Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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14. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills her plans to reduce the pupil teacher ratio to 19:1 in the lifetime of this Government; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [8312/25]

Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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I ask the Minister to outline her plans to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio to 19:1 over the lifetime of the Government. It is an important question. As the Minister knows, a lot more work is feasible in a classroom if a teacher has a smaller number of pupils.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. The most important thing is that we continue to invest in our schools and support our teachers to be able to provide the best education possible. We know in certain settings that the fewer pupils there are, the more targeted a teacher can be and the greater attention and focus they can give to pupils. In that regard, the Government is investing a record €11.8 billion in education and schools through our budget for this year alone. I of course hope to see that figure increase in the coming budget and will work towards that.

This record level of investment has allowed the Government to invest in tackling educational disadvantage and supporting those with special educational needs to achieve their full potential. It has enabled huge investment in the school buildings programme, curriculum reform, school leadership and continuous professional development. As the Deputy said, the programme for Government commits to aim to reduce the general pupil-teacher ratio at primary level to 19:1 over the term of this Government and introduce targeted measures in schools with very large classes. This will build on the progress made by the previous Government.

The general average of pupils to teachers in the primary staffing schedule improved from 26:1 five years ago to 23:1 for the current school year. Average class sizes in primary schools have improved from 24.1 to 22.5 through the investment we have made. The Department’s primary staffing schedule is the key factor in determining the level of staffing resources provided at individual school level. This school year, the primary staffing schedule operates on a general average of 23 pupils to every one teacher, which is historically the lowest ever ratio of pupils to teachers at primary level. More favourable ratios were implemented for DEIS urban band 1 schools. This happened for important reasons, so that measures can be as targeted as possible for children.

The numbers employed in our schools have now reached the highest level ever. This is important if we want to continue to reduce the overall pupil-teacher ratio. Teacher numbers at primary level have increased by over 5,600 between 2018 and 2024. This has led to a steady improvement in the pupil-teacher ratio and average class size statistics during this period. I will respond further.

Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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I thank the Minister and appreciate her response. I want to work with the Minister and Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan. Ultimately, the Department is trying to benefit students. The most important people across the country are those who need a good education and start in life. We have serious issues when it comes to the number of teachers in our classrooms. That is firsthand knowledge. This issue ranges across not just the Department of Education, but other Departments.

One of the biggest issues for teachers is housing, followed by the cost of childcare and cost of living. I know that goes outside of the Minister's Department, but the lack of affordable accommodation and childcare are real concerns for many teachers.

We do not have the necessary school accommodation. Last week, the Minister outlined to me the amount of money that has been spent since 2020, but the reality is that we still do not have that accommodation. Classes across the country are being taught in prefabs. I ask the Minister to investigate the number of prefabs that are being used and the level of additional accommodation that is necessary in schools in order to move forward with the reduction in the pupil-teacher ratio.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Thankfully, we have a growing young population and it is important that our investment in our young people and education grows with us. That is why we have seen the capital budget increase and have the highest overall education budget. That has allowed us to make the progress I referenced when it comes to reducing pupil-teacher ratios and increasing the number of teachers.

In 2016, the ratio was improved by one and went from 27:1 to 26:1 and then 25 to 1. Budget 2022 allowed us to reduce the ratio to 24:1. Budget 2023 allowed us to bring it down to the lowest it has been, namely 23 pupils for every one teacher. My intention is that we continue in that positive direction and with the momentum that has been gained.

In order to do that, we need to make sure we have the teachers to be able to do it. We need to make sure we continue to increase the numbers registering with the Teaching Council. There has been some 30% of an increase in the past number of years, which is positive. As the Deputy said, we need even more because the children are there. This is a demand-led provision. It is an entitlement for every young person and I am committed to making sure they can access that.

Eoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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I am very glad that the Minister said she is committed to increasing the supply of teachers. That is important. In 2024, the Teachers' Union of Ireland, TUI, completed a survey of new entrants to the profession. Some 35% responded and said that over recent years they did not receive a contract for full hours when they entered the profession. Some 12% said it is extremely difficult to get a full contract. When entering the teaching profession, I found that getting a full-time contract was difficult. There are maternity leave contracts or 12 or 13 hours of teaching time at second level, when a full-time contract is 22 hours. We are having difficulty in respect of contracts.

Some of my colleagues and schoolmates who have graduated have moved overseas. I do not know whether what I propose is possible under the Minister's remit; I hope it is. We should recognise overseas teaching experience in terms of incremental teaching experience in this country. I refer, for example, to a teacher who taught for five years abroad being added to that incremental scale.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I know how important it is for a young teacher to be able to get a permanent contract. It has implications in terms of looking for a mortgage and buying a home or car. It is absolutely vital that teachers can get a permanent contract. I have spoken to the TUI about that this week. I want to make sure that we do everything possible as I develop a new workforce plan to support the recruitment and retention of teachers, and also the return of teachers.

The Deputy mentioned that we do not have exact data on the number of teachers who are teaching abroad, be it in the UK, Europe, the Middle East and as far away as Australia. I want to make sure that we have the right measures, structures and supports in place to be able to encourage more people into the profession and support those who are currently in it, including making sure teachers can access full-time contracts. We also need to encourage people home and ensure that when they come home they are coming back to teach in schools and not going into any other profession.