David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The cost-of-living crisis has not gone away; far from it. Workers and families are still finding it very difficult to make ends meet. People face extortionate bills and prices right across the board and for many, it is never-ending. It is runaway rents, childcare fees that equate to the cost of a second mortgage, the cost of the weekly shop and insurance costs, but perhaps where households have come under the most pressure is when it comes to rip-off electricity and gas prices. In recent years families have been hammered by a barrage of sharp increases in energy costs. They have just gone up and up, to the point where households in this State pay the second-highest electricity prices in the EU.

This morning, unfortunately, there is more bad news for those households. An internal briefing document to the Government from the Department of energy and climate shows that the energy rip-off is going to continue for five more years. Workers and families will continue to face increased electricity and gas prices every single year for the next five years. As usual, big energy companies will enjoy more bumper profits while ordinary workers and families who are already under enormous pressure get squeezed even further. The report goes on to advise that households will need support from the Government to meet these hikes because they cannot take any more. As the briefing to the Government notes, gas bills are already 90% higher today than they were at the start of the crisis and electricity bills are 61% higher. What does that mean for people's pockets? It means that, on average, people are paying a whopping €1,779 per year for electricity and €1,503 per year for gas. Is it any wonder that families in Ireland are being forced into energy poverty? We have hundreds of thousands of families in arrears. Let that sink in. What does that tell the Minister and the Government? It tells me and many people watching that people are finding it harder and harder to pay these extortionate prices. How on earth are people supposed to afford the increases that are coming down the tracks? The Minister needs to answer that question. The Government needs to answer that question because there are struggling families the length and breadth of this country in despair this morning. They do not have the answer and they certainly do not have the means to pay for more increases.

Incredibly, this briefing flagging further rip-off hikes in energy bills and calling for Government supports for households was provided to the Government in January. Yet, the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Chambers, came out last month and announced to those same struggling families that there would be no more energy credits, despite being briefed that energy bills would continue to increase over the next five years. That is deeply cynical. I talk to people every day in my constituency, as I am sure many Members do, who tell me that they cannot keep up with their bills, their lives are getting tougher, and they are struggling to get by every single day and every single month. They are doing their best but they need support. I am sure everybody in this House meets people with similar experiences. Their concerns matter. Their lives and their worries matter.

The Government cannot keep talking about what it has done in the past, which is what it reaches for when we raise these very serious issues. People are being hit by these bills now, today, and it is hurting them, big time. If they are facing long-term energy price hikes then they need long-term support. Does the Minister now accept that the Government has to step up to the plate? Will it continue to provide support for people to meet their energy bills? Will the Minister assure householders today that the Government will come forward with measures that will provide relief to all of those families who are in desperate situations?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government and all of my colleagues on this side of the House absolutely understand the consequences of the uncertainty of the world that we are now in and what that means for households and businesses. We see a world that has become more dangerous, more volatile and full of uncertainty. We on this side of the House are absolutely aware of the concern and anxiety that is causing for many in our country, whether that be small businesses trying to keep jobs or householders worried about whether they will be able to pay their bills and keep their homes in the future. I see that in the eyes of my constituents. All of us see that in the engagements that we have with those we serve across the length and breadth of our country.

This, of course, is most manifest in the cost of living and the impact that increased bills is having on very many at the moment. In terms of what the Government is currently doing in relation to this, we have to look at what we can do to prevent the impact of the cost of living on households and businesses and at the support we can make available in the future. What we are already doing, for example, includes the measures that we have put in place in relation to the retrofitting of homes. A sum of €230 million was invested in this scheme last year, helping over 7,000 homes. In the past two years we have seen 129,000 energy upgrades to homes across our country. This year's budget alone has €280 million set aside for the warmer homes scheme, which is an eleven-fold increase in funding in comparison with where we were a number of years ago.

In addition to what we can do to prevent and mitigate these kinds of cost increases, which will be difficult, we also want to look at the regulatory model that we have here in Ireland. That is why the Government has laid out its commitment to assessing the role of the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, within our country in terms of the role of affordability and competitiveness within its mandate.

