Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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123. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to increase the training intake capacity for An Garda Síochána; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12801/25]

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Further to the previous debate, I hope the Minister will accept what I consider to be an absolute fact and that is we now have a clear and ongoing crisis in respect of Garda numbers and in particular Garda visibility within our communities. That crisis will not be addressed unless we substantially increase the training uptake capacity for An Garda Síochána. What measures does the Minister intend to apply in order to achieve this?

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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It is important to remember we have civilianised much of the Garda force. At present, we have approximately 14,200 attested members of An Garda Síochána and approximately 3,500 civilian members who also work for the force.

In recent years, as a result of civilianising or using civilians for tasks that were previously performed by the gardaí, we have managed to get approximately 900 gardaí back out on front-line duties. This is one mechanism but we need to be smart in terms of ensuring we can get more attested gardaí out on the streets. We do not want to see them in offices or courtrooms; we want to see them out on the ground.

Regrettably, one of the consequences of having a very successful economy is it is hard to attract people into certain jobs. There is some change coming, however, in this regard. People are now becoming aware of the fulfilment they can get from a career within An Garda Síochána. As I mentioned in response to Deputy Cleere, the recruitment process that took place throughout February has been successful. A total of 6,700 people applied to An Garda Síochána, which is a good sign.

As I said earlier, on 10 March, 201 new recruits started in Templemore. That is the highest number we have seen since 2019 and is an indication we are getting numbers back up to what they can be. Templemore can take 225 recruits through each module and we could have four or five of them. Many gardaí can be trained in Templemore each year. I will also consider other mechanisms, however, and I have asked for a report from the Department in respect of how we can train gardaí elsewhere.

This is not in any way seeking to question or undermine the appropriateness of Templemore. That will always remain. However, we need to consider whether there are other mechanisms for training people within An Garda Síochána that do not require them to spend all that time in Templemore. They are issues I am considering. However, I am open to any innovative ideas Deputy Carthy has as to how we can get the numbers up because, as he knows, it is hard to recruit people. We need to get people into An Garda Síochána and I would encourage the Deputy, and in fairness I know he will do this, to try to encourage people to join because it is a fulfilling career.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It absolutely is. A career in An Garda Síochána has the potential to be a very fulfilling life experience. However, the difficulty is not people applying to join An Garda Síochána but, with due respect to the Minister, it is the intake capacity and the experience of some people who apply but who do not make it into Templemore - in other words, they have a negative experience which they convey to others that would in time prevent them from following suit. Some 750 recruits left Templemore in 2023. Last year, 2024, the number was 631. The strength of the force at the end of 2024 was just about 14,000 which is only 200 more than at the start of the year and 500 less than when Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael formally came into government in 2020.

I note that in recent weeks the Commissioner said that it will not be possible to meet the Government goal of 1,000 new members this year and it is likely to be as low as 800. The Minister is on record as saying that he wants to see an additional 5,000 gardaí by the end of this Dáil term. It is incumbent on him to say, given the current parameters, how the hell he is going to make that happen.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. I am conscious of the intake capacity into Templemore. As I said, if we can get 225 in each time, they would be very good numbers. Recently, we have been getting up to 201 and we are doing very well.

The Deputy mentioned the numbers of attestations for 2023 and 2024. The 2023 number was higher than 2024. That was because in 2023 there were five attestations as opposed to four in 2024. Sometimes there can be an alteration in figures because of the fact there were more attestations in a particular year.

I have said that my objective is, and it is in the programme for Government, to secure the recruitment of 5,000 gardaí during the course of this Government, over five years. It is an ambitious task. I am seeking to achieve it. Part of the method by which I am doing it is through the recruitment campaign. The first recruitment campaign has been a success. The second way I am seeking to do it is to try to encourage people to join. The third way we are seeking to do it is that we have improved the training stipend for gardaí when they are in Templemore. We have increased that and we will consider increasing it further. Many steps are being taken.

We also need to be honest. There are consequences to operating in an economy with full employment. People have lots of options. However, we have to get people into An Garda Síochána.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Government representatives have increasingly cited the increase in population as a rationale behind the increase in crime figures. For example, earlier this morning the Minister cited it as an explanation for the increase in the number of people offending while out on bail. Yet, we have a Government target that has 15,000 members of An Garda Síochána, a target that is nowhere near being met at the moment. Surely the Minister accepts that target is not enough considering the increase in population and what are very clear demands from communities all over the State, who do not see enough gardaí within their communities at present.

At some point, will the Minister give the Dáil a comprehensive report and update on the work of the Garda recruitment training capacity planning group? He mentioned some aspects of potentially expanding Templemore or changing the way it functions but have there been any real deliberations in terms of the potential of opening a second Garda training college? That is something that I think would be very appropriate and much needed.

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. I will deal with the last point first. A recruitment and training capacity group has been established to support the achievement of increased recruitment in An Garda Síochána. The group is due to report to me in mid-2025. It is looking at a range of issues, including how to ensure that there is the training capacity to meet the Government's ambitious recruitment targets for the next five years. One of the issues that I know it will look at is whether or not an alternative training college or institution would be of benefit in trying to get more gardaí in. That will, to a large extent, depend on the level of interest we get from members of the public seeking to join.

In regard to the Deputy's comments about the population, of course, that is going to require there to be greater policing. As the population increases and as we create more criminal offences here in this House, there needs to be greater numbers of gardaí. However, we also need to look at innovative methods. We should not underestimate the role being played by civilians within the force. For too many years, gardaí were doing jobs that could be done by civilians, such as HR, management and accounting jobs. Those are now being done by civilians. The benefit of getting civilians in to do these tasks is that we get more members of An Garda Síochána out on the streets. As I said, because of increased civilianisation over the past number of years, we have seen up to 900 gardaí get out onto front-line duties. That is the approach. We need to look at innovative measures and to try to recruit more numbers. I still have a target of 15,000 attested members in the force and a target of trying to recruit 5,000 members during the course of the Government.