Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for being here. The last question dealt with stakeholder engagement and this topic touches on it too. I refer to the representative groups who represent taxi drivers. The Minister of State will have met many of them in his constituency, as have I, Deputy Troy and many others, in regard to many issues.

One issue that has seemed to come to the fore, mostly because of the Government's decision, rightly, during Covid-19 to extend the lifetime of a taxi vehicle, is the anomaly whereby if a licence was granted before 2009 and the vehicle was associated with that licence from 2013, then that vehicle can last for 15 years. Yet we are now asking that cars older than ten years be taken off the road. We are taking newer cars off the roads while allowing those that were in place during implementation to remain on the road. Wheelchair-accessible taxis have up to 15 years. We also now have electric taxi vehicles coming on stream. Is the arbitrary limit of ten years the right way to approach this subject in future? Would a more standards-based approach be appropriate? The changes made have to be unwound to get back to the ten-year time period gradually and doing so may create further anomalies.

Regarding the supply of wheelchair-accessible taxis or electric vehicles, in both these cases we are battling the supply chain and trying to adapt a regulatory system that matches it. I feel, therefore, that what we should be looking at is the standard of the car and the experience for the passenger, rather than an arbitrary age for a vehicle. Specifically, though, I refer to the issue of the anomaly between those cars dating from before 2010 and newer cars and the challenge of unwinding the extension of ten years up to 2024 and beyond. Has the Minister of State examined this context? How does he propose to address it?

Much of this consultation is undertaken with the taxi advisory group, TAC. The real difficulty with this is that while it purports to be representative of the industry, everybody accepts the process does not capture all the voices in the industry. Members of several of the representative bodies will not serve on it because of their experience. While the NTA governs many of the issues I dealt with previously concerning the regulations, the TAC is dealt with by legislation in the Department. It is time for us to review how we consult with representative bodies in the sector.

In some ways, we are a regulatory body for independent private contractors and so at times it is appropriate to have an arm's-length approach. Equally, though, we know that taxis are a key part of the public transport network and it is also important that we help their operators address some of the challenges being faced. I am sure the Minister of State has got the same queries into his office time after time. The bureaucracy involved around making applications for licences and grant schemes, and how these schemes interact with the applications for licences, get in the way of taxi drivers applying for them. There is often a requirement that they are off the road for several weeks. In many cases, this situation prevents taxi drivers from making the decisions we want them to make, which is to decarbonise the fleet and to have more younger people come to the industry in order that it continues to be vibrant. I ask the Minister of State, therefore, to reflect on some of these issues in respect of how we consult with representative bodies.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy McAuliffe for raising this matter. The regulation of the small public service vehicle, SPSV, industry, including enforcement and compliance in the sector, is a matter for the independent transport regulator, the NTA, under the provisions of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013 and Public Transport Act 2016.

Neither the Minister, Deputy Ryan, nor I, have a role in the day-to-day operations of the SPSV sector. The National Transport Authority, NTA, as regulator, sets the standards and requirements for the SPSV sector, which includes rules about vehicle standards, suitability of drivers, and insurance requirements. The NTA also enforces legislation which includes taxis, hackneys and limousines. Regulations made in 2010 first established a maximum permissible age of ten years for new standard taxis and hackneys. The ten-year rule was adopted in recognition of the need to strike a balance between achieving standards that offer the customer confidence, comfort, and safety and allowing industry members to operate successfully.

