Dáil debates
Tuesday, 4 March 2025
Ceisteanna - Questions
Departmental Strategies
3:50 pm
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the implementation of the well-being framework launched by his Department. [6307/25]
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the implementation of the well-being framework launched by his Department. [6429/25]
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the implementation of the well-being framework launched by his Department. [6432/25]
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the implementation of the well-being framework launched by his Department. [7362/25]
Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the implementation of the well-being framework launched by his Department. [9169/25]
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the implementation of the well-being framework launched by his Department. [9300/25]
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the implementation of the well-being framework launched by his Department. [9485/25]
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 7, inclusive, together.
Ireland's well-being framework is a Government initiative to measure progress and policy impact in Ireland in a more holistic way. The framework consists of 11 dimensions that reflect different aspects of well-being. It is supported by a dashboard hosted by the Central Statistics Office and composed of 35 indicators that bring together economic, social and environmental statistics in an integrated way. Each year, an Understanding Life in Ireland report is published, which assesses Ireland's well-being performance across these 35 indicators. An updated analysis will be published before the summer.
The 2024 assessment shows that Ireland's overall performance is positive, particularly in the areas of work and job quality, and social connections and community. Only one of the 11 dimensions, the environment, climate and biodiversity dimension, showed a negative performance. The analysis also highlights that there is more work to be done. In particular, there are some groups in our society for whom progress is unequal across multiple areas of well-being, including people with long-term illness or disability, single-parent households, households with lower incomes and households in rented accommodation.
To assist expenditure decisions, we continue to integrate the framework into the budgetary process. The well-being framework was featured at last year's national economic dialogue and as part of the summer economic statement. The well-being framework was also part of the analysis underpinning budget 2025. This included analysis of the dashboard in budget-day documentation and a paper showing how selected expenditure measures in budget 2025 are enhancing well-being, published by the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform.
Across government, Departments are working to use the well-being framework for policy development and decision-making. I believe the well-being framework is a useful tool which can help us to better understand the economic, social and environmental impact of policy decisions.
4:00 pm
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I want to ask the Taoiseach about the well-being of CIÉ pensioners. For decades, former CIÉ workers had their pension payments rise in line with wage increases. However, when the economic crash happened, CIÉ halted both pay and pension increases. While pay rises for current staff have been restored, pensioners have had their income frozen for over 16 years. This is leaving pensioners out of pocket following an unprecedented cost-of-living crisis. Independent actuarial analysis carried out by Willis Towers Watson found that the CIÉ pension scheme can award increases without impacting on its long-term sustainability. There is no reason these pensioners should not get increases and should be punished by austerity measures. Will the Taoiseach ensure that CIÉ pensioners who dedicated their lives to public service get the pension increases they deserve?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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It is hard to imagine a more impactful measure on the wellness of both people and the planet than insulating people's homes. I want to raise an incredible case in my constituency where a family is being threatened with prison for retrofitting and insulating their home. In 2018, Clive Ryan from Kilnamanagh received a Government grant from the SEAI to retrofit his home with external wall insulation. This is exactly the type of climate action that Government grants and Government policy are designed to incentivise. It is a clear win. It is a no-brainer for the householder who has reduced energy bills and for society as a whole because it benefits from lower carbon emissions and reduced air pollution. What happened next is that South Dublin County Council began serving planning notices on Mr. Ryan. He applied twice for planning retention and was denied it. He is now facing a €5,000 fine or a prison sentence if he does not remove it. Does the Taoiseach agree that external wall insulation should be exempt from planning permission?
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Work and job quality is one of the dimensions to the well-being framework. My party would have liked to see stronger commitments on workers' rights in the programme for Government. I want to raise a number of concerns around workers' rights with the Taoiseach.
We introduced a Labour Party Bill to provide for reproductive healthcare leave for women experiencing early pregnancy loss in the workplace. The Second Reading of our Bill was delayed until 18 January this year to allow the Government to develop its own proposals. Can the Taoiseach advise what the position is now? There is no commitment on this in the programme for Government but the previous Minister, Roderic O'Gorman, had commissioned research from the Department of equality to see if there was an evidence base for proceeding with the legislation.
