Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Is náireach plean an Rialtais beagnach €500,000 a íoc leis an sár tithíochta nua chun post a roinnt leis an Aire tithíochta. Tá an pobal iontach feargach mar gheall ar seo, agus ní cóir go rachaidh sé ar aghaidh. Ní féidir le duine ar bith an seasamh seo a chosaint agus ní cóir go n-éireodh leis.

A sum of €430,000 is the off-the-wall salary that the Tánaiste's Government is planning to pay the new housing tzar to come in and basically jobshare with the housing Minister, Deputy James Browne. A few words have been written and used to describe this decision. They include "absurd", "extravagant" and "scandalous". I will add another: "embarrassing". The Government should be embarrassed that it was prepared to pay someone nearly half a million euro to take up what are the main responsibilities of the Minister for housing. The Minister himself said that this housing tsar will come up with "rapid responses from all angles and unblocking delivery via a targeted team of experts." Does he not realise that that is his job that he is describing? That is his actual job. It is farcical.

The Taoiseach lectured the Opposition that this whopping €430,000 will not cost the public any additional money. He said this is because the Government's preferred candidate, Brendan McDonagh, is already receiving the salary as the head of NAMA. The Taoiseach's claim that the public will not cough up for this gold-plated salary appears not to be true, because this morning it has come to light that following the winding-down of NAMA, which is happening this year, McDonagh is due to return to his role in the NTMA at a significantly reduced salary so the taxpayer will foot the bill for this madcap salary. Is that not the truth?

There has been much speculation as well that Fine Gael is not happy. The media has been briefed about rows at Cabinet. Fine Gael backbenchers are apparently up in arms. Apparently the Tánaiste himself was blindsided by this bonkers decision and the process that was involved. He should come off the stage. There is no blindsiding going on here. This appointment and the name of Brendan McDonagh has been flagged in the national media with him as the lead candidate for nearly two months. Either the Tánaiste was very much on board or he was asleep at the wheel. Which one was it? Was he just oblivious to everything that has been written and said for the past six weeks or is this just an attempt by Fine Gael to dress this up as a Fianna Fáil solo run and a PR job because he recognises there is a public backlash about this? Ordinary people are shaking their heads and are sick to their stomachs in disbelief. This is happening at a time when so many are finding it difficult to make ends meet, hit by rip-off bill after rip-off bill and at a time when our working people and young people are struggling to find a home and to keep a roof over their heads. It is a real slap in the face for them.

It is not lost on anybody that this is happening on International Workers' Day, when the Government is breaking its election promises about increasing the minimum wage to the living wage and rowing back on its pledge to increase the number of paid sick days for workers. I know the Cabinet committee on housing is meeting today about this embarrassing idea to have a jobshare for the housing Minister. Will the Tánaiste come to his senses? Will he call stop on this absurd idea to pay someone hundreds of thousands of euro to do the job of the housing Minister, which he is already well-paid for? If this idea goes ahead and if the Tánaiste thinks he has seen a backlash now, he should get ready because he has not seen anything yet.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. We all agree that housing is the most important issue. There is a housing emergency in this country. There is an onus on all of us to come forward with ideas and policies to try to make real and meaningful progress for people in the country. I hope we are at least united on this.

This Government has taken a number of steps on housing since coming to office only months ago, including publishing an implementation plan for the Planning and Development Act 2024, publishing draft legislation about short-term letting and the regulation of that sector, bringing forward proposals regarding exempted development and making it easier for people who want to construct developments, particularly on their own land and in their own gardens, and indeed having a new housing plan by the summer recess. The Cabinet committee on housing will meet about that issue today. We have also published the new national planning framework, which was before this House this week and indeed the other House. It is key to ensuring that we have enough zoned land across our country to build homes.

