Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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24. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [5804/25]

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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25. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [5903/25]

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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26. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [6074/25]

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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27. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will next meet. [5756/25]

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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28. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [6491/25]

Aisling Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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29. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [6493/25]

Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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30. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disabilities will meet next. [7738/25]

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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31. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [7770/25]

Catherine Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
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32. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [7810/25]

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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33. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [7946/25]

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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34. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education and disability will meet next. [8320/25]

Erin McGreehan (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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35. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next.. [8485/25]

Tom Brabazon (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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36. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will next meet. [9245/25]

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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37. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on children and education will meet next. [9480/25]

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 24 to 37, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on children and education will oversee the implementation of programme for Government commitments in the areas of children and education with a special focus on child poverty and well-being. It will receive detailed reports on identified policy areas, such as child poverty, well-being and education. A separate Cabinet committee on disability has been established. The membership of the Cabinet committee on children and education comprises: the Taoiseach; the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister for Defence; the Minister for Finance; the Minister for public expenditure; the Minister for children; the Minister for Health; the Minister for Social Protection; the Minister for Education; and the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. It will meet quarterly and the first meeting of the Cabinet committee on children and education of the new Government will take place soon.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Today, Aontú received information from Tusla showing that during the first nine months of last year 70,000 children were referred to Tusla. That means that for the whole year it is likely 94,000 children were referred to Tusla, which is the highest figure on record. It is 30,000 more children than sat the leaving certificate last year. It is equivalent to all the children in Meath and Westmeath being referred to Tusla on an annual basis. It is an incredibly high figure. Nearly 70,000 of those referrals related to physical abuse, 4,000 related to sexual abuse and 4,000 related to neglect, while 43,000 referrals involved child welfare concerns. This is an issue Aontú raises every single year. The number is ballooning out of all proportion and there is very little research, debate or discussion in this Chamber about what is actually happening with children across the country. Most of the referrals were made by gardaí, social workers and teachers, but referrals were also made by probation officers, immigration officials, managers of direct provision centres, homeless accommodation staff and addiction counsellors. What will the Government do about this? What extra resources will be invested into Tusla to enable it to deal with this shocking increase in numbers? Will the Taoiseach meet foster carers, the residential care sector and EPIC to make sure there is proper investment in this area?

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise the issue of the need for a special school in Cork. Like many other public representatives in Cork, I welcomed the announcement in October, before the election, by the then Minister, Deputy Foley, that we would get a special school in Cork, albeit in an undisclosed location that was subject to negotiation. Fast forward five months and I know from talking to people on the ground that no progress has been made in acquiring a site for this building to open in September. No time is being allowed between now and then to refurbish the existing building. It cannot be delivered by next September. We gave people a commitment that a special school would open in September 2025 and I just cannot see at this point in time how it will be done. I ask that this matter be treated with urgency and that the Department of Education told to get its act together to source the building or the site and get on with delivering the special school.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I return to the issue of school-based therapies. I welcome that this will be rolled out in special schools in September. I would like to think these will be holistic therapies. Some families are worried they will just be school-based and it is vital that teachers, SNAs and parents are all made aware of what best practice is. At times, even technological back-up is absolutely vital and should not be left out. When do we move to school-based therapies being rolled out properly in the context of mainstream? I spoke about the October CDNT workforce report which stated there were nearly 530 whole-time equivalent CDNT positions unfilled last October. When will this report be published? Even allowing for having a plan and those spaces being filled, I would like to think this report could lay out what the actual need is.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Which report?

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The CDNT workforce report that was carried out in October. I imagine that, within it, there is an audit of what the need is and whether filling all of those positions will be enough. If we cannot do it, even with the best will and planning in the world, through the CDNTs and primary care, school will be the only place for this issue to be sorted out. We need to deal with this as soon as possible.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I wish to return to the issue of the recruitment of special needs assistants raised with the Taoiseach by my colleague, Deputy Eoghan Kenny, earlier. Budget 2024 provided for an extra 1,216 SNAs in the current school year. Are all those SNAs in place? Will the increase of 1,600 SNAs announced in the budget for this year in fact take effect? We are all still hearing of children who have a place in a school but cannot get access to the additional support they need in class because not enough SNAs have been provided. Will the situation improve this coming September in that any child who needs access to an SNA will have one?

Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise the issue of DEIS. The previous Government made huge inroads in modifying and overhauling DEIS but even more can be done. I will give an example of Shannon town in County Clare. There are five primary schools and two post-primary schools, all of which are within a few hundred yards of one another. Two of the schools have DEIS status but the rest do not. In a town such as Shannon, there is high level of transience, with many people renting. The most recent census, which gathered the data used by Pobal to classify DEIS schools, did not take account of the fact that there have been wars in Ukraine and Gaza, or of the transience of the rental market and the fluctuation in prices. There needs to be a better mechanism for assessing DEIS. It would be better to have an in-school census whereby a principal or board of management would file annually, or biannually perhaps, a profiling of their school in terms of socioeconomic deprivation, Travellers, children from other jurisdictions and children who have English as an additional language. I think there could be a better mechanism and ask that the Cabinet subcommittee would examine this. I congratulate the Leas-Cheann Comhairle on his election.