Does the Taoiseach propose to row back on remote and flexible working arrangements for public servants? Will he confirm that any such move would be subject to consultation and agreement with trade unions?
Finally, can the Taoiseach confirm when the action plan for collective bargaining will be published?
Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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The well-being framework sets out the things that are important to us as a society as distinct from economic indicators such as GDP or inflation. It focuses, for example, on the quality of our housing, educational attainment, biodiversity and so much more. The aim is that it would steer funding priorities in the budget. On the climate front, for example, we are seeing stark warnings from the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council of up to €26 billion in fines coming down the tracks. It is recommending that we should spend the same money on action now instead of spending it on fines in the future. In the budget ahead, do we expect the well-being framework to steer funding into the quality of our housing, insulation and SEAI supports? As they are already a bottleneck for so many people, this area should be prioritised.
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I would like to deal with mental health well-being. I spoke previously to the Minister of State, Mary Butler, about the fact that we have to look at the Mental Health Bill. We have all come across issues with getting the required supports for people in absolute distress, including those who have been arrested under the Mental Health Act. When the Garda calls a doctor, the doctor will assess the situation on the basis of how he or she finds it and how the law produces the framework, but it is not always imperfect. I accept that clinicians have to make these decisions but there is definitely a lot that needs to be done. I support those who have spoken previously about the need for interim funding for SOSAD. While I accept what the Minister of State said about the service level agreement, it is about interim funding and keeping the doors open. I literally just took a call in relation to someone in real distress and dealt with the Minister of State on it. We all want to get a solution for people in these circumstances.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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I want to ask the Taoiseach about the impact on wellness of an increased militaristic policy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry?
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Militaristic policy. It is proposed that Ireland's budget for military spending will eventually increase from €1.3 billion to €3 billion. The decision to drop the triple lock is coming at the expense of people on lower incomes, education, disability, housing, refuges for domestic violence, etc. Earlier, the Taoiseach bemoaned that we are living in a world that is becoming increasingly brutal, militaristic, violent and nakedly imperialistic. In that context, I ask the Taoiseach once again - this is our last chance - if he still intends to visit and greet Donald Trump, the chief proponent of this direction of the world right now, on St. Patrick's Day, thereby giving him a photo opportunity. This is a public bully who humiliated Zelenskyy, as we saw, over the weekend. He is a chauvinist. He has just freed two rapists.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Deputy is over time.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Is this good for wellness?
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Mental and physical health is one of the strands considered in the Government's well-being framework analysis. In counties Cavan, Louth, Laois, Meath and Monaghan, the well-being of people and our communities will be negatively impacted by the recent downgrading of the services of SOSAD Ireland. They have been downgraded because of a lack of sustainable funding. The potential for this had been well telegraphed and communicated to the HSE well in advance of the new year. It is now March. I am asking the Taoiseach to intervene to protect these vital services for our communities.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Cian O'Callaghan raised the issue of the CIÉ pensioners. I take on board the Deputy's point that the actuaries are saying it would not impact on the scheme itself if the pensions continued to match salary increases. I will talk to the Minister with a view to getting an assessment of it. I am conscious of the issue. I want to see other ways to make progress on this issue. I will come back to the Deputy.
I am not familiar with the specific issue raised by Deputy Paul Murphy. I do not understand why the local authority is seeking planning permission. Was there a particular nature to the insulation?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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It was just regular. Then they said that he needed planning permission but he does not have it, and he must pay a fine or take it off.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Did he apply for retention?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Yes, but so far it has been denied. It has not been accepted.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will examine the details and try to get back to the Deputy. If he can send me the background to the case, we will pursue it. We want people to insulate. We do not want people to be penalised for insulation.
Deputy Bacik raised workers' rights and the reproductive healthcare leave Bill. I will have to check where the research commissioned by the previous Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, is.
