Dáil debates

Wednesday, 22 January 2025

2:05 am

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Before we commence the very important constitutional business of nominating a Taoiseach, I wish to advise the House of what was agreed yesterday in the Business Committee on the speaking arrangements for prospective technical groups for today's sitting. It was agreed that the groups, as currently constituted, would be facilitated in the speaking arrangements for today, and this is without prejudice to decisions that will be taken following the completion of the submission process which I initiated last Friday on foot of concerns expressed by Members.

I assure Members that I will act with the utmost impartiality and fairness on this matter, and that I will ensure complete transparency in any of the decisions made as Chair.

I call on the Government Chief Whip, Deputy Hildegarde Naughton, to propose the arrangements for the constitutional business of the day.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle. It is proposed that the following arrangements shall apply to the business to be taken today:

- The proceedings on the nominations for Taoiseach shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour and 20 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:

- the allocation of time shall be as follows: - speeches of a proposer and seconder ‒ 5 minutes each; and

- speeches by representatives of parties and the prospective technical groups who have not made a nomination ‒ 10 minutes per party or group; and

- members may share time; - on the determination of any nominations for Taoiseach, the Dáil shall, unless it otherwise orders, stand suspended until either 5.30 p.m. or four hours after the conclusion of the proceedings on the nominations, whichever is the later;

- the proceedings on the approval of the nomination by the Taoiseach of other members of the Government shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour and 30 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto: - the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:
- speeches by Taoiseach and Tánaiste ‒ 15 minutes each;

- speeches by representatives of Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, the Social Democrats and the prospective technical groups ‒ 10 minutes per party or group; and

- members may share time-----

Photo of Eoin Ó BroinEoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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That is a joke.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is ridiculous.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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-----

- the proceedings on the motion re establishment of Select Committee on Subsidiarity (European Union Legislative Scrutiny) shall be taken as the last item of business without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately; and

- on the conclusion of the proceedings on the business outlined, the Dáil shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 5 February 2025.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is not agreed.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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It is absolutely not agreed.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputies might give me a chance to ask the question. I take it that the proposal is not agreed.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not agreed.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I propose we take brief statements, starting with Deputy Mary Lou McDonald.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is astonishing, after weeks and weeks of haggling among the parties that proposed to form Government over who would get which job, and how much they could increase the respective allowance for their record number of Ministers of State, that we find ourselves meeting on the first day of the Dáil and the first action of Government is to propose a further two-week holiday. This is unacceptable. We all know the big issues that face people on the ground and the message to Government needs to be: "Get to work."

There is no rationale, no excuse and no reason for further delay and for this two-week holiday.

Second, the speaking arrangements outlined, or proposed, by the Government Whip underscore again a cynical and unprecedented ruse from Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to place their Independent cronies - supporters of the Government - on the Opposition benches and to afford to them the same speaking rights as genuine parties of opposition-----

2:10 am

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----which, remember, are elected here by hundreds of thousands of voters to hold this Government to account and express the democratic wishes and desires of those people and communities. I have seen brazen actions by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in past Dáileanna and Governments but this takes the biscuit. Rather than agreeing to temporary measures which afford these Government TDs speaking rights as though they were members of the Opposition, this should have been called out from the get-go. The Ceann Comhairle said she will be independent and fair in her deliberations. What has been proposed today is anything but fair or independent and is completely unacceptable to those of us in Sinn Féin and, I believe, to the Opposition as a whole.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The next speaker is Deputy Duncan Smith from the Labour Party.

Photo of Duncan SmithDuncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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It needs to be said that at the Business Committee yesterday, all Opposition members registered their dissent to the arrangements and to the matter of the speaking rights for the technical groups. The proposal is for us to come back on 5 February, in two weeks. That proposal cannot proceed until we have resolved the issue of the technical groups' speaking rights. Notwithstanding what she said in her few words before we heard from the Government Chief Whip, I ask the Ceann Comhairle to state on the record of the Dáil that this is a temporary arrangement just for today - again, we dissent to it - and to acknowledge that there is deep division out there. Contrary to what the Tánaiste and incoming Taoiseach says, the public are angry about this.

Deputies:

Yes.

