools rather than establishing new multidenominational schools where that is the preference of local school communities. This provides the most cost-effective method for delivering on the programme for Government commitment to increase the choice for parents by ensuring that families can access both multidenominational and nondenominational and faith-based education. As the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has stated, the Government recognises the importance of parental choice and we are committed to delivering an education system that is of the highest quality and where every child and young person feels valued, actively supported and nurtured to reach their full potential.

I thank everyone for their contributions to today's debate and I ask the House to support the Government's countermotion.

Aidan Farrelly (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister of State for his contribution. I commend the work of my colleague Deputy Jen Cummins - or, of particular interest and of importance in this debate, Dr. Jen Cummins - who has dedicated her professional life to education, both formal and informal. I say that just to add even further credibility to the validity of this motion. This is evidence-informed and it is important that we are discussing this. I ask the Minister of State to reflect on the contributions we have made and their content.

I have been a youth worker for about 15 years. The Education Act stipulates that youth work is complementary to a young person's formal and academic qualifications. We have heard other contributions today about some of the key ethical and value-based interventions that formal education can make. Youth work does similar but it is also stipulated that it is complementary to the full-time education that children and young people experience. What is so powerful about youth work is that young people choose to engage. Ultimately, this debate boils down to choice: choice for children and young people, choice for their parents, choice for communities and choice for the staff in communities. What we hope to achieve and the purpose of this motion is that our entire community has an inclusive opportunity to be engaged in our full-time education system.

The Minister of State will be aware that we have a capacity issue in many areas when it comes to education. Many parents would simply accept any offer of an education place at this point. That is no compliment of the system. The system is fractured when that is the case. I reiterate my call for the forward planning teams in the Department to really engage with community leaders where there are issues of capacity. We need to work together. Rather than asking parents who are already under so much pressure to have to campaign themselves for the opening of new schools or extensions, we should get our forward planning in tandem with our population growth.

Before giving way to my colleague Deputy Cummins, I implore the Minister of State and the Government to consider withdrawing this amendment. All we have asked for in this motion is for the policy ambition of previous Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil governments to be continued with regard to a target. We are not asking for anything that has not been in previous programmes for government. With that in mind, the motion gives assurances to communities that we can seek consistency in our policy, in our planning and in what we hope, whether it is for our children or our children's children, that there will be a level of ambition there and that there is choice, to come back to that word.

I accept the amendment. There is a culture here whereby, irrespective of the Private Members' business, it is changed and amended and we go with what the programme for Government says. This motion actually just seeks to reiterate what the previous programme for Government had committed to. With that in mind, I ask while we have time between now and the voting block that the Government might consider withdrawing that amendment.

Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
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I thank everybody who participated in today's debate. More importantly, I thank all those parents, educators and campaigners across the country who continue to fight not for privilege but for parity and not for special treatment but for choice. This has been going on for 50 years. I have been a campaigner for multidenominational schools since 2007. As a family of a minority religion as well as strong believers in that religion as a private matter, we needed a school where we would be welcome. Griffith Barracks Multi-Denominational School was that school. I became involved with the patron of that school and the board of management of the school and then I became a director of the board of directors of Educate Together. I served as chair of that board of directors for five years. In the course of that time, we opened up 40 new multidenominational schools. We saw the 40th anniversary of Educate Together. We also saw schools through the Covid-19 pandemic. As an employee of City of Dublin ETB, I saw first-hand the establishment of community national schools and I have worked with many schools that are multidenominational and religious patrons throughout this country.

Yesterday in the audiovisual room we heard from a parent who went to a multidenominational school 30 years ago. Now she has twins and unfortunately does not have a school place that represents her family. She is still fighting. Her parents fought, she is fighting, and we are all continuing to fight.

In my constituency, in Dublin 8, the Educate D8 campaign is fighting tirelessly to ensure that they have a multidenominational school in their area. We brought forward this motion because the current system is dominated by religious patronage and no longer reflects the reality of the Ireland we live in today. It is a diverse and modern Republic, yet over 94.5% of our primary schools are under religious control. It is not balanced, not inclusive and not a choice.

Our motion is not an attack on denominational schools at all, and I want to make that very clear. It is about providing choice, and that includes if you want to send your child to a multidenominational, nondenominational, interdenominational or denominational school. That is okay by our motion.

The Government's amendment gestures towards progress. It recites statistics, restates old commitments and assures us that things are moving, but it also avoids a central truth that everyone in this Chamber knows: change is happening far too slowly and families across Ireland are being left behind. Despite all the carefully worded acknowledgments in the amendment, families are still struggling to access schools that reflect their beliefs, communities that want change are still being left in the dark and year after year the Government promises more diversity but delivers more delay.

We welcome that there are now going to be two surveys. We are a little bit concerned, however, that there is just constant talk of surveys but the surveys have not gone out. They were meant to go out in September 2024. It was the same in January 2025. The school year is nearly over. Ask any school principal and they will tell us the year is going to fly by and they have a load of work to do. Surveys need to happen immediately or it will not be possible to collect the data. This Dáil term will be over by the time the data is collected and put into effect.

We heard a lot today about choice and diversity but we cannot achieve either as long as we cling to a model that puts religious patrons in charge of our children's schools and does not give choice to every parent. We welcome and acknowledge that denominational schools have served communities. We know this. There is a very strong history of denominational schools being excellent for the children in those schools but there are still children sitting in classrooms who are being excluded every day. Parents are being forced to send their children to schools that do not reflect their values. Teachers are still being asked about their religion in job interviews, to teach things they are not comfortable with and to do a certificate at university so they can teach in a State-funded school.

This motion does not ask for anything extreme. It simply calls for a real and deliverable target of 400 multidenominational schools by 2030 and for any new school being opened to be a multidenominational school. There are already quite a number of denominational schools, as we and several other Deputies outlined. It also calls for faith formation to happen outside core school hours and respects all beliefs. There should be an end to religious discrimination in hiring so that merit and not belief determines who teaches our children. There should be a transparent and community-led mechanism for school reconfiguration and not one controlled by the very patrons who benefit from thestatus quo. There should be a citizens' assembly on the future of education because a system-wide reform must belong to the people.

These are reasonable requests and reflect what parents want across the country. People supporting this motion will see if the Government does support it. I know it has an amendment submitted. I echo what Deputy Farrelly has said in urging the Government to withdraw the amendment. Not removing the amendment will demonstrate that the Government is not accepting our motion. We are trying to reflect what the parents around the country are asking us for. They are asking for more spaces in schools and for more choice. We are saying that we hear and believe them and we are with them. Voting against the motion will dilute the proposals. There will then be excuses. We do not accept that and we do not believe the public will either. It is time to stop managing expectations and to start meeting them. Let us build an education system that reflects who we really are and aspire to be.

We are asking the Government to withdraw its amendment and support our motion so genuine choice for parents in their child's education is truly acceptable. We have a wonderful education system but it can be better. I have said this so many times on the floor of this House. We really have high-quality education. We have excellent schools and excellent teachers, SNAs and people working in them, but we need more choice so that people do not feel excluded. No child in 2025 should be sitting at the back of the classroom excluded. No child should feel they are not part of their school community because they have different beliefs. In a multidenominational school, everybody is equal, everybody is treated with respect and all beliefs and none are respected. This is simply what we are asking for. Go raibh maith agat.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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In accordance with Standing Order 85(2), the division is deferred until the weekly division time next week.