David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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27. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the current regulations with respect to students availing of school transport to a school which is their second-nearest school; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23858/24]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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This is a related question on school transport to give the Minister an opportunity to outline the current regulations with respect to students availing of school transport to a school which is their second-nearest school.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I will be repeating myself now. The school transport scheme is operated by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department of Education, as we said. We have more than 161,600 young people availing of it. That figure is divided into children travelling on mainstream services and children with special educational needs who are travelling. The total cost of the scheme was in excess of €382 million in the 2023 school year. We know it is very good value for money. Families are being asked to pay €50 at primary school, €75 at post-primary level and €125 for a family ticket. In fact, the cost to the State per student for the school transport scheme is more than €1,100. That is incredibly good value. It is an excellent system but our objective is to ensure that more people will have an opportunity to avail of it going forward. Therefore, we have an ambitious projection forward of 100,000 additional students availing of the scheme by 2030.

The temporary alleviation measures to which the Deputy refers are currently in place at post-primary level and will be in place for the 2024-25 school year. Under these measures, transport is provided where there is a route in operation and where capacity exists for concessionary post-primary pupils who are eligible for transport to their nearest school, are attending their second nearest school and applied and paid on time. Children who are not eligible for school transport may apply for transport on a concessionary basis only and will be facilitated where spare seats are available after eligible children have been accommodated. Where the number of ineligible children exceeds the number of spare seats available, Bus Éireann will allocate tickets for the spare seats using an agreed selection process. It should be noted that planning for school transport services in any given year will commence in the preceding December to January. In this regard, planning for the 2024-25 school year has already commenced, with officials of the Department in regular contact and engagement with Bus Éireann.

A review of the school transport scheme has been completed, as I stated earlier. The review was conducted with a view to examining the current scheme, its broader effectiveness and, specifically, with reference to the nearest and the next-nearest school, as the Deputy raised. All of that is part of the review going forward. The school transport scheme 2030, which has now been published, will be an opportunity for us to look at the scope and potential to do things differently, add greater capacity and allow a maximum number of students avail of the transport scheme.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I commend the Minister on the work she is doing in this area because there is huge potential here. To clarify, is she saying students can actually avail of transport to the second-nearest school at second level? That is one question. Has the Minister looked at a similar situation applying to primary school students? That is my second question. I think I have time left to put a third question. I understand that where a student applies to a school and is told there is no place or is not offered a place but, rather, put on a waiting list, that is a de facto refusal. In such cases, the student can appeal to the board of management and if that does not work a section 29 appeal can be made to the Department. If it is deemed that there is no space in the school, the student is entitled to transport to the next-nearest school. However, many parents do not know about this process. In fact, I have said here previously that you would almost want to be a barrister to follow it. Parents are not aware of the process and they are not being told about it. In future, will the Minister ensure parents know that this process exists? By the time they find out about it, it is too late. Those are three questions on the second-nearest school for this year, the primary school situation and this convoluted appeals system.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. The second-nearest school scheme is called the temporary alleviation measure, TAMS. It is in place currently and will be in place for the 2024-25 school year. I want to be clear in explaining what the TAMS actually means. Under that measure, transport is provided where there is a route in operation and where capacity exists for concessionary post-primary pupils who are eligible for transport to their nearest school but are attending their second-nearest school, and who applied and paid on time.

Specifically regarding primary school level, the issue has not cropped up quite as much at primary school because, generally speaking, children go to their nearest primary school, the local primary school. However, it is our ambition as part of the review I have referenced that the 3.2 km and the 4.8 km will be reduced. It will be reduced to 1 km for primary school level going forward. That will be as good as being to one's nearest or next-nearest school. What was the third question?

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I asked about the convoluted appeals system.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. The Deputy makes a fair point. If students are eligible and their first school is full, on receipt of verifying documentation the next school becomes the first school. I take the Deputy's point that people may not be sufficiently aware of that and it is something we should look at with regard to communication.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for the response. The last point is really interesting because I have come across, as I am sure colleagues have as well, parents who are not aware of this appeals system to the board of management. Neither are they aware of the situation that if a student is put on a waiting list, it is a de facto refusal. As the student is not offered a place, it is a refusal from the school and the student is then entitled to appeal to the board of management and to make a section 29 appeal. If the student gets a place in the second-nearest school or further away, he or she will not get school transport unless all this documentation is shown, but you cannot show it unless you know about it.

Finally, I put to the Minister the fact that primary school students in particular being driven to the school, mainly by their parents, is leading to massive congestion in towns at specific times. Will the Government or the Department have a look at a system whereby we would have local bus services to bring children to school? People quite often seem to want to bring the children right up to the door of the school and it leads to massive congestion, unnecessary travel and stress on parents. If we had a local school bus system in towns and villages throughout the country, it would alleviate that problem. It is all very fine being 1 km or 2 km away but in many instances it is the people living closer to the school who are driving children there and causing all these issues. It may be something the Minister will consider.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. To be fair, parents or guardians sometimes have a variety of reasons as to why it is necessary for them to bring their children to school or drive them to school. The reasons can be multifaceted and complex and parents and guardians should always have that freedom. Notwithstanding that, I know there are many parents who are very keen to be in a position to avail of the school transport system. It would make life a lot easier for them and it would also reduce traffic on the road. That is why we have this ambitious programme of more than 161,000 young people at present and by 2030 an additional 100,000 being able to avail of a school transport system that will ensure parents have greater freedom with regard to children getting to and from school, and also greater opportunity to reduce the number of cars that are on the road. However, that element of flexibility will in some small instances have to remain in place. The vast majority of young people like to travel on the bus with the rest of the community where that suits their needs.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We have an unusual situation. There are two Deputies with two questions each. One Deputy was not in the House at the time the first question came up. I propose to take them all, if possible. Deputy Canney was here on time for his questions. Is it agreed that we take his questions now? Agreed. We will then follow up with the ones that were not asked at the time.