Photo of Duncan SmithDuncan Smith (Dublin Fingal East, Labour)
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They are really angry about it. I would like the Ceann Comhairle to commit to a deadline as to when she will make an adjudication on the joint submission from the Opposition on this matter and to make a decision that is for the good of the entire Parliament and every Member of this House. We in the Opposition believe there is only one answer to that question.

Deputies:

Yes.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We move now to the Social Democrats and Deputy Gary Gannon.

Photo of Gary GannonGary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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I am not sure which absurdity to oppose first but I will start with the Government allowing itself another two weeks to avoid Dáil scrutiny, not answer questions and not be held to account in the traditional manner of this Parliament. The public will simply not stand for it. It is ludicrous and was opposed in the Business Committee.

We need to demonstrate a little bit of leadership here. We all know the issues. The front of The Irish Times this morning tells us that Trump has removed the United States from international tax agreements. Is that not something the House should be able to discuss and understand? We are told that Ministers need time to settle into their briefs. That may be the case but we have a Taoiseach, a soon-to-be Taoiseach, a Tánaiste and a soon-to-be Tánaiste who are part of the programme for Government. Why can we not ask questions? When can we talk to the expected Minister for Finance about what our position is following events in America? It is absolutely ludicrous.

The arrangements for the new Dáil technical groups undermine the very foundations of parliamentary democracy. The idea of parliamentary democracy is that governments make proposals, as the Government did with its programme for Government, and we present alternatives to them, if necessary. What the Government is doing now belies that very principle. It is unbecoming. We are off to an incredibly bad start in this Dáil. This is setting the tone for the next five years. That is from you, not from us. What we are asking for is that the basic tenets of democracy are upheld here. Instead, we have the Government wishing that people who developed their own programme for Government correct their homework. It is absolutely despicable.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We move to the technical groups. There will be one speaker per group. I call Deputy Peadar Tóibín.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Today, there are-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Good man, Peadar.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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-----thousands of children who are homeless-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please, Deputies.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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-----and there are many children suffering pain from scoliosis waiting for operations. Today, many children will seek help with regard to their mental health but will be refused CAMHS treatment. Eighty-nine days will elapse between the last time we had consecutive Dáil business to the next time we have consecutive Dáil business. The excuse of the Government is that it has to bed down.

Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have been in government for ten years at this stage. Actually, Fine Gael is heading towards 19 years in government. The idea that they need to take two weeks off to bed down into these Departments is ridiculous. These issues are urgent. Show a little bit of urgency and ensure the Dáil is back and working next week.

2:20 am

Photo of Cian O'CallaghanCian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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The Deputy is in the technical group propping them up.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We move now to Deputy Boyd Barrett.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We are off to a farcical start in the new Dáil. To my mind, the last contribution really sums it up.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputies, please.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Deputy Tóibín is in a technical group with people who are actually in the Government and have undoubtedly gone along with this charade, which is going to mean that, effectively, we have had no Dáil for three months. This is at a time when hundreds of thousands of people out there need answers and action from the Government to address their housing situation and issues like disability. Hundreds of thousands of health workers have also balloted for industrial action because of the understaffing of the health service, while section 39 workers are balloting for industrial action because they are being treated so unfairly and unequally. Yet the Government wants more time off. Why will we not be discussing the programme for Government next week? There is no reason questions could not be answered on the programme for Government that has been negotiated for weeks.

We have then taken the art of speaking out of the two sides of your mouth to a new and higher level. People are pretending to be Independent Deputies but are actually propping up Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. They are Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in disguise and, in reality, want to be in the Government, supporting it, endorsing the programme for Government. They are writers of the programme for Government while they are then pretending to be in the Opposition. They are undermining not just the Opposition but the right of the people of this country to have a strong Opposition and to hold this Government to account. This is more stroke politics from Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in disguise as Independent Deputies.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy and call Deputy Michael Collins.

