Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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4. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if she will support withdrawing the planned increases to employees' PRSI and increasing employers' PRSI towards European levels instead; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [25407/24]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Tomorrow night we will vote on Second Stage of the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. As it stands, the Bill proposes to increase employees' PRSI every year for the next five years. Given that employers' PRSI is the lowest in Europe and given the cost-of-living crisis workers face, will the Minister withdraw the Government's proposal for an extra tax on ordinary workers and increase employers' PRSI to cover the costs?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Murphy. The PRSI system plays a fundamental and supportive role in our society. For the PRSI contributions they make, employees and self-employed workers receive benefits for the periods spent out of employment during periods of unemployment, illness or maternity, for example, and upon retirement from the workforce.

One of the findings of the latest actuarial review of the Social Insurance Fund was that the fund will experience significant long-term sustainability challenges. This is mainly driven by the challenge Ireland will face concerning demographics, particularly the ageing of our population.

All PRSI rates applicable to employees, employers and the self-employed are significantly below the EU average. The rates are not directly comparable because different approaches, thresholds and ceilings apply across member states. It is in this context that we are undertaking a collective, evenly spread and gradual programme of increasing PRSI rates across all three contributors to the Social Insurance Fund – employees, employers and the self-employed – between 2024 and 2028. These increases will support the retention of the State pension age at 66 years, help address the long-term sustainability challenges facing the Social Insurance Fund and also provide for the new jobseeker's pay-related benefit. The Bill to provide for these increases is currently progressing through the Oireachtas.

I am satisfied that the approach decided upon by the Government achieves a fair balance in addressing the long-term sustainability of the Social Insurance Fund without unduly impinging on the incomes of workers and the cost of doing business in Ireland.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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This is a stealth tax increase on ordinary workers. It has not been subject to anywhere near enough media scrutiny and public discussion. The Government is, with one hand, taking money from ordinary low-paid workers and, with the other, putting money into the pockets of businesses through the employers' PRSI tax break it has given businesses through the business support package. A full-time worker on the minimum wage will face paying almost €180 extra in PRSI and a worker on the average wage will face paying almost €350 extra. Therefore, the Government is taking money from workers' pockets to give it to employers. This is at a time when people are to be hammered with increases in excise and carbon tax on petrol and diesel, which are planned for later this year. They will be hit again and hit by the cost-of-living crisis in every single way. The Minister is planning to increase taxes on ordinary workers and should withdraw this proposal.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy wants to keep the pension age at 66, he should realise it has to be paid for. That is the reality. Sometimes he is a bit detached from reality. With him, it is usually a case of spend, spend, spend on the grounds that somebody else can pay for it. That is how he operates. He got his answer at the weekend. People are not buying his view. The Government parties won over 500 seats and his political grouping won 13. That tells him all he needs to know.

These are very modest increases. There is an increase of 0.1%, which equates to about 90 cent per week on the average industrial wage. The value of the State pension is roughly €380,000 for the average person. That is what your pot is worth when you retire. The contribution is an extra 90 cent per week and it is reasonable. Now is the time to introduce it. These are very small, incremental increases. Now, when we have full employment, is the time to introduce them.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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It is the Minister who is spending money, giving it to big businesses. Why is she introducing the business support package through changing the threshold for the lower employer PRSI rate, costing the Social Insurance Fund €60 million? She is giving the businesses €60 million and will take €60 million from workers next year. She is taking from workers to give to businesses, yet she pretends nothing is happening here and that everything just goes on. She also talks about 0.1%. It will be 0.1% next year but over the subsequent years it will go up to 4.7%. What is missing from this discussion, because Fine Gael represents the interests of big businesses, is the fact that we have one of the lowest employer PRSI rates in Europe. An analysis by the Government's own tax strategy group found that even the higher rate of employer PRSI is less than half the EU average and less than a quarter of what bosses in France pay. The employers are therefore the ones who can afford to pay for this scheme.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The recently agreed PRSI rate increases, although still very significantly under the EU average, achieve a fair balance between addressing the long-term sustainability of the Social Insurance Fund and maintaining the State pension age at 66. The proposal is not unduly impinging on the incomes of workers and the cost of doing business in Ireland.

There is a very simple point that I believe the Deputy missed. If you keep piling all the costs on the employers, their businesses may not survive, meaning we will have no jobs. That is what happens; it is very simple. Increasing the employer rate by such a margin would clearly lead to very significant pressures on employers with regard to the affordability of retaining staff, expanding their workforces and generally keeping their businesses sustainable. The proposal is for small incremental increases across the board. If you target one cohort alone, the amount will have to be bigger; it is as simple as that. Therefore, what we are doing is right.