Christopher O'Sullivan (Cork South West, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, is here. It is disappointing that the Minister is not here. The last time I raised the early years sector under Topical Issues, the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, let me know that he would not be available. We then waited until he was available to submit this Topical Issue and he was able to take it himself. He is the most relevant person to hear the struggles that the early years sector is going through, particularly in my constituency, and especially the smaller providers. That said, I appreciate that Deputy Rabbitte is here to take this. It is a sector that she is passionate about and knows a lot about.

I acknowledge the reduction that has been achieved in the cost of childcare, the cost of sending children to pre-schools, play schools and Montessori schools. There were reductions of 25% last year and 25% this year. Parents appreciate this. I hear that on the ground. The feedback in terms of the cost is good because we know that the costs were very high. However, achieving these cost reductions means absolutely nothing unless settings and providers are there to provide early years education for our young children. Listening to the feedback from the providers in my constituency, I fear that will not be the case. They are struggling. While the Minister will say that very few, if any, of them have seen reductions under core funding, the point is that it does not take into account inflation, costs, overheads and so forth. The early years providers I meet are struggling. I met with over 20 of them in my home town in Clonakilty a number of weeks ago. They are desperate for help. They are struggling and frustrated. There were tears from some of the providers because they are simply struggling to make ends meet. I am not making this up. This is fact, it is what is happening on the ground. I feel it is especially applicable to rural areas, rural constituencies and the smaller providers such as the early childhood care and education, ECCE, providers, the part-time providers and community playschools.

We desperately need an intervention. One setting has already closed, one has confirmed it will be closing and more will follow. My fear is that in a place like West Cork, which is huge, geographically it is bigger than most counties, there will be significant gaps in terms of provision of early years education. Parents have to drive for half an hour or 45 minutes to get to the nearest pre-school. All of the savings in the cost of childcare and education will mean nothing because of these big gaps. I visited St. Mary's playschool in Enniskeane, which is an incredible setting and such a warm and friendly place to go to. This is not childcare. These kids are being educated. The kids were amazing, they were so outgoing. I was this tall, lanky, hairy guy coming in to say hello and they were so friendly and outgoing. That is the level of education and care these kids are getting. We need to give back and to show our appreciation not just to the business owners but to the staff. They are highly qualified and highly educated people but they feel completely under-appreciated and undervalued. They still have to sign on during the summer. That is how bad things are. I am looking for an intervention. A suggestion was put forward to go from three hours to four and a half hours for ECCE and three to four and a half hours for part time. That is when staff come in. They do not just come in and do the three hours. That is the suggestion. The budget unfortunately let them down. They feel let down. We need an emergency fund to keep these operators open and for the next budget we need a complete restructuring of the funding.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue and for offering the opportunity to respond. I am taking this on behalf of the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O’Gorman, who regrettably could not be here this morning and sends his apologies.

With State funding in early learning and childcare at an all-time high and set to reach €1.109 billion in 2024, the Minister and the Government have demonstrated a strong track record in this policy area. This funding delivers two years of free pre-school education for all children through the ECCE programme. It is removing barriers to accessing and participating in the programme and wider early learning and childcare services through the access and inclusion model, AIM, and the new equal participation model. It is supporting record numbers of families to offset the cost of early learning and childcare through the national childcare scheme, with the levels of support under that scheme set to increase in 2024. Through core funding, it is investing substantially in services to achieve a number of objectives including affordability, accessibility and quality, as well as sustainability. For year 3 of the scheme, the allocation will increase by €44 million or 15%, allowing further progress to be made across these objectives. There will be €9.27 million to support a 3% increase in capacity in the sector. The allocation for administration will increase to €3.21 million. The allocation for non-staff overheads will increase by €10 million to ensure the scheme continues to keep pace with cost pressures facing services. The remaining €21.49 million will be used for other developments that will improve the financial standing of services and pave the way for further negotiations to improve the pay and conditions of those working in the sector. These developments will be informed by data from year 2 of the scheme as well as the financial returns.

To support small and sessional services, the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, introduced a number of targeted supports in year 2 of core funding to improve the sustainability of these services, specifically the flat rate of up to €4,075 for sessional-only services and a minimum base rate allocation of €8,150. These measures saw the average allocation of core funding to sessional-only services increase by 32% this year. In a continued commitment to supporting these services, these targeted measures will continue to apply in the 2024-2025 programme year.

A number of safety nets are also in place to ensure all services can remain sustainable and are adequately supported. The Department oversees a case management process through which each local city and county childcare committee, CCC, and Pobal work together to assess and provide support to all services experiencing difficulties and through which the sustainability funding will be granted should the need arise. If any service has viability concerns, its representatives are encouraged to reach out to their local CCC to start availing of those supports.

Christopher O'Sullivan (Cork South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. I appreciate her reply. I expected that the first response would relate to the increase in funding. That was why I acknowledged the increase at the start of my contribution. It still does not help the small providers in my constituency.

The Minister of State mentioned the efforts to create a 3% increase in capacity. That is fine and it may work in Dublin. There may be increases in capacity in Dublin and other urban areas where the big chains are benefiting from core funding. However, I am telling the Minister of State that the capacity is going to reduce in places such as west Cork, where excellent small providers fall by the wayside.

I mentioned that I was in St. Mary's. One of the things on offer there is arts and crafts. It was incredible. One of the kids, whose name I think was Lily, offered me a lovely painting she had been working on. The providers have to pay for the paint, paper, pencils and all the arts and crafts. It is incredible what is on offer. That all comes out of their pockets, as does the money for the electricity, heating and insurance. They have to pay for Santa presents at Christmas. The money for Easter presents also comes out of their own pockets. They are struggling to survive.

The Minister of State mentioned the increase but it is not benefiting these ECCE providers. I know through the work she has done for children with disabilities that the Minister of State has a working relationship with the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman. I ask her to ask him to visit me in west Cork and let us visit two or three of the settings about which I am talking. Let him see at first hand the incredible education these kids are getting and let him listen to how these providers are struggling. I am asking the Minister of State to help me with that request. I am sure the Minister would love a visit to west Cork.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I absolutely will ask the Minister. Knowing him and how he likes the coastline and everything else, I would say he will be snapping at the Deputy's heels to visit west Cork. I will take up the issue with the Minister on that basis.

The Deputy mentioned St. Mary's and the wonderful work it does, along with the 4,200 other childcare providers throughout the country. They are phenomenal in the work they do. The Deputy has raised this issue on the record previously. I will certainly bring it back to the Minister. To be very fair to him, he has at all times listened to the exact space about which the Deputy has talked, that is, in respect of ECCE providers who provide that sessional space. That is why he brought in administrative support of approximately €4,000. It is why he set the baseline for an ECCE provider who has only five or six children attending. The baseline ensures viability that means no provider has to close. He has put in the base layer of approximately €8,000. I will bring back to him all the Deputy's concerns and will relay his request for a meeting in west Cork.