Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his position on the adoption of qualified majority voting rather than the current requirement of unanimity on matters relating to defence at the European Council. [13142/24]

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste outline the Government's position on the increasing calls for qualified majority voting, in other words, moving away from the unanimity principle, on matters of defence at European Council level?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. It is important to state that defence and security remain national competences and will continue to require unanimity in EU decision-making. Any decision to alter these arrangements would require a change to the European treaties. Furthermore, the specific character of Ireland's security and defence policy, as set out in the protocols attached to the Lisbon treaty, is well known and respected by our fellow EU member states.

That being said, the EU faces unprecedented foreign and security policy challenges. The invasion of Ukraine and the situation in the Middle East demonstrate the need for the EU to be able to react robustly and rapidly to developments that threaten our interests and values. As a committed member of the European Union, Ireland is open to looking at ways to improve the implementation of the EU’s Common Foreign and Security Policy, CFSP, and the Common Security and Defence Policy, the latter being an integral part of the CFSP. It is important that we continue to explore ways to make the EU run as effectively as possible, delivering benefits and protections for all its citizens.

In certain limited circumstances as outlined in Article 31(2) of the Treaty on European Union, there is scope for the Council to act by QMV in CFSP matters. Ireland sees the potential value of using QMV for decision making in certain limited circumstances where it would make decision making more efficient but, crucially, where the treaties make allowance for it. However, Article 31(3) of the treaty, commonly referred to as the passerelle clause, states that the extension of the use of qualified majority voting on CFSP matters would have to be agreed unanimously by the European Council.

It is crucial that any expanded use of QMV is not seen as a way to avoid debating issues where there is no consensus. It is important that we continue to work to foster solidarity and unanimity among all 27 member states.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Many people will be concerned by that response. The removal of unanimity would itself require unanimity, but once that decision was made, it could only be reversed by the Council. A Government decision that fundamentally undermined Ireland’s position on defence matters could not be overturned by the will of the Irish people at a subsequent election. Therefore, it is crucial that all political parties be upfront and categoric in stating that, on matters of foreign affairs and defence, either Europe must speak with one voice or each member state should be entitled to articulate its own voice. The events in Gaza in recent months have crystallised the need for states like Ireland to be able to pursue independent foreign policies.

In precisely what areas would the Tánaiste countenance the removal of the unanimity principle in foreign affairs and defence matters?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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What I articulated in my reply was the factual position currently. Through our work on the Middle East, we have demonstrated that we have an independent foreign policy position and that we are working to bring other member states with us.

The Deputy has discussed the Middle East a great deal in the House, but I will bring something to his attention. At the Foreign Affairs Council, FAC, meeting approximately one month ago, 26 member states were anxious to impose sanctions on violent West Bank settlers, but such a decision would have required unanimity. The Deputy has often been critical of the EU’s failure to adopt sanctions like asset freezes and so on against West Bank settlers. He cannot have it both ways. We favour unanimity, but we should always discuss how to make the EU more efficient if there are countries like, for example, Hungary, which recently has been saying “No” for what do not seem to us to be foreign policy reasons, but for reasons of a broader agenda of leveraging its vote on other issues. That is a cause of concern.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The difficulty is that competences within the EU have been cited as the reason Ireland cannot act on matters of foreign affairs and defence. For example, how many times have propositions been laid before this House for Ireland to take meaningful action only for the response from the Tánaiste or his colleagues to be that we cannot do so because such would require movement at EU level? That is precisely because the EU has competence in these matters. In a while, we will discuss the procurement of Israeli weaponry and the Tánaiste will tell me that EU rules oblige Ireland to allow tenders from Israeli arms manufacturers.

It is important that he and his party make a clear statement. Fianna Fáil MEPs regularly abstain or vote the wrong way on amendments that would enshrine the principle of unanimity. It is important that people be clear about whether this is a principle they are willing to uphold and defend.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy, but he is way over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have noticed a trend in that the Deputy tends to try to create wedge issues or sow confusion and doubt. Defence and security remain national competences and will continue to require unanimity in EU decision-making. That is the bottom line. Trade, including the conduct of trade agreements, is an EU competence. That has been the case for a considerable time and has been advantageous to Ireland overall. The Deputy is against CETA between Europe and Canada and he has a different view on trade, in that he seems to be against the idea of free trade agreements between Europe and other countries. I am just back from Canada, where our exports in goods alone have increased from €1 billion to €4 billion as a result of CETA and our services exports have increased to €2 billion.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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You are running down the clock.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, I am not.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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You can talk about the investor court if you want to. I am asking about defence.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It requires unanimity-----

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am asking about the areas of foreign affairs and defence where you would concede the principle of-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Through the Chair, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not conceding anything.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Time is now up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As far as I am concerned, it requires unanimity. What I would have preferred would have been to be able to do more on Gaza and for 26 member states to count for something.