Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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13. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills given the programme for Government commitment to "continue to reduce the Student Contribution Fee over the lifetime of the Government to ease the financial burden on students and families at the start of each academic year, in a financially sustainable manner", to outline his Department's plans to reduce the student contribution fee; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14569/25]

Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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I ask what plans the Minister and his Department have to reduce the student contribution fee, given that the programme for Government commitment is to "continue to reduce the Student Contribution Fee over the lifetime of the Government to ease the financial burden on students and families at the start of each academic year". I am quite concerned about the Minister's comments on 15 March this year, where he said that it may not be the best use of public moneys. I am aware that two other Deputies have also asked this.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Kenny, and I will treat with the programme for Government commitments and the rest later. I would be interested to know whether the Deputy agreed with the rest of my comments in that article because I did talk about targeted supports. I talked about addressing the cost of education and improving access to education. I talked about the existing support schemes and whether they should be widened or revisited to ensure the net is cast exactly where it needs to be.

Are they even progressive supports, targeted at those most in need? I am not convinced that a universal measure, blanket-applied without any regard for means or indeed surplus means in some cases, is appropriate and a good use of public moneys. There are competing demands such as student accommodation, course provision, quality of education and the core training fund, or the core gap we have spoken about in other parliamentary questions. I would welcome any engagement on this topic around what priorities should be pursued and what the opportunity costs would be of prioritising some measures above others. That is a really important point.

My intention in dealing with this issue is to consult. No decisions have been made yet, and we are still in the early cycle of the budgetary process but it is important to have that debate. In that regard, I am holding an event next week where I will engage with student bodies, the universities, access officers and the representatives of different associations, including students' unions, taking their views on board in terms of understanding what the barriers are to access to education, what the costs associated with education are, and with regard to existing supports. We heard earlier that 143,000 students already benefit from the free fees initiative - almost every undergraduate, bar perhaps those in some private colleges and some repeat courses for people taking a second degree course. Some 66,600 students additionally benefit from that student contribution fee being paid in full or part. A very significant cohort of people is already receiving significant State support.

I understand the desire to continue to broaden that pool. My view is that we should do so in a targeted fashion that provides support and respects those most in need, as opposed to a blunt instrument which may not be the best use of those funds. I am open to discussion on it.

Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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When the SUSI grant is being made available, in terms of means, it is taking into account both parents and the individual. If a student has a part-time job outside of college, it is taking into account those means as well, so there is no encouragement there for a student to have a part-time job.

I am quite concerned at the lack of communication between the Minister and the Tánaiste. On 11 November, the Tánaiste stated that a huge priority of his was to abolish student fees. Less than four months later, the Minister on 15 March stated that it is not the best use of public moneys. I would be quite concerned at that.

I met with the USI, of which my colleague, Senator Laura Harmon, was a former president. There are serious issues with regard to housing. I will give the Minister an example. In Cork, we have purpose-built accommodation for 1,534. We have 38,000 students in Cork between UCC and MTU. The average rent for a house in Cork right now is more than €2,000. That is one example of what the Minister can tackle but I would be concerned at the wording from him and the Tánaiste.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. We are in a new Government; I am a new Minister. We have had an election. The outworking of that election is a coalition Government. Not every policy of every party is going to be fulfilled. No party won a majority.

Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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The programme for Government.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, the programme for Government will be honoured. The programme for Government commits to a reduction in the student contribution fee in a financially sustainable way, which I will do, of course. I am not going to renege on a programme for Government commitment. I am going to follow it fully but how do we do that? Is it abolition, as Deputy Boyd Barrett argues for? That is €1.5 billion every Government term. How many student accommodation beds could we build for €1.5 billion? How many courses could we provide, and how many more SUSI grants could we provide? What other ways could we usefully deploy that money? Would every recipient of that €1.5 billion be categorised as somebody in need? In a universal scheme, I think probably not. These are the conversations that we have to have. If we could even progress the measures which support those most in need and address access to education in a financially sustainable way, we will have these conversations. I am holding an event next week to start that conversation.

Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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I thank the Minister, and I appreciate that. The Minister has the opportunity to have the same impact the former Minister, Niamh Bhreathnach, had in 1995. He has that opportunity to make that same impact where, across all socioeconomic backgrounds, third level education was fully accessible because third level fees were abolished. The Minister could have that same impact the former Labour Party Minister, Niamh Bhreathnach, had. I am asking the Minister sincerely and I am absolutely willing to engage with him on this. It is about solutions ultimately. I hope the Minister is going to allow Deputies across the House to give him that opportunity, whether it is abolishing fees or perhaps looking into the means testing or increasing the threshold.

Aidan Farrelly (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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I am conscious of time, Deputy. We are just out of time. I will give the final word to the Minister before we move on to the next item.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Or indeed Donogh O'Malley or many others could be referenced in this debate. My party has always prized education and put it to the fore. Education is the bridge to all that we do as an economy and subsequently as a society because it is the private enterprise, created by a successful education system, that creates the public good and the resources that we then use to support the public good. Deputy Kenny touched on the many competing challenges and the many potential alternative pathways through this in his supplementary question. That is what I want to explore in the coming weeks. We are very early into the budget cycle, and I look forward to those discussions.