Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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93. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the total overruns in public infrastructural projects in each of the past five years. [15639/25]

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The previous Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Governments had a reputation for incinerating public money through wastefulness in public projects. We have numerous examples, from the Gucci bicycle shed to the WRC wall, to the national children's hospital, to the ventilators that never worked. The Minister of State, Deputy Moran, does not have that reputation and I think he could bring change to the Department. What cost overruns does the Department know about that the Minister has not told the public about yet?

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Securing value for money is a central priority for this Government and is at the heart of all decision making at every stage of a policy, project or programme's life cycle, and it should be. Delivering value for money is about securing the efficient and effective use of public resources in the pursuit of better public services, living standards and infrastructure for the people of Ireland. Achieving value for money is the responsibility of each Minister and Department spending public funds. The Accounting Officers of those Departments and offices are accountable to the Comptroller and Auditor General and their respective Oireachtas committees for that spending. Accounting Officers must ensure that capital projects for which they have statutory responsibility are managed and delivered effectively. The Accounting Officers must decide whether the processes in place in their Departments, offices or bodies are appropriate to ensure compliance with the infrastructure guidelines; the management of capital budgets overall; and the management of budgets at an individual project level.

In terms of its capital allocation, my Department has not had significant direct overruns. We have a responsibility for overall oversight and we are responsible for the infrastructure guidelines that replaced the public spending code and were published in December 2023, with an effective date of 1 January 2024. These set out value for money guidance for evaluating, planning and managing Exchequer-funded capital projects. The management and delivery of these must be done in the context of the allocation and the national frameworks, which is a key responsibility of each Department and Minister.

As part of the capital appraisal process for projects under the infrastructure guidelines, projects' sponsoring agents are asked to critically consider the schedule and cost implications of those projects, which is further developed as a project progresses through the approval gates and more information becomes available, for example, when a project moves from the preliminary phase to final business case before the awarding of a contract. This includes detailed financial and economic appraisal, sensitivity analysis, accounting for behavioural influences such as optimism bias as well as consideration of appropriate levels of contingency. I will elaborate more on the governance framework.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The process is clearly not working because we are coming down with cost overruns left, right and centre. One of the reasons for this is that the Government is allergic to accountability and has been for a long time. Even when answering a simple question here on the actual cost overruns over the past five years, this level of accountability is refused. The Minister has not even answered the question that was put on today's Question Paper.

Farmleigh House, for example, is another project we in Aontú have been researching. It was bought and refurbished for some €52 million. Over the past 24 years, it has received approximately 70 delegations that have stayed there. That is an average of three per year. Farmleigh House is empty for approximately 48 weeks a year. In the past ten years, only two delegations, on average, have visited annually. This means that it is costing some €750,000 per delegation. The house is empty for most of the year. This level of waste would not be acceptable in any other location in the country, yet it is allowed to happen under the Minister's watch.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I reject the Deputy's assertion that it is not a consideration; it categorically is. That is why we have put in place many of the governance frameworks around the major projects' advisory group. This has significant external evaluation and assurance processes and addresses the need for value for money in all elements of the infrastructure guidelines, which are published.

That is set out across a number of the frameworks that are submitted to Departments.

The Deputy referenced Farmleigh. A large number of visitors attend Farmleigh, which the Deputy will be aware of. Many of them are from in his constituency. I was there at the weekend when local artists availed of one of the facilities to showcase their local art. It is used for many cultural and other activities, which the Deputy recognised. A large number of visitors use it. I acknowledge that there is public concern about value for money on certain projects. I do not reject that as an issue. I will bring forward a memorandum to the Government in the coming weeks on value for money and it being a central consideration across the Government's frameworks. It is something I want to continue to assess in the context of the overall budgetary envelope we have.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Bureaucracy does not create accountability. Accountability is an issue that is created if there is a cost to an individual for making a mistake over and over again that costs the State. I very clearly asked what the total overruns in public infrastructure projects were. The accountability to the Dáil has not achieved an answer on that here and now. I also asked what overruns were happening in public projects at present that the public did not yet know about. It is important that we put this question in shining neon lights because the Department knows about cost overruns that it will not tell people about yet. That is a real problem for transparency and accountability.

We have a situation where 100 Dublin Bus electric buses did not move an inch because somebody forgot to put in a planning application for a charger. We also have a situation where €300 million has been spent on metro north and not one shovel has been put into the ground. People at home are so frustrated with the fact that their hard-earned taxpayers' money is being incinerated and is not achieving the public infrastructure they so badly need.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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That is very inflammatory language, to be frank.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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It is true.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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You have to balance that against the public service that is trying to deliver on broader policy objectives, such as decarbonising public transport,-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The buses did not move for 18 months.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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-----which is an important public good. You have to balance that against many public servants working in our transport system who want to ensure we advance a major capital project. There are issues with the systems around timelines, sequencing and the delays that happen in public projects, especially those relating to the planning system and the decision-making that happens in that regard. There is general frustration with that. In the infrastructure division we are establishing, we are providing much greater oversight so that we drive the acceleration and delivery of projects that have been outlined in plans for many years. People want to see the outworking and the completion of those projects.

I want to address the value for money concerns that are in the public domain. However, the Deputy's narrative does not give any balance in respect of delivery and things that are happening in the context of the envelope we have given to capital expenditure. It is fair that we should give more balance regarding the public servants who are trying to deliver value for money-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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No quibble with the public servants. It is the Government we have a quibble with.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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-----and trying to deliver on our broader social and public objectives when it comes to many areas of capital expenditure.