We all know that when it comes to the building of homes for our people and getting people out of box rooms, one of the key barriers that people find with regard to construction is silos, where there is a site but there might not be a water connection or a wastewater connection, there might be an ESB challenge or there might be another blockage. When the previous Government set up the Housing Commission, it recognised this issue and called for structures to be put in place. It talked about a housing delivery oversight executive office to bring in expertise and people from different utility companies to ask how we are going to unblock a site and build more quickly. The Deputy is in favour of that idea, which is why I am surprised at his opposition to the idea of setting up this office. Page 98 of the Sinn Féin housing plan does not talk about jobshares or anything else but about setting up a housing delivery oversight executive to bring forward exactly what we now want to do too. Sinn Féín talks about bringing it forward on a statutory basis, ultimately, which I am happy to talk to Deputy Doherty about, but it talks about setting it up in the first instance-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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No housing tsar. Where is the housing tsar? Read it out.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There is no housing tsar for us either.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I love the way Sinn Féin loves to laugh and joke about the issue of housing. It proposed in the general election that if it was elected to government, and thank God we were spared that, it would establish a new office to bring forward all of the different structures to break down silos. That is what Sinn Féin proposed. The Housing Commission proposed that, and so did the Government. When we got together after the election and formed our programme for Government, we said we would take on board what seemed like a sensible idea, to second people, bring in expertise, and try to get homebuilding accelerated. That is a good idea. On Tuesday at Cabinet, we agreed to establish that office, something very similar to what Sinn Féin wanted on page 98.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin policy-----

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is the only decision that we have made. We have not made any decisions about personnel or pay. Process matters with all of these issues. We will continue to engage as a Government, now that we have made the decision on establishing the new office, on how best to staff that office. The overriding objective will not be personality but will be getting the job done and making sure that people who live in box rooms in their mums' and dads' homes can move out and into their own home. We are taking on board the good suggestions from the Housing Commission. Heaven forbid, we might even be taking on a reasonably good suggestion from Sinn Féin about trying to establish a unit just like this. I am quite surprised that Sinn Féin seems to be so against it today.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Who is the Tánaiste trying to fool? He just stood up and barefaced said there is no housing tsar in his plan. Is that what he is trying to say? Does he know what his housing Minister said on "RTÉ News at One" yesterday? He said that Brendan McDonagh is "our preferred candidate". The Tánaiste said there are no candidates. The idea that there have not been conversations with Brendan McDonagh is nonsense, as is the idea that the Tánaiste did not know. Did the Tánaiste not read the Business Post six weeks ago when Brendan McDonagh's name was mentioned? What about Jack Horgan-Jones' piece about a month ago? The idea that the Tánaiste is blindsided by this is nonsense. The Government is proposing a housing tsar with a salary of €430,000. That is what is on the cards here. Deputy James Lawless, a Minister at the Cabinet, was talking in Kildare this morning and said that it is a big salary. This is understood, yet the Tánaiste is trying to backtrack after a public backlash about this.

A housing tsar is a daft idea because the housing Minister should be doing that job in the first instance. What salary is the Tánaiste willing to accept to pay this housing tsar? What salary does he believe is appropriate? Is it €300,000, €350,000, €400,000, or €430,000? Will he please give clarity to the people about his thinking on this? Or will he just wait to see what way the wind blows, go with it and then pretend he was never on board in the first instance?

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am very on board with setting up a housing activation office and I thought Deputy Doherty was too. It is in page 98 of Sinn Féin's own plan, about breaking down the silos, bringing in expertise, and-----

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure whether its Deputies read the policies but that is what they all ran on in the election.

They ran in the election and said that he wanted to establish an office to bring together people to break down silos relating to housing.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Of course.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is what we are doing. It was not Sinn Féín's idea or ours; it was a good idea that came from the Housing Commission and we are trying to act on that. The Minister was quite right this week to bring forward a proposal to Cabinet to move that forward. The only decision the Government of Ireland took this week was in that regard.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister was quite right this week to bring forward a proposal to Cabinet to move that forward. The only decision the Government of Ireland took this week was regarding that.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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How much is the Tánaiste willing to pay?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Now that the Government of Ireland has done that, we will decide how best to populate the office, process matters - I want to understand the processes followed regarding key personnel - and we will then address all those matters and put this together.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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How much is the Tánaiste willing to pay for the jobshare?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is the appropriate way. Of course, people who do a job will be paid a salary but this not about personalities.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste has no idea, just like on housing. He has no idea.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy Doherty.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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In the first instance, this is about getting things right. Speculation in the media is not how we do things in government. We will bring forward proposals, we will tease them through-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister put it out on the media and announced it.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----and we will consider them. That is exactly what we will do in the hours and days ahead and we will get this right-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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How much is the Tánaiste willing to pay for the jobshare?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----with a housing activation office to break down silos. Getting the right people in place is also important.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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How much is the Tánaiste willing to pay?

