Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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104. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection for details of the review into the hot school meals programme. [21369/25]

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Minister for details of and a review into the hot school meals programme.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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As I said in reply to Deputy O'Reilly, the hot school meals review was announced when we expanded programme just ahead of the Easter school holidays. With regard to nutrition, the specific standard was set under the nutritional standards for school meals and nutritional standards for hot school meals. A technical nutrition subgroup comprised of dietitians from the Irish Nutrition and Dietetic Institute of Ireland, the HSE, Safefood, and the Food Safety Authority of Ireland came together and developed the standards, which are available on gov.ie.

Nutritional standards are a priority. I have asked for a review of the scheme’s nutritional standards, and this will be conducted by a dietician who will be supervised by the Department of Health and in co-ordination with the interdepartmental group on school meals. I have asked for a report on the nutritional standards be submitted to me by the end of this calendar year.

In the meantime, food that is high in saturated fat, sugar and salt will be removed from the school menus by September 2025. Up to now this food had been permitted once a week at most and only when selected by childrens' parents. I trust this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Perhaps the Minister will elaborate on this but from my understanding is that of the 2,220 schools participating in the programme, only 14 will be assessed this year. That is fewer than one in five schools. The review has been announced but we need to know the terms of reference as well. Will the Minister come back on that? How long will the review take? He said he hopes to have the review on his desk by the end of the year but is that the review of just the portion of schools that will be reviewed this year or is that an overall review of all schools? The Minister mentioned nutrition and a dietician and the standards he is looking for and that is what we all support. The one thing we can say about the free hot school meals programme is it is a really good initiative for a lot of children. It ensures that we know every child has at least one hot meal per day. This is what we can get behind and can work together on because at the end of the day we want children to eat hot food that is nutritious at the same time. I am not here to criticise. I am here to support getting the hot school meals programme right. This is for all children and something we all want to work for.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Deputy entirely. We want this scheme to work. We will do the final roll-out in September so that every primary school pupil in the country will have had the opportunity to have hot school meals within their school. At that time I intend to stand back and examine at the scheme to see where it has been working and where it has not. I will be very focused on DEIS secondary schools during the lifetime of this Government as well.

The review that is under way is on nutritional standards. I will have the final report of that review by the end of December and will act on that because there are concerns contained within it. There will be 400 inspections conducted by my Department this year relating to the contracts between schools and school meal providers. That is a process I am also looking at to make sure it is more in-depth. The nutritional review is being led by a dietician under the supervision of the Department of Health. This ensures they are the expert person to look at the nutritional side and then the operational side of the programme will be reviewed once the final roll-out into the remaining primary schools has been completed.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with the Minister that we need the highest standards of nutrition, especially when dealing with young children so I support that. I have a couple of concerns. The same funding of €3.20 per meal and portion size is given to children ranging from junior infants to sixth class, that i,s from children as young as four to the age of 12. I am not sure if the Minister has kids but I have two girls and I recall when they were at that age. I have coached teams and seen that boys and girls of 12 years of age cannot have the same portion size as a four-yea- old so that needs to be examined. It needs to be amended and I ask the Minister to look at that.

A report by the Irish Farmers Journal found that some rural schools find it difficult to get local suppliers. The Irish country living section found that the traceability of the food can be poor. One example was where an ingredient was listed as "pasta sauce". That is not an ingredient so we need to work on that to ensure proper ingredients are supplied.

Last, I have concerns the programme is all being subcontracted out. I would like, where possible, for these workers to work in our schools and be part of our education system from a food point of view and a provider point of view. We see more and more privatisation. That has always been the Government's agenda. I do not want to argue with it but I would like to bring the programme back into the schools and see people employed full time to do it.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I totally agree with the Deputy that a five-year-old should not receive the same portion as a 13-year-old and we get that feedback a lot. I suspect there are Members who have seen food come home with schoolbags and probably found it a few days later.

Every school has the flexibility, within procurement rules, to choose the provider of the food. There is not some massive corporate monolith. There are a lot of locally-based companies providing services, local employment and the highest standard of locally sourced food. Yes, there are anomalies and it is always the anomalies that are highlighted In my own and Deputy Conway-Walsh's county there are small, owner managed companies working hard and that is replicated across the country so we do not want to lose that model. I had a good discussion with Deputy O'Reilly about the potential involvement of the meals on wheels network in delivering school meals and we will look into doing that if the capacity is there.

The review on nutrition will consider all the other issues raised by the Deputy. Pasta sauce is not that bad for you.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have no doubt about that. I am not saying it is, either.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The review will absolutely capture all of that. It is very important. There are a lot of local companies involved in this that otherwise would not be providing quality employment and service without this programme.