As we face into these kinds of challenges, they will be made no easier and no less difficult for so many by adding an air of dishonesty or cynicism regarding what any Government or politician can do. It is precisely because we are in difficult and volatile times that the Government needs to do two things. First, we must recognise what that means for those we are privileged to serve, and we do. Second, the Government must look at what it can do in a way that can help, which is why the Minister, Deputy Chambers was right. The Minister and I, and the Government, are very clear on what we can do and what we want to do in this regard. I cannot stand here in front of the House today and say that the level of payments that we have made available over the last number of years can become the norm. Those payments were made available at a time in which inflation was at 5%, 10% and 15%. They were made available across a world that is very different from today. That level of payment is something that, if we begin to normalise it and say it will be available year after year, of itself runs the risk of creating difficulties for our country and economy in the years ahead. However, as the Minister, Deputy Chambers said only today, as we approach the budget and respond to the challenges that are there, we will look at what measures we can put in place that will be targeted and can offer support to those who need it the most. We want to be clear in recognising the great challenge and worry that exists within our country at the moment but, equally, we want to be honest and say that we cannot and will not do anything that adds to the risks that we may face but at the same time, we want to identify how we can and will help.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Undoubtedly there is volatility and uncertainly around the world. There is also volatility and uncertainty faced by so many families who are struck by, and who are dealing with, all of these increases, particularly in rising energy costs. The Minister has said he cannot take to his feet and say to people with all credibility that he will continue with the supports that were previously put in place. The Minister says this knowing that price increases are on the way. What he has not said is that during the course of the election campaign his party leader was well able to stand up and commit during the course of the campaign to cut electricity prices. During the election campaign we had one story for those struggling householders that we would cut energy costs and now he is coming in, knowing and being told by the experts that energy prices will increase, and saying that the supports for those families will be cut and rolled back. It is simply not good enough. What are people faced with? They are faced with five more years of increases.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Deputy.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They see bankers' bonuses increase, bumper profits for these companies, and a Government that will throw all of these families under a bus.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you Deputy Cullinane, your time is up.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Broken promises and strokes.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is interesting Deputy Cullinane should bring up the election because he is representing the most unsuccessful opposition party in Europe at present. It is the only opposition party that managed to go into an election at a time prices were high and lose votes.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have more TDs than you. You lost the election.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It lost votes. The reason it lost votes is because the people of Ireland knew the economic policies it was bringing forward were not credible.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Speak to the people.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You made promises.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If you promise everything, you are for nothing. You were seen through at that time.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are the third-largest party.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have noticed the trend that Sinn Féin has now, whereby it grows unhappy when I interrupt its heckling. This will not deter me-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You have not answered any of the questions.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and it will not deter the Government from doing two things-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Bluff and bluster.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----first, from calling out the fact that Sinn Féin's economic policies and solutions were seen through.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What are you going to do about it?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where would we be now if we had followed its policies and been entering into a scenario with a Government borrowing while jobs were at risk.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Minister.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are throwing families under the bus.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is what Sinn Féin offered. It was seen through.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I said, despite the best efforts of the Sinn Féin Opposition-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up, Minister.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----the Government will be honest in how we can help.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Minister, your time is up. Thank you.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What we will not do is do so-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you Minister. The time is up.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Pure guff is what we are listening to.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----at the expense of the honesty that is needed at a time when the country and Europe are facing new challenges and new risks.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Minister to respect the Chair. I call Deputy Sherlock.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have bluff and bluster by a Minister. That is what we have.

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

And 40,000 houses.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Deputies to have respect for their colleague.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I hope the Minister and I can agree we need more GP care in this country and, in particular, in Dublin's north inner city in the constituency we are both elected to represent. My question to the Minister today is what he is going to do as Minister for Finance to stave off the closure of the GP Care For All practice in Summerhill in Dublin 1. As he and I know, this GP care practice is run by a medical charity. It directly employs GPs because no one else has been willing to set up a GP practice there. This is because the partnership model of privately owned GP practices would not work there.

The double taxation issue with regard to the GP practice arose in early 2024. It has already been well aired. The reality is that in 2025 we have had no progress. We have had unworkable solutions from the Department of Health. Two of these solutions were vetoed by the HSE. We have a farcical situation whereby the HSE has paid for legal and accountancy advice to be given to the Department of Finance and we have heard nothing back from the Minister's Department, the Department which instigated this mess in the first place.