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I wish everyone today a happy May Day. Many workers across the State are looking forward to a day off on Monday; a public holiday introduced by the Labour Party to mark International Workers' Day. It is important we mark this day. Its purpose is more than just celebrating the progress made on workers' rights in the past 100 years because May Day is also when we shine a light on the continued exploitation, poverty and inequality experienced by far too many people still.

Today, we think of all those working families struggling to pay their bills. We heard only yesterday a spike in food prices last month has pushed our annual inflation rate to 2% and, more and more, people are struggling to makes ends meet in a cost-of-living crisis. This is partly why there has been such uproar about the outrageous almost half a million euro salary proposed for Fianna Fáil's housing maverick; a housing oligarch or a housing tsar with a Russian oligarch price tag. W e might call it a "fixer-in-chief" or even "a fixer with a nixer" and what an extraordinary nixer this is. It is interesting to hear the Tánaiste and Fine Gael colleagues distancing themselves from this. Indeed, people will be glad to hear he has just said no decision has been made yet on how to populate this new office. When households are stretched, people need reassurance from Government. On the issue of reassurance, the Tánaiste needs to give workers a reprieve on low pay. Those who are on low pay need to have hope for the future.

This year marks 25 years since the introduction of the minimum wage. It is ten years since Labour, and my colleague, Deputy Nash, established the Low Pay Commission with the support of the Tánaiste's party, Fine Gael, and the commission has done a good job. Thanks to its evidence-based approach, we have seen nine successive increases in the minimum wage so that each year, those on the lowest salaries have been given more money in their pockets to pay for basic necessities and to put aside for the future. Our common goal should e to ensure workers in this country are not just living to work because they must spend every waking hour toiling to cover the cost, but that they are able to work to live.

Those minimum wage increases would not have happened without the Low Pay Commission. They would not have happened were the Tánaiste's party left to its own devices and I say that not to cause offence. In fact, Fine Gael's recent record in workers' rights is stronger than his partners in Fianna Fáil. At the first sniff of a previous economic downturn, Fianna Fáil leapt to cut the minimum wage, shamefully, by €1.

The Government must do more now. Lowest paid workers in Ireland were promised a living wage by 2026, calculated at €14.75 per hour, a floor which no one should fall beneath. Disappointingly, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Burke, has moved the goalposts, shifting that deadline again, this time to 2029. He cited the need to take account of competitiveness issues but that is a red herring. The Low Pay Commission is already required by law to take competitiveness into account under section 6 of the Act. Instead of trying to pin competitiveness issues on the lowest paid workers in the State, will the Tánaiste commit to honouring the Low Pay Commission's approach-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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-----and stick with that 2026 deadline? Can he give workers a hope on May Day, a hope for the future, to move them out of the poverty trap?

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Bacik for that. I also wish everyone a happy International Workers' Day. I would like to acknowledge the incredible work done by workers right across our country in the public service and in the private sector, as well as the many people who work here in Leinster House to help our democracy function on a daily basis. Objectively, it is fair to say a lot of positive measures have been taken, as the Deputy referenced, in recent years to support workers.

The minimum wage in Ireland has been increased by more than 33% in the past five years and if I am correct, we now have the second highest minimum wage in Europe. We have introduced statutory sick pay when, two years ago, we lived in a country where there was no statutory sick pay scheme. We have pay-related benefits, which is a really important reform, that took effect at the end of March and this, again, provides a greater safety net to workers if they lose their jobs. I am pleased that auto-enrolment will be introduced from 1 January 2026. I acknowledge the proposals my colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Calleary, brought forward on that to Cabinet this week. This will ensure that workers right across our country will have greater financial security and comfort in their retirement. It addresses a real divide that has existed in respect of pensions for a very long time.