Photo of Michael CollinsMichael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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I wish the Ceann Comhairle well. I also wish all my colleagues well on their election to this new Dáil. It has been 15 weeks since an election was called and nine weeks since we had the election. It is scandalous, to be quite honest, when we have a housing crisis where 15,000 people are without homes and there is a health crisis with people on trolleys. This is happening year after year and time after time. We have a cost-of-living crisis. Ordinary farmers, because of an IT problem in the Department of agriculture, cannot get their payments. Now it is proposed that we take another two weeks off to do I do not know what. I would say the new Government was sorted and solved the day after the count in the general election. The parties knew exactly what way things were going. The numbers were added up and we knew where the jobs were going to go. Now, they want to take another two weeks out. It is shocking, to be quite honest. The public out there are furious about it. We can hear it in their voices, locally and nationally. It is an issue that must be resolved and we must have a Dáil sitting here next week, get back to business and deal with those people who are without homes or are lying on trolleys.

On speaking time, I made it clear in the meeting of the Business Committee that Independent Ireland is totally opposed to what is being proposed. I know it is only a temporary situation today, but going forward it must be resolved. You cannot be on the inside and on the outside. We were very fair in the Business Committee because we said that people have a right to speak here. That technical group has a right to speak from within Government ranks but not from within the Opposition ranks. It cannot work both ways. I plead, therefore, with the Ceann Comhairle to come to the most sensible decision here and let democracy take its course in this country.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy. I call the Government Chief Whip to respond to those contributions.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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On the timings for this morning, every party gets ten minutes each. If people wish to propose and second someone for Taoiseach-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is not good enough. That is not fair.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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-----then they can do it within their allocated time. Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and every party and technical group has the same amount of time.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Chief Whip.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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How can the-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am sorry, Deputy, excuse me.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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How can the Government Chief Whip defend a situation where Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, please.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----are getting 15 minutes each to speak, while Sinn Féin, which is larger than Fine Gael, the record should show, is getting ten minutes?

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Ceann Comhairle has said that she intends to be fair and impartial, but her first decisions are not fair or impartial. In fact, she has facilitated the situation where the only Dáil Deputy-----

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Withdraw that.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, I ask you to resume your seat.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----that she credited upon her election to the post, Deputy Lowry-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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One of her first actions is to facilitate his charade for him and other members of the Government-----

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Withdraw that.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----where they are essentially backing a situation where they are supporting this charade.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, please resume your seat.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is completely unfair and undemocratic. I must say I am really disappointed that the Ceann Comhairle is facilitating such a charade.

It is completely unfair and undemocratic.

2:30 am

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy Carthy-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am really disappointed that you, a Cheann Comhairle, are facilitating such a charade.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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-----I am actually going to address the contributions.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is not acceptable at all.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me, Deputy. Please resume your seat.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do not think it behoves the dignity of your office or this Dáil if we allow this charade to continue-----

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----as has been outlined today. It is absolutely not good enough.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Could you please resume your seat, Deputy?

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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A Cheann Comhairle, on a point of order.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me, Deputy.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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A Cheann Comhairle, you read into the record earlier details relating to your decision.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I had not even given-----

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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We need to know when your decision is going to be made.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I have not been given the option to do it.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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We need to know, because the Business Committee cannot even function and set up what is meant to be happening here in two weeks' time without that decision.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me, Deputy.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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You also said in your letter you got two sets of advice. Which advice takes precedent? Was it the advice you got from the Clerk or the advice from parliamentary legal adviser?

When it comes to the functioning of this Dáil, this is a huge decision. We were looking at other parliaments across the Irish Sea two years ago and laughing at the way in which they conducted their business. Let us make sure that this solemn Parliament in Ireland is not made a show of around the world, where we set a precedent where people who are part of the Government are sitting in opposition. What a bloody farce.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy. I ask for some decorum in order that I might answer what was put to me by your colleague earlier.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I reiterate what was said. I can give the House and its Members an absolute assurance that I will deal with the matter expeditiously. As the Deputy is aware, and as the Business Committee will have relayed to every Member of the House, there is a process in place. I invited submissions in order that it could be open, transparent and impartial. The closing date for those submissions is close of business today. Pending the vote on the Order of Business, we may or may not resume on 5 February, but I intend to deal with it expeditiously. It does not mean that I will not be dealing with it-----

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle, could you put a date on it, please-----

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Respect the Chair.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Excuse me, Deputy.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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-----in order that people might know? Just put a date on it, expeditiously. I cannot find it in my calendar.