Last November, in the middle of the election campaign, the former Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, went on RTÉ's "Prime Time" and said there was no way we would let this practice close. He said not only would it not close but that it would be used as a pilot project and a practice would be opened in Finglas. What is happening here? The five GPs tell us they cannot stay open past June if the double income tax payment issue is not resolved. If it does close, the impact will be devastating, and not only for the 2,600 patients in the practice. This is not just about Summerhill. It is about Finglas, where there are 14 GPs on the GMS schemes in east Finglas and no GP in west Finglas. It is about the dire shortages we see throughout the country in terms of timely access to GP care. It is about the impact of these shortages, including delayed diagnosis, the deterioration of people's conditions, increased hospitalisations and premature deaths.

The reason we have these shortages is the private system of GP care in Ireland. Time and again when we speak to GP trainees they tell us they want to work as clinicians and do not want to set up businesses. At present, the only way we can ensure GP care in some of the most socially deprived parts of our communities is for the HSE to recruit directly or to let medical charities continue in operation. We need to join the dots. Even The Lancet this week pronounced on how we need to change. It devoted an editorial in its March edition on how Ireland is an outlier with a private system of GP care, how our inaccessible primary care system places tremendous strain on hospitals and how this is a political choice.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Deputy.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have to say this is a double taxation issue and the buck stops with the Minister for Finance.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Deputy. The time is up.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Minister what he is going to do to save this medical charity and other medical charities throughout the country.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Sherlock for raising an issue with which I am familiar. In particular I recognise the work that GP Care For All has done, and the person at the heart of it, Amanda Farrelly. I was hoping to meet them myself tomorrow but another Government commitment has got in the way. I am well aware of the importance of the work they do and the value of the service. While I very much welcome and acknowledge Deputy Sherlock's right to raise this here, making points such as that the Department of Finance is at the heart of this mess does a disservice to the complexity of the issue. I hope a bipartisan approach to try to correct it can play a role.

I know Deputy Sherlock is aware the HSE wants to recruit GPs who can work directly for the public service. I know she is aware of changes that have already been made to tax legislation to try to deal with this issue. Unfortunately, changes that were made by my predecessor, Deputy Chambers, to deal with an issue that had been raised have not made the progress we had hoped. I hope and know Deputy Sherlock is aware of how much work has gone on in the Department of Health and the Ministry of Finance to try to identify options for dealing with this issue, which so far have not yet had the success we would want.

The very heart of this issue, as Deputy Sherlock well knows, is the relationship that is in place from a contractual perspective between GPs and the HSE, which goes back to legislation from 1970, and the tax consequences of this which mean that, as a matter of law, income under a GMS contract belongs to the GP who entered into the contract with the HSE. This assessment was confirmed by the Tax Appeals Commission's determination in January 2022. This is the background to the issue.

There are officials and politicians of goodwill who have worked to try to find a way of resolving this. I, as the Minister for Finance, in conjunction with my colleague the Minister for Health will continue to do what we can to try to make progress on this issue. If goodwill alone could have solved this issue it would have happened and Deputy Sherlock knows this is the case. She knows work has happened on it. I and the Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, will prioritise this issue. We will look at the options that are there. Certainly from a tax perspective I will engage on this issue and see whether steps can be put in place. I look at the progress we have made in opening a primary care centre in Summerhill, what it means for those on Sean O'Casey Avenue and in the surrounding communities and the difference it is making from a health perspective. I look at the great work these GPs are doing and Deputy Sherlock is raising this issue on their behalf. I know the impact and the role they play in supporting the health of their patients.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Minister.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will do our very best on this issue and I thank Deputy Sherlock for raising it.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister. There is obviously goodwill on all our parts towards the practice but what I am not hearing today is a sense of urgency with regard to this situation. The chair and the practice manager are in the Public Gallery and they are waiting to hear answers from the Minister. The reality is that the 2,600 patients in the practice include some of the most vulnerable people in our community, as the Minister and I know. The practice is turning away ten to 15 patients per day. The stalemate at present is preventing the opening of a further list in this community. With regard to the plans in Finglas and other parts of the country, there are people who are not accessing GP care at all. I ask the Minister to bring a sense of urgency to this.