Aisling Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I know the issues of our children and young people and their education, special education and disability are of the utmost importance to the Taoiseach, as they are to me as a representative of the people of Meath West.

I look forward to that committee making progress. We need to keep moving forward on our policy, our legislation and our funding of these important areas. The situation is acute and urgent for some of our children. Every month that goes by reduces the chances of a positive outcome and can affect their qualify of life.

In Meath West there is a general lack of staff for the CDNTs that we have discussed today. The networks have had to turn away children and their families with challenging problems due to a lack of resources. I know of one child diagnosed with autism and ADHD at age four. Unfortunately, at age 11 he has not even been seen by the network yet. The only alternative is CAMHS, which generally does not see autistic children. As children like this approach puberty, all these challenges are amplified and become more profound and life-altering for them and their stressed-out, frustrated parents. We need to ensure the huge increases in funding allocated to health services are directed towards resourcing of networks like the CDNTs. This is the right thing to do to ensure CDNTs, CAMHS and general psychological services for young people are adequately resourced and equipped to support families in supporting their loved ones with difficulties.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I have met with special needs co-ordinators in Mayo and they have raised two serious issues with me. The first concerns students in mainstream classes with mild to moderate learning difficulties accessing the junior cycle level 2 learning programmes. These students required specialised special education needs teaching. However, the National Council for Special Education, under the auspices of the Department of Education, does not provide training in the level 2 learning programme to all mainstream teachers. Will the committee examine this?

Furthermore, the Department does not allocate specific teaching hours to school management to provide resources to enable these students to access their curriculum within the mainstream classes. These are and should be separate from or added to SEN hours under level 2 learning programme teaching. It is essential schools are allocated hours to provide specialised teaching for those accessing L2LP and L1LP within the mainstream classes. Will the Cabinet committee address those issues?

Catherine Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I raise the urgent need for a co-educational, non-denominational secondary school in Dublin 8. Dublin 8 is one of the fastest-growing areas in the country, with a young, diverse population. In fact, 62% of residents of Dublin 8 are not Catholic, yet almost all of the secondary schools in the area are Catholic and single sex. The Catholic Church has played an invaluable role in providing education in Dublin 8 for generations, particularly at times when no other options were available, and that contribution should always be recognised and respected. However, it is important we respect the wishes of parents today and many parents want a co-educational, non-denominational option for their children. At present, parents seeking an equality-based education are forced to leave the area despite clear population growth and a need for places. There is already an educate together primary school locally but no follow-on secondary school. Will the Government commit to providing a co-educational, non-denominational secondary school for Dublin 8 to reflect the community and ensure all families have real choice?

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I raise the research published today or yesterday by the ESRI, which shows the crucial role of the school completion programme in supporting student attendance and engagement and highlights staffing and funding challenges. Among the major issues highlighted is the lack of referral pathways into therapies. Will that be looked at with a view to potentially delivering school-based therapies? Second, there is the issue of funding. They are not yet back at pre-2008 levels. This is a hugely important programme and service. How will Government invest in it?

Tom Brabazon (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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I raise the issue of prefabs. Will they be discussed at the Cabinet committee? I have serious concerns about prefabs being used as long-term or even medium-term solutions for education provision. For example, in Gaelcholáiste Reachrann in my constituency pupils and teachers have been left sitting in prefabs for over 24 years. The new school has been at planning stage 3 for at least 12 months and there does not seem to be any progress. It is very frustrating. Belmayne educate together is a brand new school which has opened up down the road from it. The latter school started life in prefabs but has moved into its new school building, which is great. There is now a proposal to open a special school in the prefabs on that site. The educate together school has a plan to create a sensory garden, basketball court and running track where the prefabs are to be located, even though there is capacity within the school. The educate together school itself deals with special education also, so the whole thing seems to be counterintuitive and mixed up. The entire policy needs to be dealt with in a holistic rather than a piecemeal and reactive way. Will the Taoiseach commit to visiting the two schools in early course to see for himself the issues being dealt with by people?

Erin McGreehan (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to ask about a slightly different matter, namely, childcare provision. There are huge difficulties in the area, as the Taoiseach knows, and services are struggling with staff attrition, burn-out, compliance and regulations, while dealing with the impact of the many pay freezes and the introduction of the new childcare programme that may reduce their capacity to serve children in the long run. Services are at risk of losing their reputations. They are cutting costs and staff and I often find when I deal with childcare services that they are afraid it is to the detriment of what they are there to do, which is to look after children to the best of their ability and make sure those children are educated, cared for and have a good time in childcare.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the establishment of the Cabinet committee. It will do important work and no doubt its work will complement that of the child poverty and well-being programme in the Department of the Taoiseach.

There has never been a greater awareness of the importance of well-being and wellness in enabling learning and educational progress. I have found in my professional experience that teachers are outstanding advocates for the well-being and welfare of children.