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Respect the House and respect the Chair. Vótáil.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I have said I have not yet-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Why is it that your provisional arrangement favours the so-called technical group, a Cheann Comhairle?

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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There is no expeditiousness at all, a Cheann Comhairle. Could you just put a date on it? It is relatively simple. It should not be a big ask, a Cheann Comhairle. Can you put a date on it, please?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am sorry. Excuse me, Members.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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On a point of order.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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There is no point of order.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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There is a point of order.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The Deputy can speak in a minute. He should resume his seat. Deputy Boyd Barrett wants to speak.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have a question - a short one liner.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Members should not shout at me and jump out of their seats. I am prepared to hear them, but the reality in this regard is that I cannot give a date because I have not yet received all the submissions. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have just one question. We asked for the OPLA's advice and the legal advice you were given. You committed to doing that. Can you tell us when the Opposition and the Business Committee will see the legal advice that led you to make your provisional decision?

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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As soon as I have received all the submissions and had a chance-----

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Why wait?

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Why not share the advice now?

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You are here, a Cheann Comhairle, to support the TDs in the House. Why not share it with the rest of us?

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Make your submissions.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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There is a process to be undertaken.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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You are designing the process.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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That process will not even begin until the close of business this evening when all the submissions have been received.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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What is the process?

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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A Cheann Comhairle, there is a massive conflict of interest here. I have done a submission on the conflict of interest for Independent Ireland. The Regional Independents nominated you as Ceann Comhairle. If this was any court in the land, a judge would not be allowed to preside over a family case.

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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She is your Ceann Comhairle too. She is the Ceann Comhairle of this House.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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In this case - not taking from the Ceann Comhairle's character - but in the interests of fairness-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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-----and the protection of the Ceann Comhairle, she should step aside and let somebody else deal with this issue. I am not taking from her character.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Members. Everybody in the House-----

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, you had-----

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Under Standing Order 35(3), I am entitled to propose an amendment to the Order of Business.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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On that basis-----

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I propose that we suspend the Dáil and convene an urgent meeting of the Business Committee to deal with the outrageous proposition that the Dáil will not return next week and that 39 TDs in Sinn Féin will be allocated ten minutes - the same as your Government's group in opposition.

Michael Lowry is a member of the Opposition.

2:40 am

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy-----

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Michael Lowry stood outside this building and said "We will support the Government in the good days and the bad", with all seven of them, and he is a member of the Opposition. For God's sake.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, please.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You are making a mockery of democracy here. The Taoiseach to come and the Taoiseach right now-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am going to-----

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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-----designed this situation today. They have it within their power to resolve this issue. The technical groups should have speaking rights from the Government side. That is where they belong.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I am proposing that we suspend the Dáil now.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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That is my proposal.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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This is one of the first times on the Order of Business-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy Carthy, you are out of order. Please resume your seat.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----that I have been a part of that Deputy Mattie McGrath has not had something to say.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Please allow me-----

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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This would not happen at a residents' meeting.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Now is his opportunity-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----to let us know why he is facilitating this charade and why the Deputy beside him is. Maybe he should get an opportunity to tell the Dáil why he is going to support an increase in carbon taxes for the next five years, thereby increasing costs for people driving to work and heating their homes and for farmers, and then pretending that he is in the Opposition-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy Carthy, you are out of order. Please resume your seat.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----and then having the facilitation of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Peadar Tóibín and Mattie McGrath to carry on in this charade.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am afraid-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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This is a test of you, a Cheann Comhairle, and so far you are failing the test.

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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That is outrageous.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputy, I am going to give you one opportunity-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It does not give me any pleasure to say that but you are facilitating one of the most outrageous breaches of parliamentary democracy we have seen here. It is not good enough.

Photo of Paul McAuliffePaul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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This is not an Ard-Fheis; it is the national parliament. Resume your seat.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is not good enough.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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One opportunity.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle, you cannot allow this to continue. This must not be allowed. It is a farce.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I will have to suspend the House, I am afraid.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is not good enough. The two boys there got 42% of the vote but that does not give them the right to run roughshod over 100 years of precedent - every single precedent of the Oireachtas. It is not good enough.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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You have been a Deputy, a Cheann Comhairle, and you know this is utterly ridiculous.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is not good enough. We have a cabal here of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Independents making a joke of this whole process.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Resume your seats. Thank you. We will suspend.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputies, please resume your seats. I am left with no option but to suspend the House for 15 minutes.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 11.27 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11.56 a.m.