We have also had other important changes, including a new public holiday on St. Brigid's Day, introduced in 2023, and legislation to ensure employers must distribute tips fairly among their employees. Changes such as remote working have also had a positive impact on many workers, though I acknowledge we continue to work through all the change that brings about together. It has largely been very positive for many workers and certainly for many people I meet when I go about my business.

We have made progress on issues such as parental and paternity leave. We published - through the Minister, Deputy Burke's work for consultation - an action plan on collective bargaining, which has been one of the key asks of the union movement in its engagement with Government in recent times. More broadly, I am pleased we now have the Labour Employer Engagement Forum, LEEF, which works very well. It is chaired by the Taoiseach and is attended by myself, the Ministers for Finance, Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Social Protection and other relevant Ministers, to tease through in a collaborative way a range of issues that relate to our economy, enterprise and the like. That is a structure that works well too.

Of course, Government must always balance all these issues by making sure we hear the concerns of our small businesses, medium-sized businesses and indigenous-owned businesses across the country. I take the point they should never be pitted against each other. Employers know that looking after their employees well is in their interest for a variety of reasons. The Government will see further minimum wage increases and recognise the ongoing work of the Low Pay Commission. I acknowledge the work done by Deputy Nash on that. We want to see a living wage introduced by 2029.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I have certainly acknowledged positive advances made for workers' rights, fought for and campaigned for by trade unions and the trade union movement. At a time when we are seeing significant divisions emerging between the Tánaiste and his senior coalition partner in Fianna Fáil, perhaps this is the time for him to carve out a space on workers' rights that emphasises the difference between Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, not just on "fixers with nixers" but on issues that actually matter to working people. The Tánaiste's predecessor, Leo Varadkar, spoke very positively about workers' rights. The Tánaiste has spoken very positively about workers' rights. This is a difference he could make in government and that is why it is so disappointing that one of his Ministers is talking about delaying that necessary move to a living wage to 2029 and citing competitiveness as a reason for doing so. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Burke, knows the issues really affecting competitiveness in this country: lack of infrastructure, chronic housing shortage, and spiralling energy bills. That is what is driving competitiveness issues for small businesses and our economy, not low paid workers. They should not be bearing the brunt of a cost-of-living crisis.

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I assure Deputy Bacik the Government is unified in wanting to support our workers and economy and wanting to protect their jobs too. I agree low paid workers and workers in this country are certainly not responsible for the many turbulent challenges the global economy faces and the impact that may have on Ireland.

We are very lucky to live in a country where our union movement was very constructive in its engagement, even during the darkest days of the financial crisis. I acknowledge that on International Workers Day. It does not mean we always agree with them or they agree with us - I do not want to kill their street credit - but it is important we have that constructive engagement and I acknowledge that. On the living wage, this was about trying to calibrate it correctly. It has been - not by the Deputy - sometimes misrepresented or discussed in recent days as though the minimum wage will not continue to rise or that the journey towards the living wage will not continue; it will. We will continue to see the minimum wage increases. At present, we have wage growth in Ireland of approximately 3.5% to 4% and inflation at approximately 1.7%. We are back seeing real wage growths and people's incomes going back up. We are now also trying to help in other ways. Hot school meals and free school books are of course benefiting everybody but also our low paid workers. We will continue our positive agenda in this regard.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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One of the first protests I went on was to demand the introduction of a minimum wage.

At that stage there was no minimum wage. Bosses could pay what they liked. That campaign was won and 25 years ago a national minimum wage was introduced. Scandalously, the minimum wage included provision for legal discrimination against young workers. That inequality continues to this day. Around 15,000 young people in this country are legally paid less than the minimum wage. We have a national minimum wage of €13.50 an hour which is less than the living wage, a wage which makes possible a minimum livable standard of living. The road to that living wage is getting longer under this Government. However, bosses are allowed to pay 19-year-olds 10% less than that inadequate wage, 18-year-olds can get 20% less and 17-year-olds and younger can be paid 30% below the minimum wage, an insulting €9.45 an hour. When they go to pay for groceries, they do not get 30% off the bill. If a 19-year-old is renting, he or she cannot take 10% off the rent or get a young person's discount on petrol. It is blatant discrimination for young workers doing the same work as their colleagues.