The reality, as we understand it, is that the changes instigated in the 2023 Act were designed to try to tackle corporates taking over private GP practices. As I understand it, they have found a loophole, and yet the people who should not be affected by these medical charities are being affected. That is wrong.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Sherlock knows we are treating this issue with urgency. She knows that. She knows the Minister is and she has acknowledged that to me. She knows we are working on it. The Deputy does the issue a disservice by suggesting otherwise. I ask her to please acknowledge, as I have done, that if this was an issue that was simple and that could easily be dealt with, we would already have done so.

We have acknowledged that this is a complex issue. Unfortunately, that complexity means that a group of deeply committed healthcare professionals, who have decided to provide services in communities that the Deputy and I are lucky enough to represent, are now facing the vista of them not being able to continue that work, and what is suffering or could suffer from that is the health of those we are doing our best to stand by.

What I have done is outline the work that has already happened with regard to this, which I know the Deputy is aware of. We have put in place different options to try to resolve the issue but I know they are not leading to the outcome that I want. If I was in a position to outline a detailed solution to this today, that detailed solution would now be implemented, and what we will do is continue to work on this issue and do our best to find a solution to it.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I raise the issue of staffing of children's disability network teams across the country. I have replies here from the HSE that say between 22% and 29% of posts are vacant. In Laois, I can tell the Minister that there are posts where there is 100% vacancy and 67% vacancy.

In Laois, there is a chronic situation regarding staffing. The figures for network 12, which covers most of the county, are absolutely shocking. I will give the Minister a flavour of what they are. Occupational therapy is 33% staffed and 67% vacant. Speech and language is 46% staffed. Physiotherapy is 50%, and these are the three critical disciplines, as I understand it, for children who are on the autism spectrum. If you go down to therapy assistants, there are zero levels of staffing. Dietetics, zero. Behaviour therapists, incredibly, are zero.

I raise this with the Minister on behalf of parents who are at their wits' end on this issue. For children who badly need services and who have autism, ADHD, dyspraxia or a range of other disabilities, the services are not there. These children are missing out on assessments, therapies and, crucially, on care at a crucial stage in their development. We all know that children with special needs require the early interventions. Early intervention equals better outcomes but late or no interventions lead to huge problems later in life. This can cause huge problems for families and children do not go on to live the full lives they should. It is putting enormous pressure on families, so parents, including those who cannot afford it, are going private for assessment and in some cases are borrowing thousands of euro. Sometimes that is from the credit union or from family and friends but sometimes it is from moneylenders.

Voluntary organisations such as Laois Offaly Families for Autism try to plug the gap. A voluntary organisation tried to plug the gap for some families and provide whatever services they could out of their limited resources but they can only do a small percentage of what is needed, so there are gaps in services. This is not a new problem. The problem is older than this House, or the time I am in this House, I should say, and going back to when I was a county councillor. This problem has been raised with me for the last nearly three decades, way back into the 1990s.

A particular problem in Laois is that there is only a third of OT posts filled, with some of the other ones outlined, and some posts have no staffing whatsoever. I know it cannot be fixed overnight, and it means increasing the pipeline. What is being done by Government to increase the workforce supply pipeline? We cannot flick a switch, I understand that.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. As he began his contribution, I will begin mine by acknowledging the huge anxiety and distress that families can face when young girls and boys with additional needs need additional support and have various conditions that we want to make a difference to. We see what that does to them for their start in life, and what it does to their families, their mams and dads, who are trying to get the support they want to give to their son and daughter when they know they need it.

I also recognise, as the Deputy has done, those voluntary organisations and service providers outside of the State that play a very valuable role in supporting the State and those families who need the help we all want to see them get. I also appreciate the Deputy's honesty in acknowledging that despite the importance of this issue - and it is one we are doing our best to make a difference to - it is going to take time when time is short for those young girls and boys who need the help we want to give them.

To directly answer the Deputy's question around what the Government is doing on this, we are doing three particular things. First, at a political level, it is the reason the Taoiseach is chairing a Cabinet subcommittee on the issue of disability. All of us meet those families, children and their parents, and we see at first hand what that means to their journey in life. We want to better co-ordinate the resources that the State is making available, and through our budgets build on the progress we have made recently from a funding and recruitment perspective. The Taoiseach has decided to chair a Cabinet group to look at how we can do that.

Second, we are looking at what we can do from a supply perspective to ensure that we have those in our universities and places of higher learning who, in turn, can become the very therapists that we need. The Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, and in fact all of the Ministers here, are working on this issue. What we are seeing in so many parts of the world is a demand for these therapists and healthcare professionals, and it is why the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, the now Tánaiste and my colleagues here have looked at what we can do in our universities to ensure the supply of these professionals is progressing. That is under way.