It is worth noting that the Irish ten-year rule for standard taxis and hackneys is not particularly onerous when compared to other jurisdictions. Wheelchair-accessible taxis and hackneys are permitted to operate up to 15 years of age. No maximum permissible age is prescribed for limousines in recognition of both the vintage nature of many of these vehicles and their generally reduced mileage. The situation to which the Deputy refers, relates to regulation 31(2) of the Taxi Regulation (Small Public Service Vehicle) Regulations 2015 whereby when standard non-wheelchair accessible taxi and hackney licences granted before 1 January 2009 had the same vehicle associated with that licence on 1 January 2013, the vehicle can be licensed up to the 15th anniversary of the date of its first registration. As a result of the emergency regulations introduced during the Covid-19 pandemic, and updated more recently in November of last year, 386 of these vehicles remain in the SPSV fleet. Therefore, they remain eligible to continue to be licensed by virtue of the time-bound regulations. During the pandemic, standard age limits for taxis and hackneys were extended on several occasions and are currently extended through to the end of 2024. This change helped to ensure no operator exited the industry based on the age of a vehicle because a replacement vehicle could not be purchased in the prevailing exceptional circumstances. All eligible vehicles were required to successfully complete both a roadworthiness and an SPSV suitability inspection every six months to ensure standards and quality remain at an appropriate level. The 2022 regulations provide for a graduated return to the ten-year age limit, with vehicles with a ten-year limit originally set to expire in 2020 or 2021 now extended to 2025, those vehicles with an original limit in 2022 or 2023 now extended to 2026, and those with an original limit in 2024 now extended to 2027. The NTA introduced these exceptional contingency regulations to provide assurance to licenceholders and to further extend the dates of expiring vehicle licences as in the NTA’s view, the capability of taxi and hackney licenceholders to secure new vehicles was affected by international developments during 2022, with lead times of one year not being uncommon. There are a few factors facing licenceholders seeking to replace end-of-life vehicles, resulting in a very constrained and limited supply of new and used vehicles for purchase. These factors include and unpredicted continuation of the global shortage of semiconductor chips and palladium, which is affected by the war in Ukraine; energy rationing in Europe; and supply to Ireland as Europe’s largest right-hand drive car market for auto manufacturers; the UK being more attractive for new car sales. A pragmatic response is required to control the impacts of matters outside of the State’s control. Therefore, that is why the NTA made these temporary exceptional contingency regulations regarding the maximum permissible vehicle age limits of vehicles due to reach their end-of-life before 2025. In the current period, there is a degree of certainty now for many licenceholders out to the end of the 2024 and beyond.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. I welcome his clarification that the anomaly exists that those cars under section 31(2) will be older and yet we will be asking newer cars to come off the road. It is an anomaly. It is a very significant purchase for many taxi drivers. The Minister of State finished his contribution by saying that it was done for the uncertainty that exists in the market. There is always going to be uncertainty around supply and around the delivery of new vehicles. As we move into an era where e-cars are available, I am not certain whether forcing people to change their cars more frequently where perhaps components of the car may need to be changed is the best environmental approach either. Will the Minister of State reflect on that and perhaps raise it with the NTA specifically?

On the broader point I raised on the interaction which we have with the industry, will the Minister of State consider how we might better interact with the industry? That might start initially with some exploratory meetings with those representative bodies. I know the Minister of State is always willing to meet people. I hope we could start a conversation with these bodies about how we can better engage with them. One example that has been raised and has causes great frustration is the whole issue of transferability, so that when somebody passes away, his or her licence can be transferred to another family member or to a third party. However, if somebody is sick for a very long period of time, or incapacitated, he or she is not able to do that. Such people then are forced to license it out or lease it out and the person who is often caring for that sick person ends up also being involved in all these business transactions in which they do not want to be involved at all. There are many different small issues that frustrate many people in the industry and which discourage people from entering it. I believe taxis are a key part of the public transport network and I ask the Minister of State to do everything he can to try to work with the stakeholders and to see how customers and taxi drivers can get a better deal.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the points made and the engagement by the Deputy. In the past number of weeks alone, I have met some taxi drivers, as we have discussed ourselves, and am happy to engage directly with others. There needs to be a strong level of engagement by the State with the representatives. I am certainly willing to engage with them and we can organise that.

As I have said, before introducing regulations and vehicle age limits, the NTA publishes its proposals for public consultation for a one-month period. Any views received are considered before new regulations are introduced. As a Department, we have been supportive of the SPSV industry during the pandemic, as I have said, and this has ensuring that no one has left the industry due to his or her inability to upgrade his or her end of life vehicle due to the unavailability of a replacement vehicle. The NTA also introduced a small public service vehicle regulation in 2021, the purpose of which was to double the period that taxi, hackney and limousine licences may rest in inactive status after expiry, prior to losing the capacity to be replaced, which is a permanent amendment to regulation 17. The situation to which the Deputy refers relates to a small number of vehicles in the context of the ten-year age limit. As well as having a vehicle age extension, licenceholders have that opportunity in the context of the electric public service vehicle, eSPSV, grants which are also there. Some 1,779 grants have been paid between the beginning of the scheme in 2018 and 1 September 2023, with associated funding of more than €32 million, which shows a degree of momentum. We can see it here and elsewhere that there is an encouraging number of electric vehicles now translating into the fleet. On the point of engagement, it is important that the voice of taxi drivers is heard in the context of policy discussions and we will try to strengthen that.