In the Oireachtas committee, the employers' group, Irish SME Association, ISME, claimed that it is in loco parentis over young workers who, I quote, "may favour gratification before learning how to budget", that bosses are doing young workers a favour by underpaying them otherwise, they might waste the money on sweets. ISME also revealed the real reason it wants to keep subminimum wages. It said if young workers get the full minimum wage, this will have a spill-over impact on other workers' pay demands. In other words, it is about wage suppression for all workers.

Two years ago we in People Before Profit proposed a Bill to do away with this legalised super-exploitation. It passed Second Stage but with a timed amendment from the Government to delay it by a year. The excuse for the delay was that the Low Pay Commission was due to report on these subminimum wage rates. The Low Pay Commission did report, last March. It recommended that subminimum wages should be abolished. Were they then abolished? No, the can was kicked down the road again with an economic impact assessment. I asked the Minister for an update on the progress of this assessment. The reply to the parliamentary question I got on Tuesday said it will not be finished until June but that regardless of that, "the Government has agreed to defer any decision on sub-minimum youth rates of the National Minimum Wage." That is to say, the Government is going to continue with legalised super-exploitation of young people, even after the Dáil voted to end it and the Low Pay Commission recommended that it be done away with, and before the economic impact assessment commissioned by the Government has even been completed. On May Day, on International Workers' Day, will the Tánaiste please reverse course on this anti-worker agenda? Will he commit to equal pay for young workers?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Murphy. I do not believe anybody can credibly suggest that this Government is anti-worker. In fact, there are many more workers in this country as a result of this Government's and successive governments' efforts to create jobs in every town, village and city throughout our island. To have workers, you need to have jobs. There are many more people in employment. Many of us remember days in this House where the biggest challenge being raised on Leaders' Questions and at every other opportunity was that people could not get a job in Ireland. There were very high unemployment rates. We have worked extremely hard to get to a much better place, to get to a place of effective full employment. That is something we should never take for granted. We cannot be complacent about that. We have to work day in, day out to make sure that businesses remain viable. I do not know whether the Deputy was directly quoting people but language about sweeties and all that sort of stuff is just utterly offensive to young people who work bloody hard and play a very good role in so many parts of our economy.

I also know that many of the businesses they disproportionately work in, often part time, often during college and the likes, are businesses that are to the pin of their collar in trying to keep the doors open. I challenge the Deputy to call into a café, hotel or restaurant in his constituency, as I am sure he does. I am sure he will hear from them the challenges they face in meeting the pay bill. I am sure he will see in cafés throughout the country, as I do sometimes, reduced opening hours. When you talk to an employer one of the reasons they will cite is the fact of trying to keep down the cost.

One of the things that the Government is collectively doing across parties and across the Independents, with the Minister, Deputy Burke, is looking at the whole issue of how we can help businesses with the cost of doing business. That is against a backdrop not of wage suppression, which the Deputy referenced but is simply not the case, but of a minimum wage that is increasing year on year and that will increase again no doubt in the year ahead and years ahead, and that has increased by 33% over the past five years. It is now the second-highest minimum wage rate in Europe. I accept this was not always the case in recent years with very high inflation but we are back now, thankfully, in a position where wage growth is exceeding inflation and exceeding it effectively. In other words, the extra money people are getting in wages is now outstripping any increases in the cost of living.