Sitting suspended at 11.27 a.m. and resumed at 11.56 a.m.

2:45 am

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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As Deputies will all be aware, we have entered a process. I have given an undertaking to Members, categorically, to deal with that process expeditiously. "Expeditiously" means before the resumption of Dáil Éireann on 5 February.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We have not agreed to that.

Photo of Jennifer WhitmoreJennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Can I make a point of order?

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I am now going to put the question.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, can I have a point of order, please? I would like to pick up a point of order.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputies who are in favour of the motion say "Tá".

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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On a point of order------

(Interruptions.)

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputies who are against, say "Níl".

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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What about the legal advice? When will we get the legal advice?

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The question is carried.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not carried. On a point of order-----

(Interruptions.)

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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When will we get the legal advice?

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am an elected Member of this Dáil and I am entitled to do that. The people of Cork North-Central elected me----

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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To hold a vote at this stage would be a disgrace.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We now move to the next business, which is Nomination of Taoiseach, pursuant to Article------

(Interruptions.)

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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When will we get the legal advice?

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Fair is fair. There has to be fairness. There must be fairness now.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle, we cannot have a vote now.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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We are not going to take five years of being pushed down and unfairness. I am asking about Standing Orders.

Photo of Jennifer WhitmoreJennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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This is a really serious issue. We have to have-----

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Deputies, please resume your seats. The question has-----

Photo of Jennifer WhitmoreJennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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-----a chance to discuss it.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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We will not resume our seats until you confirm you will deal with the issue. This is a farce.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Eoghan KennyEoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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When are we going to get the legal advice?

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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When we are getting the legal advice? Tell us when we are getting the legal advice, a Cheann Comhairle. There is no good reason not to give us the OPLA legal advice now.

Photo of Eoghan KennyEoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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What about the legal advice?

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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A point of order has been raised. Will the Ceann Comhairle deal with that please? A suggestion has been made. A proposal has been put through an amendment-----

(Interruptions.)

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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We need to get the legal advice.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We can suspend the House again if Deputies cannot resume their seats.

Photo of Eoghan KennyEoghan Kenny (Cork North-Central, Labour)
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Ridiculous.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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We will not stand for it.

Photo of Cathal CroweCathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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You are doing a lot of standing for Facebook there, Thomas.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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We need to get the legal advice, a Cheann Comhairle.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I suspend the House for 30 minutes. Thank you, Deputies.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 11.58 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 1.12 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 11.58 a.m. and resumed at 1.12 p.m.

2:50 am

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I now call on the Government Chief Whip to make a brief statement.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Today as Members of Dáil Éireann, we are all here to elect a Government and Taoiseach following the result of the general election. That is our duty. The Ceann Comhairle has given a clear commitment to work with all parties and none to resolve the issue of the technical group. I reiterate the Government's clear commitment to work with her and that process to resolve that to ensure we have a politically acceptable solution. The Dáil will resume on 5 February and I want to ensure that together, we can ensure we have a functioning Government elected and up and running on that date. I propose that the Whips meet for 30 minutes to see if we can find a resolution with the Ceann Comhairle's approval.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Is that agreed?

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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There will be 30 minutes for a meeting and 15 minutes to consult with our parties so it will be 45 minutes.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The meeting will be 30 minutes long and parties will then have 15 minutes.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Is that agreed? Agreed. The House will suspend for 45 minutes.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 1.13 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 4.20 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 1.13 p.m. and resumed at 4.20 p.m.

2:55 am

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I call on the Chief Whip.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, Ceann Comhairle. Following a series of meetings between party Whips today, a number of measures have been agreed. These meetings were held to enable the democratic process of this House and do what we were all elected to Dáil Éireann to do, that is, to elect a Taoiseach and Government. All parties have agreed to allow the democratic process to proceed. There were a number of agreements and it is my understanding that that is now in dispute.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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There was no agreement made.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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There was no agreement.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The nomination of Taoiseach should now proceed as per the order of the House.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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This is disgraceful.