Remote and flexible working is kept under constant review. Due to the nature of different jobs and the nature of work in different Departments, there cannot be a uniform policy across the board. I will check with the Department of public expenditure what is happening on that front.
Deputy Aindrias Moynihan raised the issue of the well-being framework and what is measured by it. In the words of Robert Kennedy, who put it far more eloquently, GDP "measures everything ... except that which makes life worthwhile". That is what the well-being framework is endeavouring to meet. On the biodiversity front and on the insulation front, I agree that there will be more spending.
We are spending huge amounts of money on the electricity grid which the IFAC-CCAC report identified this morning. We are spending a lot on electric vehicles. Maybe we can do more. However, I am conscious we must do it within the fiscal framework we are told we must keep within. It is not that simple. We will be spending more on the grid and many of these issues and the budget will prioritise many of the areas around biodiversity restoration.
Last week, for example, the Shared Island fund had some very effective biodiversity measures, environmental trails and so on, which are very positive in the Border county areas in Cavan, Monaghan, Carlingford and Cuilcagh, the geopark that straddles both sides of the Border which the Shared Island fund enabled us to purchase. Now we are developing trails around that.
I take on board what Deputy Ó Murchú is saying about mental health generally. The SOSAD issue has been raised by other Deputies too. Deputy -----
4:10 pm
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Bennett.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, Deputy Bennett too, apologies. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler said earlier she has met the group. She says the HSE is telling her that it has to satisfy governance and it wants audits and so on. It is working with the group to try and fix that and get that sorted.
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is going on since Christmas. Why is it not -----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I know but there must be some issues there that need resolving.
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Whatever can be done.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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As soon as we can get it done. The Minister of State is sympathetic. She has met the group with a view to getting it resolved.
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It needs to happen.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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On Deputy Coppinger’s question, the €3 billion will be some time off. The immediate target is LOA 2. The programme for Government commits that after that a move to LOA 3 but we are some distance off because of procurement and so on. The Deputy spoke of increases but we are one of the lowest spenders. We have very low spending on military and we are coming from a very low base. Procurement capacity has to be built up and so on. The fact is, Europe is exposed in the world today and Europe feels exposed. Those on the eastern flank and the Baltic states in particular feel an existential threat from Russia – nobody else but Russia. There is a general view across Europe now that Russia represents a very significant threat to the long-term security of Europe and because of geopolitical developments that Europe will have to become more self-reliant in respect of its own security and defence. That is the view. Europe’s ultimate goal is to engage peacefully. Europe wants peace and wants to maintain peace and wants prosperity but sometimes the only way to maintain that is to have some strength that would deter people from encroaching and violating Europe’s borders or the borders of member states of the European Union. It is a very unsettling and uncertain environment in which we are currently living but those are the facts of the situation. There is a lot of worry about the place.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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And on St. Patrick’s day?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will be going, yes.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Specifically on wellness, we have reached a life expectancy of 83 years in this country which is very welcome. However, the numbers of those aged between 65 and 84 years will increase by 65% over the next two decades and those aged 85 and over will double. That means we will have an older population and it is important they stay well and active. Will the Taoiseach indicate his support, as was indicated in the budget and the programme for Government, for tax relief for gym membership to encourage people to become fitter as they get older?
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for the points he made. I refer to Mark Henry’s book which identifies the extraordinary gains that have been made in lifespan in Ireland among men and women. It is a great story which never gets told but Health did something right over the past 20 years. Lifestyle is important as well. I like the idea of tax relief for gym membership. I think it is a good idea although I understand that, I should not say the mandarins in Finance -----
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Maybe you should not.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----are inevitably saying there are complexities. Inevitably there are complexities attached to the proposal but I think we should do everything we possibly can to encourage activity and fitness levels in society. That is why I think one of the best things we have done in recent years is transformative investment in active travel across the country. One only has to go along greenways or walkways and they are populated by people going out, getting exercise and getting fit.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I remind Deputies it is 15 minutes per question. As we go over, the time extends to the last question. We now move to the next batch.