It is wrong to say the Dáil voted for this. The Dáil allowed a timed amendment for a Bill to progress on Second Stage. To people who follow these matters, that is not the same as saying the Dáil passed a law in relation to this. There is no suppression of a decision in relation to that. The Minister has outlined the process he is taking. However, he has also outlined very honestly, as he should, that he is trying to get a balance right to make sure that young people throughout Ireland have access to employment, and that the companies and businesses they are working in can keep their own doors open. Of course, we will continue to keep these issues under review. There are many ways we are helping young people with their own cost of living, with their educational opportunities, with the reduction in college fees and the like. We want to continue on that positive trajectory.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I do not think it is credible to suggest that this Government is anything other than anti-worker. Look at its actions in just the past few weeks - the delay of a promised extension of sick leave. I remember debating the sick leave legislation here. I remember us saying the extension of time should be in the legislation and the Government saying, “We do not need to write it in, but do not worry, we will extend it.” The Government is delaying the introduction of a promised living wage and now is standing over a situation of legalised super-exploitation of young people. The Tánaiste is saying it is okay for workers under the age of 20 who are doing the same work as colleagues beside them to be paid less than the minimum wage. I have no problem going into cafés, restaurants or shops in my constituency and saying, “It is not okay to pay people less than the minimum wage.” Surely the Government should be in a position to do that. How long is this delay going to be? The justification that is being given for continuing with this super-exploitation of young people is not legitimate. The Low Pay Commission looked at it and said it would not stand up, it does not amount to a legitimate aim and would therefore not be legal under the EU directive on adequate minimum wages that if you have exceptions, they need to be in pursuit of a legitimate aim and that pursuance of cost savings for employers does not count as that. That is clearly the agenda the Tánaiste is setting out.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is not that anybody is breaching the minimum wage; it is that we have a tiered system of minimum wage in this country. The Deputy and I have different views on that but people are following the minimum wage. It is just tiered and applies differently to different people in different age brackets. That is the system that we have had in place. After the Deputy goes into that café and outlines his view to the café owner and goes back to his job as a TD, the café owner is left having to pay the bill and having to think about how they are going to keep the doors open and continue.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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The young person has to pay the bill as well. What about them?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We support young people in so many ways. I found myself having to shout at the radio the other day about broken promises in relation to statutory sick pay. Read the Fine Gael manifesto. We were very clear during the general election in relation to five days of statutory sick pay. It is there; it is in black and white. We made it clear to people. There was no statutory sick pay scheme two years ago. There is now. There will be auto-enrolment in terms of pension provision from next January, thanks to the work of this Government. We are moving towards a living wage. We have the second-highest minimum wage in Europe. It has risen by more than 33% over the past five years. We are reducing childcare costs. We have taken measures in relation to hot school meals, school books, reducing college fees and, crucially, we have done something really important, that is, we have created jobs, providing people with employment across the length and breadth of this country. That should never be taken for granted.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Before we move to Deputy O'Donoghue, I want to acknowledge the family members of Deputy Brian Brennan from the Wicklow-Wexford constituency, who are here in the Public Gallery on this special day for his mother, Ann, who is 91-years-of-age. They are all very welcome. I hope they enjoy their day.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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On International Workers' Day, I will talk about speed limits. I will give a few figures because I like figures. There are 3.2 million vehicles in this country. There are 5,413 km of national roads; 2,696 km of national secondary roads; 13,122 km of regional roads; and 81,293 km of local roads.

The Government has reduced the speed limit on local roads to 60 km/h. Some of these roads are 6 m wide. Rather than allow local authorities to reduce speed limits on roads that are unsafe or, for example, only 3 m wide, the Government implemented a blanket ban across all local roads. There are 81,293 km of road to which the 60 km/h speed limit applies. How do we break this down into brass tacks? I have worked out the average. There are 3.2 million vehicles that use local roads. Even if we reduced that by 50%, which is 1.5 million, those vehicles will use 17 extra gallons of fuel on the basis of the mileage they would do. It would be 24,000 miles in a diesel car and 17,000 in a petrol vehicle, and they would burn 17 extra gallons of fuel. At the same time, we are increasing the carbon tax.

