Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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104. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the measures she is taking to ensure children are protected and safe in the online world while at school; if she will acknowledge that €9 million phone pouches are an expensive distraction and that a more comprehensive response is required; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [16979/25]

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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What measures is the Minister taking to ensure children are protected and safe in the online world while at school, will she acknowledge that the €9 million phone pouches are an expensive distraction and that a more comprehensive response is required, and will she make a statement on the matter?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising what is a very important issue and something we all have a responsibility to try to deal with to support our young people, to educate them and to protect them insofar as possible from many of the challenges they face online. In respect of the mobile phones during school time, the pouches were just one of a number of measures that have been recommended and will be rolled out. It is not mandatory for any school but is an option for a school to take up. I have spoken to schools where this has been rolled out and the response from teachers and also from parents is that this is transformative for children in that they are not on their phones, not just during the school period and class times but also at break times, when we want them to be having fun with their friends and enjoying sport, drama, music or whatever else they are involved in. As I said, it is just one of a suite of measures that we all need to be engaged in.

In the Department of Education, as part of our digital strategy for schools, the focus is on ensuring that young people are supported so that they can use technology as a key part of their learning, but also that they are safe and well in doing it online. A key component of that is Webwise, the Irish Internet safety awareness centre, which is part of the Irish safer Internet centre. It supports teachers and parents but also supports students directly. It gives a sustained information and awareness strategy targeting school leaders, teachers, parents and children themselves. It develops and disseminates resources that help teachers integrate digital citizenship across their different platforms.

For example, there are resources such as Be in Ctrl, a campaign on online exploitation and sexual coercion, and Lockers, a resource for post-primary students dealing again with the sharing of explicit self-generated images of minors. There is engagement around Coco's Law, a law I introduced, which bans the sharing of intimate images, and Up2Us, a campaign focused on creating awareness in the prevention of online bullying. There is a Webwise youth panel of 30 teenagers, who work with Webwise to ensure that what is being rolled out is appropriate. There are also changes to the social, personal and health education, SPHE, and the relationships and sexuality education, RSE, curricula. It is really important that when they are being rolled out, they are focused on the issues that young people are concerned with and an emphasis on online issues.

I will come back in on some of the other work that is being done.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. Children are being exposed to extreme violence, including sexual violence and pornography, and some social media platforms trade on hate and division. That has real implications where people are suggesting, and I do not disagree with them, that there is a very significant experiment with our children and policymakers are very often behind the curve. There is a challenge for all of us. I have quite a cynical view of voluntary codes and poorly accessed resources. I would be interested in the extent to which Webwise's resources are accessed and used because my sense is that it is not massive, and this also applies to the phone pouches.

We need a comprehensive response here and we need media literacy to be embedded in our education system, from the cradle to grave. The Minister is well placed to do this. There are good international examples, such as in Finland. We should absolutely be world leaders. We have lots of tech here and we should lead in this space.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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So much work is being done. I mentioned Webwise and the different programmes that are being rolled out. The change in the curriculum has taken a number of years but it is now being rolled out and will be mandatory for leaving cert students. The ban that has initially come into our primary schools is absolutely fantastic but we all have a role here. There is more that schools can do, such as through the ICT grant, which ensures that children are digitally literate. Yesterday, I was at a school in Trim where there is coding and programmes I certainly did not have access to when I was in school. Children are being taught in a way that shows them how they can benefit from technology, but we need to ensure that, embedded in that education, we are wise to the challenges they face.

As parents, we also have a role to play. I spoke to a primary school teacher last night whose school has banned mobile phones. It works very well, but he knows there are students in second class and upwards who have access to phones when they go home, be it a parent's phone or a sibling's phone that has been discarded, which they are able to use to access social media sites. We have to ensure that the education does not just stop in the classroom and that any of the programmes we are developing can be accessed not just by the teachers and students but also by the parents. That is so much of what is happening.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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We need specific timelines and measures because we can all agree in the round here, and I do not disagree with a word that the Minister has said, but what we need from the Government is action and implementation on this. For example, while this is not the Minister's responsibility, we have light-touch regulation and it needs to be improved, with age verification and recommender settings. Children, not much older than junior to senior infants, potentially have access to pornography in their pockets. That has to be tackled. In the area of education, it is about embedding critical thinking and media literacy, from the cradle to the grave. In Finland, they do it from preschool and they are at it for decades. That is something on which the Minister can personally take a lead. I would welcome working with her on that to transform this issue. Bans will go only so far, but we need to educate people as to the power of these devices.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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To outline the action to date, phones have been banned in schools, and in primary schools in particular, which is only right. Young people are still being educated through the reform of the RSE programme. On post primary, a directive was issued by the Minister for Education urging schools to have restrictive mobile phone use in place, and we can see that being implemented in many of the schools.

Most important, the new SPHE curriculum is going to be mandatory. While that focuses on everything from sexual health to other areas relating to bullying and everything else, online will be a key part of that. There is also a programme called-----

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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Some of that is already outdated.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The SPHE programme is being updated so everything will be up to date, and young people are being asked what is important to them and what they should be discussing. Only last week, I launched a new programme in arts, which has been taken up by about a third of schools at the post-primary level. This is an overall health and well-being programme that brings everything into one place. It can be accessed by teachers and students and there is peer-to-peer learning. Most important, parents can also access it. We know the impact mobile phones can have on young people's mental health, particularly where they are accessing the material the Deputy mentioned, such as violent pornography, bullying or other elements on social media. These are all the actions that have been taken, but I absolutely agree that we need to do more. We will all work together on that.