Finally, and most importantly from a recruitment perspective, we are making efforts in this area. We know we need more therapists and healthcare professionals but we have seen, for example, 272 more healthcare professionals in this area now, and an overall increase in the numbers working in that broad area. It is the reason we are putting more therapists into our schools, and it is the reason we are looking at what measures we can put in our schools early in the educational journey to make sure this support is provided at a time it is most urgently needed.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for his reply. While there are moves afoot, it needs to be at a scale and a pace to match the demand that is there.

The HSE states in one of its replies to me that there is an apprenticeship programme for social workers. Can there be apprenticeship programmes for other disciplines? Maybe that cannot be done but that is possibly one area that could be used.

We agree that the current situation cannot continue. We have to expand what is there. However, on the way home last night at 9.30 p.m. on the local radio, I heard an advertisement from a private company seeking people in these disciplines and are recruiting them. There is a huge problem there with retention in the HSE. The Minister is right about increasing the supply because obviously that has to happen.

On training places, I mentioned apprenticeships. That may not be appropriate for some of those disciplines because it may be required at a different level. I do not know the ins and outs of that but where apprenticeships can be used, can we look at doing that and increasing the supply? This year, with the new academic year, can we further increase the places in universities in those disciplines?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy again for raising the issue. I can make the case to him that the vacancy rate within these healthcare professions has decreased. It has decreased from 29% in 2023 to 21% in 2024, and that is an improvement, but we have so much further to go because we know the level of human need that is there. We know we need to be helping families and the children they love so much in a better way than is happening at the moment. I can make the case for how much more money we are spending. I can make the case that my colleagues are giving this all the priority they can. I could point to how many more healthcare professionals we have there. We need to continue with this and we will.

Going to the further important point the Deputy made, he made the point regarding whether we can put in place staff to assist these therapists and their healthcare professionals in doing their work. That is being done at the moment.

We have a budget of €500,000 in place to allow the hiring of a further 20 health and social care professional assistants or therapy assistants to help with this work being done. I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue today.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Ireland is facing a significant economic storm. The threatened tariff war with the United States could do immense damage to the current Irish economic model. Proposed changes to the US corporation tax could be catastrophic in terms of the Irish economy. Successive Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Governments have put all our economic eggs in bargain basement corporation taxes. For sure, FDI is good and needs to be nurtured and promoted, but FDI is more mobile than indigenous businesses and it could move with ease depending on the prevailing international economic winds. Ireland is currently facing into headwinds blowing against us from the United States. Tariffs will decimate the Irish economy. Irish exports to the United States, relative to other European counties, are far more. Last year, we exported €72 billion worth of goods, €58 billion of which were pharmaceuticals and chemicals. Under the threatened tariffs, these products could become much more expensive and demand could fall. Many of the businesses will not accept that fall in demand and could shift their production elsewhere.

Then there is the whole issue of corporation tax. A significant change to US corporation tax could actually gut the taxation system in this country. It would create a huge hole in our budget. It could lead to a situation where we have to cut public services, infrastructural spend and maybe even increase taxes in this State. Ireland is looking at, potentially, a fall in jobs, an increase in taxes and a fall in GDP. Ireland has not seen a potential economic shock such as this for at least two decades. The actual word "austerity" could be discussed in this Chamber again if the US proceeds with this particular tariff war.

One of the things that amazes me so much is that so little is being done regarding this potential economic existential threat by this Government. In fact, this bubble has spent more time fighting a speaking rights row with regard to Government-supporting TDs' speaking time than it has actually developing a system to help in this regard. I asked the Minister for Finance a couple of weeks ago what he had done and who he had engaged with in terms of senior US Administration to mitigate the potential damage as a result of the tariff war and the Minister said he has no responsibility to the Chamber with regard to answering such a question. I could not believe it. This morning, the Minister for Finance was on "Morning Ireland", in which he was asked what the Government's strategy is to deal with trying to persuade the US not to proceed with tariffs against Ireland and his answer, basically, was that we have to show that there is a reciprocal relationship of benefit between the two counties.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Correct.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is hardly enough in this regard.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Deputy.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am asking the Minister what engagement he has had with the senior US Administration? What engagement have the Taoiseach and Tánaiste had with the US Administration-----

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Allow the Minister to answer.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----with regard to trying to mitigate against the damage of a tariff war?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The veil has slipped for a second time when it comes to Aontú on jobs within our economy. It is not so long ago I was in this Chamber when Deputy Tóibín referred to people who were working for large employers as transitional jobs. Here today, the Deputy now referred to corporate tax profitability receipts as "bargain basement".