In the context of Europe, Ireland is going to have to pay fines for not meeting our carbon emissions targets. We are taxing people more by reducing the speed limits in areas where they can actually drive at decent speeds. People travelling across the country in their cars are doing so in fourth gear. I have checked the averages of all the cars across the country, and people are travelling in fourth gear along the 81,293 km of road to which I refer. These are five- and six-speed cars, and even automatic seven-speed vehicles. It is fourth or fifth gear in a seven-speed car and fourth gear in a car with a five- or six-speed gearbox. That means more fuel being burnt and more emissions, and the Government is increasing carbon tax.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is saving lives.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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That is what I am looking at.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is saving lives.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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It is not saving lives. The Minister is stating that putting a speed limit of 60 km/h on roads that are not safe is saving lives. Does she realise what 6 m is? It is only the distance from where I am standing to where the Tánaiste is sitting. That is the width of the roads I am talking about. The Government has imposed a blanket speed limit on local roads across the country. I ask that we reduce speed limits on roads that are unsafe and impose appropriate speed limits on roads that are safe. The Government has just done it across the board.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I was taking in a lot of figures there; I appreciate that the Deputy has done a lot of work on this. The purpose of the Deputy's question is largely around the issue of carbon tax. On the issue of speed limits, it is about trying to get it right. It is about recognising - we all share this view - that far too many people die on Irish roads. Being very honest, the progress we had made is now at best stalled; in recent years, we have gone backwards. We all know and think about far too many tables that have empty seats around them. The speed limit issue is about trying to get that right, because speed kills. As a politician, I like to rely on the expert advice and input of the likes of the Road Safety Authority in terms of how we get this right. However, it is important that we empower local authorities to deal with local roads. They sometimes have the necessary degree of local knowledge that allows them to recognise which roads are safe and can have a positive input.

In the context of carbon tax, we in this country have to be very honest about the climate debate. We have a huge amount of work to do to get both our country and Europe to where they need to be when it comes to climate action. One small part of the overall work that needs to be done relates to carbon tax and what that revenue raised by means of this tax is used for. The Deputy contacts Ministers on behalf of his constituents in Limerick asking about the fuel allowance and retrofitting. I am pleased to say that much of the money that is collected through the carbon tax is now going back into those areas. We are trying to make sure that there is fairness to this. One example in this regard relates to the Department of the Minister, Deputy Calleary, where a great deal of the money being used to fund the expansion of the fuel allowance comes from carbon tax. Sometimes, people wonder where the money they pay in carbon tax goes. It is bring used to try to ensure that those most in need of keeping warm - thankfully, we are having a nice day today - can do so. It is about also making sure from a climate point of view that we make it easier for people to meet the cost of retrofitting their homes.

We have a fundamental policy disagreement on this, and I recognise that upfront. The Government has been very clear in relation to the Climate Change Advisory Council recommendation and the recommendations of the scientific experts who feed into it. We use climate tax as one of a number of measures to try to get Ireland to where it needs to be in relation to climate action.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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I thank the Tánaiste. I am glad he said that local authorities should have had a part to play in this.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I know it.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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They did not have a part to play previously. I have asked that they should make decisions on the speed limits that should apply on roads are safe and those that are not safe. Some 89% of the vehicles in this country use either petrol or diesel. How many of those over there drive petrol or diesel cars? Be honest. Some 89% of the vehicles in Ireland use either petrol or diesel, which means that 89% of those who are being overtaxed are the working people the Government talks about in the context of the minimum wage. They are already being overtaxed, but the Government is now putting another liability on them in the form of local road tax. The Government is taxing the same people it is trying to help.

I am asking for common sense. Common sense means allowing local authorities to have responsibility for deciding the speed limits that should apply on local roads. This would mean that we would have a tiered system. The Road Safety Authority has to do its job, but local roads should be dealt with on the basis of local information.

The Government is overtaxing people who are already on the breadline and who cannot put food on the table. I am seeking pay parity for everyone. Remember, these are working people we are talking about.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I often say that we need more common sense in our politics. The problem is that common sense is a subjective concept. There is common sense in collecting revenue through a carbon tax and in specifically doing what we have committed to in our programme for Government. In a very honest and an upfront way, the programme for Government states that we are going to continue to use carbon tax revenues to fund: social welfare measures for those most in need; agri-environmental schemes to help our farmers - rather than lecturing or talking down to them - in terms of the adaptations they need to make to continue to produce some of the best food produce in the world; and retrofitting, in order to help make peoples' homes more environmentally friendly, warm and cheaper to heat. That is where we are trying to get to.

To be honest, when it comes to climate, there is not much low-hanging fruit. There is a climate emergency. The planet is on fire and we are trying to take pragmatic, practical measures to help to move the dial in respect of the changes we need to make in Ireland.