Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Déanaim comhghairdeas leis an Aire Stáit as a phost nua. Go n-éirí leis.

We have had a really positive change in recent years in the way we assess patronage in schools. That communities actually get to have a say and indicate to the Department very directly the kind of school they want represents a very positive change by comparison with where we were when I was growing up. I have expressed the view before that it is probably unlikely that we will ever again have a Catholic school established under new patronage in this country because the reality is that communities are choosing to rebalance the way our schools are operated away from that kind of patronage and towards different forms that give a different service to different communities and address the needs that exist in them. However, the way the Department assesses that need is by way of a plebiscite in a geographic area. Therefore, if there is to be a school in a particular area, the Department will ask the people who live there what kind of school they want. That is legitimate in its own way.

The difficulty that applies in my constituency, Dún Laoghaire, in particular but also across the whole of Dublin is that the geographic area is not necessarily the only community served by the relevant school. With extensive transport links throughout Dublin, including the DART and Luas lines and the new BusConnects spines that go through the city, people may travel quite a substantial distance to get to school. Therefore, the community served by a new school may be much larger than the one next door to it or down the road from it. This is particularly true of post-primary schools. The example that comes to mind for me is Cherrywood, Dublin. The local authority for the Dún Laoghaire area, certainly when I was a member of it, spent a great deal of time and energy putting together a de facto new city in Cherrywood. That is now starting to fill out with a new population and it is a wonderful, diverse place. As it fills up with shops and services, including schools, it will make for a really great place to live. It is already a great place to live, but as the things I have mentioned come, it will really come into its own. There are sites within Cherrywood that have been identified for new schools, one of which is for a post-primary school. There is already another post-primary school. Blackrock Educate Together Secondary School, which will eventually be located at the top of Newtownpark Avenue, is temporarily resident in the Educate Together primary school in Cherrywood. However, there is another site earmarked for a post-primary school.

One of the big issues is that if there is a plebiscite only in the Cherrywood area, it ignores the fact that the end of the Luas line is in Cherrywood. The Luas serves people all the way into town. Anybody who lives on the Luas line, whether it is in somewhere like Ranelagh or farther afield, can very easily get to school on the Luas. Therefore, consideration of where patronage extends should account for an area beyond Cherrywood. The reason I make this point is that there is currently a campaign under way by people seeking a Gaelcholáiste in the area. There are a number of Gaelscoileanna in the area, particularly outside the immediate catchment area of Cherrywood, the Dún Laoghaire constituency included. Although we have a Gaelcholáiste, Coláiste Ráithín in Bray, and Coláiste Eoin and Coláiste Íosagáin in Stillorgan, there is not a school available for the people who are graduating out of the Gaelscoileanna, a Gaelcholáiste, for them to continue their education trí mheán na Gaeilge.

If you apply the strict criterion of just asking the people who live in a strict geographic area what kind of school they want, it is less likely that they will say a Gaelcholáiste. Therefore, there is a whole community of people whose children are leaving a Gaelscoil and graduating into the secondary school arena who would love to have education through Irish but who, because of the narrow system the Department operates, are not really recognised. Patronage is important but An Foras Patrúnachta, which has done great work in this area, is at a little bit of a loss in this regard. I wonder whether the system can be extended a little more flexibly.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the issue of the criteria for school patronage. He mentioned a specific issue in his own constituency. The reply I have relates to the specifics of how school patronage works. I will outline that and might come back to him later on the specific issue, if that is okay.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. It gives me the opportunity to report to Dáil Éireann the position with regard to the selection of school patronage for newly established schools. Since 2011, new arrangements have been in place for the establishment of new schools involving the forecasting of demand for school places based on the demographic exercises carried out by the Department of Education. New schools are only established in areas of demographic growth as the resources available for school infrastructure have to be prioritised to meet the needs of areas of significant population increase so as to ensure that every child has a school place.

These new arrangements also give an opportunity to patrons to apply for the patronage of new schools. The criteria used in deciding on the patronage of new schools place a particular emphasis on parental preference, as the Deputy referenced, language preferences and an analysis of existing provision in the areas where the schools are being established. This approach is underpinned by a 2011 Government decision.

The patronage process is open to all patron bodies and prospective patrons. An online patronage process system, OPPS, has been in operation under the Department since 2018 and provides objective information to parents in the relevant school planning areas to assist them in making an informed choice about their preferred model of patronage and language of instruction for the new school. When the Department announces that a new school entity is required, a prospective patron can choose the school it wishes to apply for and complete an application form in that regard for each school for submission to the Department. The Department provides details on the OPPS of the school and the list of applicant patrons which have applied for patronage of the school. Parents can then access the appropriate survey for their area, to input the details of the eligible child or children and to select their preferred patron and language of instruction, with the exception of the Irish-medium primary Gaelscoileanna that have been designated as an Irish medium prior to the opening of the OPPS. In the case of those schools, parents can select their preferred patron.

Parental preferences, as well as other considerations, such as the extent of diversity of provision in an area, are key to the decision-making process and to whether at post-primary level a school would take the form of a Gaelscoileanna or whether, if English medium, the school would include an Irish-medium unit.

The patronage process for new schools is overseen by an external independent advisory group. The group then reports to the Minister on the patronage of the school. Following their consideration of the Department's assessment reports, the new schools establishment group, NSEG, submits a report with recommendations to the Minister for consideration and final decision. The assessment reports and the NSEG recommendations for all such patronage processes are made available on the education section of the Government website.

Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate entirely what the Minister of State said. The OPPS is excellent. The way we have changed how we assess patronage is a good thing. I also appreciate what the Minister of State said about the criteria. The key in his answer is that the process is open and "provides objective information to parents in the relevant school planning areas". That is the difficulty I have. If we are only taking about parents in a specific area, we are excluding parents outside that area. It is a particular problem.

I did not give the Minister of State advance notice that I was going to talk about Cherrywood so I absolutely accept that he does not have that specific information. It is, however, a principle that applies across the country in relation to Gaeloideachas. There are necessarily fewer Irish speakers in a non-Gaeltacht community so they are going to be spread across a wider area, notwithstanding the fact that there are enough of them to justify a Gaelcholáiste. That is the issue. I can tell the Minister of State, from the point of view of a layperson, that the school planning areas are something of a mystery. They do not follow the criteria one might normally expect. If we stick to those areas, we are excluding people from a wider community who wish to come together to form a school committee that follows a particular and, according to the Minister of State's reply, diverse criteria. I use the example of Cherrywood. There are people from a wider area than just that school catchment area who dearly want a Gaelcholáiste in Cherrywood. It is an area that has been identified as needing a secondary school. Even a site has been identified. Will the Minister of State bring back to the Department the proposal that if we are truly to achieve the kind of diversity we are trying to eke out in terms of schools, we change that strict geographic criterion in respect of the assessment of patronage? We should ask people beyond that area if there is a basis on which we can put together a school that is a little bit different, in this instance, a Gaelcholáiste, a scoil trí mheán na Gaeilge.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Some of the long-established Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcholáistí, primary and post-primary schools that have developed across the country in the past 25 or 30 years, contrary to the criteria we now apply, were set up by local groups and in small entities. They have flourished and grown. I take the point that certain criteria are stifling development.

I will take this specific issue back to the Department and will get a reply. I can continue on in relation to patronage. The Deputy fully understands the issues that are there and the system in place. I will not labour the point. I will take back his concerns and will see that a reply is issued to him. I understand what he is saying.