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is what it is.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I invite Deputy Tóibín to walk into the large employers for which many of his constituents work and tell them that the efforts that they are putting in are bargain basement and that the taxes their work is creating are bargain basement. I invite the Deputy to do a tour of the large employers across our country that have played such a critical role in paying the tax at a time we need it, and in the modernisation and creation of jobs within Ireland, and tell them that this is bargain basement. That is the Aontú agenda.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Minister answer the question that I asked today, not the question I asked two months ago, please?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is the Aontú agenda. That is your agenda, Deputy Tóibín. I hear it again and again. As the veil slips, it is also characterised by typical misinformation from the Deputy. I heard the Minister, Deputy Chambers, on "Morning Ireland" this morning. I heard him outline a number of different things, including the reality that we have to yet consider what the United States may do, and, in doing so, it is essential we make the case for trade that is mutually beneficial and that creates jobs and investment in America. The Minister also outlined the work the Government is doing, that he is central to, in understanding what the economic impact of the environment we are moving into could be, which he and I will jointly conclude with the stability programme update, the economic forecast that will be presented to the Government and the Oireachtas in a few weeks' time.

He also made the point. that I will repeat here today, that we are doing that in an environment in which there have never been more people at work in Ireland than there are today. There are 2.8 million people at work. I did not hear the Deputy refer to the unemployment figures that came out earlier in the week which indicated that the unemployment rate is nearly at its lowest ever in the history of Ireland or the fact that we have gone by a position of full employment. We are also in a position that we are running budget surpluses, the very budget surpluses the Deputy has always said, like his former colleagues in Sinn Féin, we should be spending day after day.

The Deputy concluded amidst his diatribe with one question to me regarding what kind of engagement I am having. I am engaging directly with the OECD, which is the key organisation from a tax perspective in this regard. I met its representatives last week regarding this. I have met them on two occasions in recent weeks. This Government, most notably through the engagement we will have with President Trump next week, will look at all ways and at all layers in which we can engage in what is indeed a great challenge to our country.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a point of amusement that the Minister's instinct is to get tribal every time an Opposition TD puts him under pressure.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Under pressure.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is incredible, when a straight question is asked regarding the engagement the Minister, the Minister for Justice, the Tánaiste or the Taoiseach have had with senior elements of the US Administration, in what is possibly one of the biggest existential economic threats to Ireland at the moment, that in the three or four minutes the Minister had to answer that, the summation of his response was "zero". At this moment in time, the Minister cannot tell me of any senior engagement between his Government and the senior US Administration, despite the fact that pharmaceuticals are a target of these potential tariffs, on which we are so heavily dependent, and despite the fact that our corporation tax as a country is more dependent on those sectors than any other country. It would create a massive hole in our budget if that corporation tax were taken.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Deputy. Your time is up.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Minister to leave the tribalism aside for one minute and answer the question directly if possible.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Leave the tribalism aside. That is a bit rich coming from the Deputy in this regard. He asked me the question regarding what engagement the Government, the Tánaiste has had-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

With the US.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----with the Secretary of State of the United States of America during the week and the fact the Taoiseach will meet President Trump next week. I have engaged with the Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bessent, through a G7 meeting that happened last week. I have met twice with the organisation that is, on a global level, involved in dealing with this issue. That is the engagement we have had. I invite the Deputy to go back. I am informed that international employers in 16 different companies in County Meath employ 3,047 people in the Deputy's constituency and county. Again, I extend the invitation to the Deputy. Go into those companies-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I said FDI in Ireland is good. I said FDI is positive.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Go into those companies and tell them-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister is arguing a point that nobody has made.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----that the tax receipts they are involved in generating are bargain basement and-----

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is about protecting FDI, Minister.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----perhaps he might tell them again that their jobs are transitional.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister is arguing a point that nobody has made.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The point is about protecting these jobs.