I would ask the Cabinet committee to prioritise the reduction in the pupil-teacher ratio. The programme for Government sets out to reduce the ratio from the current 21:1 to 19:1. That would have a significant impact on school life and enable teachers to place greater focus on the well-being of children, particularly in the younger age groups where teachers play an important role in assessing children's well-being, welfare and educational ability. It is important the committee would focus on that area.

I echo the sentiments of my colleague, Deputy Crowe, on the DEIS programme. I welcome the initiative of a DEIS+ programme but we need to look at the assessment of schools for inclusion in the existing programme.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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There were quite a number of contributions there. Deputy Tóibín spoke first on the 70,000 referrals.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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In the first nine months of last year.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the first nine months of last year, and he is suggesting it will go to 94,000. That is an extraordinary number. I will have to drill down behind the numbers in terms of context and so on but it is very high. That is a broader societal issue as well and it shows Tusla has an enormous workload, to put it charitably. That is a huge impact. As the Deputy said, they are referred by a variety of professionals in the child welfare and childcare area, teachers, gardaí, probation officers and so on.

I do not know whether the foster care association has met with the Minister. I would give consideration to meeting with groups but would prefer if they met Ministers first to see if they can make progress. I am very mindful of the role of foster carers and the need to look after them and encourage more to participate in fostering children in need. I believe that is the most effective mechanism for children in need, on the front line of care or interacting with care agencies.

Deputy O'Sullivan raised a special school in Cork. I need the details of that. The most difficult thing for a school is acquiring a site.

It is easier said than done. Once you get the site, you can do an awful lot in terms of design. I will talk to the Deputy later, but we have to make efforts. I have seen schools turned around faster in the past.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North-Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is an existing-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is what I am saying, but again I need to know the details of it. I will certainly see what I can do to progress it.

Deputy Ó Murchú asked about school-based and holistic therapies. The initial phase would be special schools and that will take some time. I am hoping we can get it started this year. Mainstream schools will be some time after that, but we will see what we can do. A lot will depend on the estimates, budgets, recruitment and so on. We will have to dramatically increase the number of therapists in our third-level colleges as well. This has to be something that is planned and programmed for the long haul.

On the CDNT workforce report, I need to see it published. I do not know where it is right now.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It was meant to happen in January.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has mentioned it three times already, so I will find out where it is at.

Turning to Deputy Bacik, there has been a massive increase in the number of special needs assistants. I will follow through on the issues she has raised in terms of what has been provided.

I take Deputy Crowe's point on the census. I have seen this issue before in terms of how transience in rental accommodation can affect the demographic going into any school and it may not often be appreciated by the criteria. Let us be honest, the previous Minister increased DEIS hugely. You always have to target resources. If you get above a threshold then you are not targeting properly. The DEIS-plus will help us with some of the most difficult ones. There is an issue where some schools get designated and others in close proximity do not, but there are special issues the Deputy has mentioned that should be factored in like Ukraine, war or whatever.

Deputy Dempsey mentioned acute and urgent issues in terms of early intervention, CDNT issues and the need for increased funding. I acknowledge all the difficulties she outlined. They are true and we have significant issues there.

I will follow up Deputy Conway-Walsh's question about specific training at junior certificate level.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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And the extra hours.

Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, and schools’ allocations.

I will pursue Deputy Ardagh's question with the Minister seeing as she made a compelling case. If there is no second-level coeducational non-denominational school in Dublin 8, there should be. As she said, there is now a primary school so there is a feeder school for such a school. We should try to progress that. It is no different to Deputy O'Sullivan's point in that you need a site and some plan for it, or for some existing school to change over to a co-educational, non-denominational school.

Deputy O'Rourke asked about the school completion programme and the lack of referral pathways. I would like if that were wholly brought back within education. I pushed for that policy at the start of the previous Government. I established the embryonic form of school completion almost 20 years ago. It would be better if the entirety of that programme were in the Department of Education so all those issues can be dealt with.

Deputy Brabazon's issue was about prefabs. Some of my most enjoyable years were in prefabs, but I do not know it that was good or bad for my education. The Deputy's point is well made, however. It is frustrating for a new school building with plans for a sensory garden for prefabs to suddenly land. That is not what it is about. Prefabs are not meant to be long-term or short-term solutions anymore. If the Deputy brings the case to me, I will see if we can get some movement on it.

Deputy McGreehan raised the issue of childcare provision staff struggling. We have increased spending enormously in this area. The smaller providers are saying they have suffered a bit, particularly with the fees freeze and then the pressures on them in conforming. I will ask the Minister to engage with her on that specific issue. I take her point that some are saying they are cutting staff and cutting costs.

I could not agree more with Deputy John Connolly that teachers are in many cases advocates for well-being and wellness. He has experience of that. The programme for Government commits to the reduction of the pupil-teacher ratio. It is to be hoped we can pursue that, as we have done in recent years. It is now at historically low levels. We will continue to try to do that, because that will give great opportunities for teachers to engage with pupils specifically on the issues of wellness and the well-being of each individual pupil within the classroom.